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Cabela's in Hazelwood

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jayspapa

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Before anyone gets to cocky about their response to exhstd , you might want to check the open carry map on this very forum.;)

There are places that will get you in hot water , but , itisn't forbidden state wide to open carry.
 
Broondog

Broondog

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Ste. Gen County, MO, , USA
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jayspapa wrote:
Before anyone gets to cocky about their response to exhstd , you might want to check the open carry map on this very forum.;)

There are places that will get you in hot water , but , itisn't forbidden state wide to open carry.
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from his first post he came off as 'this is the way it is, end of story' when in fact we all know this to be untrue. speaking for myself, i was merely trying to correct the misinformation that he was fed. he came in here as a know it all and quite simply got trounced upon. i would do the same thing again, whether here or face to face.

i am well aware of where i can and cannot OC legally in my area. in fact i carry printouts of pertinent municipal codes in my truck for presentation to any LEO who is determined to tell me that i am in the wrong. i even have one printed that has the ordinance against OC for comparison.

being ignorant of the law is what gets one into hot water. hopefully HB2150 will get the traction needed to move forward and greatly simplify things.
 
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USMC-GREYWOLF

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I work in law enforcement as well as instruct CCW part time. "Greywolfservices.com" I have to keep up with the laws. It's good that you carry the ord's with you because not all officer's are aware of them. There are a lot of law's to keep up with and they change every August.

Depending on the situation and how your information is presented to the officer will in fact determine the duration of your time together. Don't be the guy to that throws the paper at the officer saying, "Look- I told you so". Just use common since. He has a job to do. Don't make it more difficult for him (and you).

I am not saying that you act in this manner, I am throwing this out for everyone who is reading this.

Another comment on open carry:

It's nice to have this option, but, use that gray matter between your ears. If you decide to walk down the streets of downtown St. Louis with your weapon on your side in plain view- Don't do it alone. As always, there is safety in numbers. It will appear to the courts that you were looking for a fight. (Vigilante style).

If you have to remove your weapon from its holster to resolve an issue, whether you fired it or not, call the police and explain what had happened. If the other party leaves, get a good description of them, direction of travel or vehicle and license number.

If you don't call, they will. They will make you out as being the bad guy with the gun. We deal with this a lot. It does happen.

Have to run for now. I will throw in another 2 cents when I get a chance. Remember, Practice - Practice - Practice!
 
A

Article1section23

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USMC-GREYWOLF wrote:
I work in law enforcement as well as instruct CCW part time. "Greywolfservices.com" I have to keep up with the laws. It's good that you carry the ord's with you because not all officer's are aware of them. There are a lot of law's to keep up with and they change every August.

Depending on the situation and how your information is presented to the officer will in fact determine the duration of your time together. Don't be the guy to that throws the paper at the officer saying, "Look- I told you so". Just use common since. He has a job to do. Don't make it more difficult for him (and you).

I am not saying that you act in this manner, I am throwing this out for everyone who is reading this.

Another comment on open carry:

It's nice to have this option, but, use that gray matter between your ears. If you decide to walk down the streets of downtown St. Louis with your weapon on your side in plain view- Don't do it alone. As always, there is safety in numbers. It will appear to the courts that you were looking for a fight. (Vigilante style).

If you have to remove your weapon from its holster to resolve an issue, whether you fired it or not, call the police and explain what had happened. If the other party leaves, get a good description of them, direction of travel or vehicle and license number.

If you don't call, they will. They will make you out as being the bad guy with the gun. We deal with this a lot. It does happen.

Have to run for now. I will throw in another 2 cents when I get a chance. Remember, Practice - Practice - Practice!
Click to expand...

Hey Grey,

There are a couple of us on this board in LE. You will seedifferent opinion's on OC and CCW.You can tell that by the different post on thissite. Do you hold a commission with a department?I like your site and use to teach ccw classes myself.


One of the things about this site, is people post case law or statue to support their opinion's. I'm not sure were you get the idea that a court will say your a vigilante for carrying a gun?
 
J

jayspapa

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Broondog , my post was not directed towards you. Several made comments that could have led exhstd to believe he could carry openly anywhere in Mo.

We all know that isn't true either .

Many people take to heart what they are told , or taught as is the case here , and do no further research on their own . They think there is no way aninstructor of a course , or a leo could be wrong about something . They are human just as we are and do make mistakes .

exhstd , typeing in all capitol letters is a sign of shouting on a forum . If you had started your post with >>> I was taught <<<.....you would have found things a little warmer towards you I think.
 
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USMC-GREYWOLF

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I try to look at things through liberal eyes when dealing with the court system. My comment about the vigilante was opinionated. I don't have case studies at hand to prove my statement. If you happen to know any defense attorneys, ask them what works. I also believe you shouldn't draw unnecessary attention towards yourself. We can play the - what if's- all day long and never get it write. You will most likely never know the judge and jury when you have to defend your actions in court.
 
Broondog

Broondog

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jayspapa wrote:
Broondog , my post was not directed towards you. Several made comments that could have led exhstd to believe he could carry openly anywhere in Mo.

We all know that isn't true either .

Many people take to heart what they are told , or taught as is the case here , and do no further research on their own . They think there is no way aninstructor of a course , or a leo could be wrong about something . They are human just as we are and do make mistakes .
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yeah, i know. but i was one of the 'several' so i felt a response was in order. :)

and you are right, some folks will believe anything and it's those folks who will get 'taken' many times until they learn. it's a shame but it does happen that way.


GREYWOLF.....i hear ya on the use of tact when it comes to encounters with a LEO no matter what the situation. a bad attitude or the like will not end well for us or do our cause any good. but it never hurts to have the facts on hand though, even if they never need to be used.

luckily for me the LEO's in my area are more interested in what i have vs why i have it. i got a brandishing call on me once (checking out my newly purchased 30.06 rifle while in the truck) and when the cop caught up with me he asked a couple of questions, got the right answers and then asked me if he could check it out too. i'm in the country so the cops around here don't think twice about stuff like that.....mostly.
 
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USMC-GREYWOLF

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Broondog-

You are correct. The attitudes are different in the "country". People who carry weapons need to remember this when traveling from the country to the city. There are a lot people in the city areas suffering from, "Hoplophobia", an unnatural fear of weapons. I run into these people all the time. There are quit a few that will turn and see the light after you talk to them about defending themselves from bodily harm or death - or a loved one. This is more prominent in the city because they feel the police will get there instantly to protect them when needed. They normally get there after the fact - to do the report and record what occurred.

Brandishing- People take advantage of this word a lot and will call the police if they see a weapon in a holster or lying on the front seat. They don't realize that brandishing is having a weapon in your hands and pointing it directly towards someone. Of course LE will get there a littler quicker if they are told someone is being held at gun point and these people know that as well. Sometimes, people just don't know the law and refer to the TV and movies for all their knowledge. ....
 
Richieg150

Richieg150

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Just because you can get certified to teach a CCW class,doesnt make you aware of gun laws.I think in order to get a CCW Instructor liscense,you should be forced to know the guns laws in the state where you are teaching.I have talked to a couple other instructors of CCW,and they were IGNORANT of open carry of anykind.They were BRAINWASHED with the same stuff,saying it was illegal unless you had a CCW permit.I would go a far to say that if a CCW instructor doesnt know the applicable gun laws where they teach and give FALSE information,they should loose their instructor liscenses.Its called BEING ACCOUNTABLE,I know in this age NOBODY thinks they are accountable for anything,but making them accountable for FALSE information,would force them to LEARN what they are already SUPPOSED to know.......in my opinion
 
mFonz77

mFonz77

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Sierra Vista, AZ
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Unfortunately if you ask 10 different people about the laws you will probably get 10 different responses. Ultimately it is up to YOU, the individual, to know the laws of the places where you will be carrying.

For the record, Missouri does not have any state statutes prohibiting OC, but they also do not have any state statutes prohibiting political subdivisions (aka cities) from passing their own laws prohibiting OC. Many cities in Missouri have taken it upon themselves to pass such ordinances, and for that reason it can make open carrying a real PITA when traveling around the state.

CCW does enjoy statewide preemption.
 
A

Article1section23

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mFonz77 wrote:
Unfortunately if you ask 10 different people about the laws you will probably get 10 different responses. Ultimately it is up to YOU, the individual, to know the laws of the places where you will be carrying.

For the record, Missouri does not have any state statutes prohibiting OC, but they also do not have any state statutes prohibiting political subdivisions (aka cities) from passing their own laws prohibiting OC. Many cities in Missouri have taken it upon themselves to pass such ordinances, and for that reason it can make open carrying a real PITA when traveling around the state.

CCW does enjoy statewide preemption.
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mFonz,

Missouri does have statutes prohibiting OC. 571.030 1. (8) and I've posted others on another thread.

Just want to point out a technical aspect to the rest of your statement. 21.750 shows that P.S's can only REGULATE, the fact they prohibit is a violation of that statue.

I'm hoping nobody gets arrested before we get HB 2150 passed. I know its just a matter of time.
 
A

Article1section23

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Richieg150 wrote:
Just because you can get certified to teach a CCW class,doesnt make you aware of gun laws.I think in order to get a CCW Instructor liscense,you should be forced to know the guns laws in the state where you are teaching.I have talked to a couple other instructors of CCW,and they were IGNORANT of open carry of anykind.They were BRAINWASHED with the same stuff,saying it was illegal unless you had a CCW permit.I would go a far to say that if a CCW instructor doesnt know the applicable gun laws where they teach and give FALSE information,they should loose their instructor liscenses.Its called BEING ACCOUNTABLE,I know in this age NOBODY thinks they are accountable for anything,but making them accountable for FALSE information,would force them to LEARN what they are already SUPPOSED to know.......in my opinion
Click to expand...
Richieg,

Ya, some of them don't know or that is what they were told and they just go with it. Maybe they really don't want people to OC. Who cares? Those that do will seek out the info and educate themselves. Remember, somebody can pass a NRA course and teach the class...we all know the NRA doesn't go around supporting OC.
 
mFonz77

mFonz77

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Shawn, 571.030 1. (8) only prohibits OC in various places as defined by legislature (which are incidentally the same for CC). It does not prohibit OC statewide. That was what I was referring to. I apologize for any lacking semantics.
 
A

Article1section23

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mFonz77 wrote:
Shawn, 571.030 1. (8) only prohibits OC in various places as defined by legislature (which are incidentally the same for CC). It does not prohibit OC statewide.
Click to expand...


mFonz,

I didn't say it did, what I did, was correct you in saying they didn't prohibit it in a state statue. Perhaps you meant statewide,but that is not what you wrote.
 
mFonz77

mFonz77

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Jesus H., people on this board get so up in a twist. To be clear: Arizona has a statewide law preempting any political subdivision from regulating or prohibiting open carry. Missouri does not have any such language, but they also don't have "preemptive" language defining a penalty for it either, unless it's in one of those enumerated places like churches, schools, etc...
 
A

Article1section23

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mFonz77 wrote:
Jesus H., people on this board get so up in a twist. To be clear: Arizona has a statewide law preempting any political subdivision from regulating or prohibiting open carry. Missouri does not have any such language, but they also don't have "preemptive" language defining a penalty for it either, unless it's in one of those enumerated places like churches, schools, etc...
Click to expand...

mFonz,

Its not that, people come on here to learn. One of the things people need to do is be clear about what it is they are talking about. The law is technical and specific.

21.750 (3): Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, RSMo, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243, RSMo.

When you have a chance, read HB 2150. Its my latest version I've got in the legislature.
 
deepdiver

deepdiver

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USMC-GREYWOLF wrote:
Hello there.
To answer any questions and clear up any misunderstandings please refer to RSMo chapters 563 and 571. ( You can locate these at -http://WWW.MO.GOV) These are the laws concerning CCW and weapons offenses in the state of MO. MO is an open carry state, period.

snip
Click to expand...
Just to avoid any confusion for newbies, it is NOT "just an open carry, period" as stated previously as there is no state preemption and numerous municipalities have prohibitions on OC. Vehicle carry and CC is preempted.
 
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