View Poll Results: Should we start a new gun advocacy group or work with existing groups?

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  • Start a new group.

    17 70.83%
  • Join GRNC.

    6 25.00%
  • Join NCRPA.

    0 0%
  • I'm not a joiner.

    1 4.17%
  • I have another idea and will explain.

    0 0%
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Thread: NC Firearms advocacy

  1. #1
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    Folks - this came up last night at my table, we were talking again about GRNC and NC gun rights. As far as I know, we have two groups currently in NC (the NCRPA and GRNC) who are out there working for our gun rights. The general consensus is that GRNC is not very active. I don't know much about NCRPA, so I don't know if they are very active and if they have common interests with us.

    What we were talking about is perhaps the need to form a 2A group that is active, or perhaps joining an existing group and lighting a fire. In either case, we would need to be very active and need a decent bit of support. We had over 20 open carriers last night in Jacksonville, there are many more who I've seen post here just in Eastern NC, so I know we have enough carriers across the state to get some momentum.

    If we were to start another group, I would personally want to model it after one of the more successful associations that we see on here, like the VA folks.

    Tell me what you think.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    It seems that GRNC is more in line with our primary concern--self defense--whereas the other group seems to be more "sportsman" related.

    With that in mind, perhaps we should approach GRNC with a very clear and focused "activist" attitude. I think that if we had a mess of folks from here join GRNC and start volunteering to do things--man tables at gun shows, coordinate calling campaigns for our Reps, develop brochures and PR-related materials--it could move GRNC into a more proactive mode.

    I think a LOT of the reason why GRNC is much less active and effective than a group like VCDL is MONEY and TIME. Folks here in NC seem to not have as much spare time to devote to activism, and I think we ALL know there is a LOT more money in VA than in NC. Since we don't have the time or financial resources here in NC that they have in VA, we're going to have to try and spread out the workload and be VERY focused to get anything done.

    Also, you need to remember that both the NRA and GOA have their headquarters in Northern VA (Fairfax an Springfield) and they are both big enough organizations to have their own offices. This gives them a LOT more "visibility" tan little volunteer-only groupas like GRNC. We're working at a HUGE disadvantage here in NC, and the only way were going to be successful is to just dive in as active, engaged citizens.

    NC's Legal, Law Enforcement, and legislative systems are tightly intertwined, and have a massive historical legacy as a "good old boys" network. There are long-standing attitudes of racism and classism with regards to firearms ownership and carry here in NC, and the Civil Rights movement has essentially forgotten NC and moved on to more high profile areas like DC and NY. Until the Gun Rights movement can bring large numbers of law-abiding minority members, and change the attitudes of the "Boss Hoggs" in our LEAs and in the General Aseembly, we wil continue to be ineffective.

    It's all about public perception. Whe the general public realizes that gun control laws ONLY punish law-abiding citizens, and when they realize that people just like them (poor, or black, or middle-class, or single moms, or grandfathers) have the HUMAN RIGHT to SELF DEFENSE, and when they realize that the police are NOT tasked with providing fo rpersonal security (in fact their ONLY mandate is to preserve the safety of the Corporation that employs them--their City Government==even if that means stepping all over individual Civil Rights in direct violation of the US and NC Constitutions!) We will continue to be ineffectual.

    I've volunteered with GRNC to help them design some brochures and handouts. I'll be working with their directors over the next few months to come up with some new, more modern, eye-catching materials that they can distribute. It's a TINY step, but it's something...

    So what it boils down to is that I am, in fact, advocating a "takeover" of GRNC by people who ARE politically active, motivated, and actively engaged in the daily PRACTICE of gun rights activities.

    If you carry, you should be a volunteer with a group like GRNC.

    The ball won't start rolling unless WE push it ourselves...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  3. #3
    Regular Member Duramax's Avatar
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    I open carry on a regular basis and would be happy to help out! I say lets get teh ball rolling!
    I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people until thier children wake up homeless on the continent thier fathers conquered! Thomas Jefferson - 1802

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    I guess we are at a disadvantage to some extent, but I think we can make more of a difference than what is happening now. I would like to pick a handful of issues and focus on working through them. I don't want to say "one at a time", because I know that often we're waiting on other people and events, but I would like to work on some core issues we have in NC, like establishments that serve alcohol and pistol permitting. I would also like to work on some local level advocacy and law enforcement education.

    I am totally up for a "friendly takeover" of GRNC by open carry advocates and active members. I think there are tremendous advantages to working under an existing advocacy group. I do seem to recall GRNC having some issues with the NRA though, so I do worry a little bit about two black sheep of the gun world coming together...

  5. #5
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    I would be willing to get involved with whatever we could come up with. I voted for GRNC but now thatI think about it perhaps a new organization would be better. People that have already heard of GRNC and decided not to join would then have another choice and another decision to make for themselves

  6. #6
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    I vote start a new group. GRNC is old, antiquated and has a bad name already. I don’t like the nameeither. How about NCGRA (NC Gun Rights Association). Something like that. "Grass roots" just doesn’t do much for them.

  7. #7
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    I think perhaps if we want to start a new group, we might follow the model of VCDL, and call it NCCDL. This has several advantages:

    1) it associates us with an established, successful org in the minds of the people
    2) We could work with, and use many of VCDL's resources, ideas, and working models,
    3) because of the subliminal association with other XX-CDL orgs, it makes our numbers look bigger, and therefore more influential
    4) it stresses "Defense" and "Citizenship". It does not bring any sorts of negative connotations of "guns" (which scares the heck out of the media) or "grass roots" (which scares the HECK out of elected officials) into the discussion.

    That's my position, and I'm sticking to it...

    I'm going to have a LOT more free time between May and September this year, so I think I can volunteer to "take point" on coordinating with VCDL if this is something we REALLY want to do. Or I could "take point" on getting us to sort of "move in" and leverage GRNC into a more effective org if we decide to take that route...

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  8. #8
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    Sounds great dreamer. So where do we start. Do we need to register somewhere? We need a website. Costs? See if Virgina's group will help us with some pointers or something else.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I've contacted with Phil at VCDL, but I haven't really pursued this idea with him. He knows that we need SOMETHING here, and we spoke briefly about it at the OC Dinner in Richmond last month...

    I'll write him an email later this week.

    Right now, I'm busting my butt for Mid-Terms, and I've got a mountain of school stuff to deal with. After Wednesday, I'll have more free time to address this...


    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  10. #10
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    We'll probably have to file articles of incorporation and write a constitution so that we can become a non-profit, if we want to go that route. I like the idea of modeling after VCDL and like the NCCDL acronym. Dreamer is ahead of me, because I had also thought that we should get in touch with the folks running VCDL if we wanted to go new-group route.

  11. #11
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    I'm in for NCCDL. I will have limited time to put into it, but I will do all that I can.

    Modeling this thing after VA {my beloved home state} is probably a really good start toward getting some things done.

    Let me know what I can do!

    Dreamer: I, like you, am in Greenville on a regular basis, so if you need my help in person once in a while I can do that as well.

  12. #12
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    I bought the websites!

    Guys,

    I am all for starting a new group and really lean toward modeling after vcdl.org. Also, being in the tech industry as long as I have, one thing I have learned is if you want a website name grab it before someone else knows you want it.

    That being said, I bought nccdl.org and nccdl.com. I have no personal interest in hording or selling these sites but rather prevention of such.

    I am offering these sites to us as a group free of charge. We will need to work out graphic designs, hosting plans and lots of other details but at least the domain names are ours to use free and clear!!!:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

    Just to make it clear, I have bought these domains to protect them for our use.

    Next steps please?

    Filing with the state to form the group? Anyone know what that entails?

    Graphics design help (nudge nudge Dreamer )

    Hell, I will even foot the bill for hosting when we are ready for a live web site.

    I am excited!!!! :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

    Let's roll.


  13. #13
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    Good move!I hope somethingmaterializes from this idea.

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    For folks who voted Join GRNC, are you at all on-board with a new group? I think we need somewhat of a consensus if we're going to move on this. I would like to see 15+ active members of whatever group we decide on. Anything less and we can probably count out getting anything done.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I'll do what I can, but I'm jammed up time-wise for pretty much the rest of this week, with mid-terms...

    Next week is "spring break". I'll try and get something knocked out then...

    I'll get in touch with Phil Van Cleef at VCDL this weekend if I can, and see if he can offer any help.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  16. #16
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    I'm a member of GRNC and it's very unorganized and inactive. All I have ever got from them is one or two newsletters. I also get the emails that ask you to call or email your legislators but that's it. I don't think they really do anything. So,I'm all for starting up the NCCDL. The only thing is that it needs to be more of a "no-compromises" group like GOA.

    On a sort of related but unrelated note, GOA is wanting to get Alaska carry reform started in other states this year.
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

    God's Plan of Salvation

  17. #17
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    Count me in, whichever route is taken.

  18. #18
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    glockaholic wrote:
    Count me in, whichever route is taken.
    +1

    I am in for whatever we are going to do. Anything to help move the cause forward.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    Scrub wrote:
    glockaholic wrote:
    Count me in, whichever route is taken.
    +1

    I am in for whatever we are going to do. Anything to help move the cause forward.
    Same here. I joined GRNC after talking to the guys at their table at the recent Greensboro Gun Show, but I'm in agreement with glockaholic & Scrub.
    Carry on!

  20. #20
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    I admit to being a long time lurker on this site. This topic motivated me to actually register.

    I admire VCDL and have wished for a similar group in our state. Count me in for the effort. I look forward to being able to assist as required.

    Good move by Bebog. Even if this goes nowhere, I like his style.

  21. #21
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    Hey Lunkhead - I see you're in Jacksonville, it appears that we've got a pretty strong following out here. Glad you came aboard.

    It looks like we have sufficient interest to move along with this, I'm looking forward to hearing what Phil has to say to Dreamer. I'm going to try to get together what we need to form a non-profit. I believe incorporating will be the first step we need to take here.

  22. #22
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    Two updates, the first one being a bit off-topic.

    I am now posting as bebog but used to be hittman2. I contacted John and explained that when I first registered I used hittman2 as I have for over 10 years now at any website I sign up as. It is a combination of 2 last names and nothing more. However, with this being a firearms related site, it may be taken wrong as in Hit-man. Some people can be really stupid and I can see now comments from anti's like "yea those gun fanatics even have a member claiming to be a hit-man". With the way I hope the nccdl.org thought will take off and bring in attention, I really needed to change my username before any unwanted negative attention is brought upon OCDO over something like a username. (See, it is somewhat on topic ) He was gracious enough to help me out and I am now bebog (behind every blade of grass)

    Now, directly on topic. I looked into filing for a non-profit which I am fairly sure is how vcdl.org is organized. I have started 2 small businesses myself and found that the process is very similar for a non-profit. We must file for the following:

    1. An available business name (NCCDL and North Carolina Citizen Defense League are available) We would pick one and file DBA's for any other names.
    2. File for articles of incorporation with $60 fee.
    3. Must create by-laws which must be kept at the corporation's principle place of business (this brings up a major discussion point at many levels)
    4. Create and maintain record books (any CPA's on the forum)\
    5. File for EIN (employer identification number) from the feds and the state (basically a taxpayer ID number)
    6. Apply for tax exemption status.
    7. Apply for solicitation license before soliciting any donations.

    There are many smaller details being glossed over but those are the major steps to take in getting state and fed recognition. Like I said before, there are some differences but most of these steps are the same for starting any small business and I have been through it with 2 LLC's.

    Some other major details are things like a banking institution, company board, director, place of business (a real biggie from a cost standpoint), and a CPA (a priority must have) and a business lawyer (highly suggested but not a must have at first)

    If I may, I would like to suggest the following for comment:

    1. Let's start off by contacting the director of VCDL and see if he will give us guidance. What I would love to ask is if he is willing to sit in on a conference call for us all to participate. I have conference services that will handle up to 100 attendants with no charge. We could post the info here on when and how to attend. Dreamer mentioned talking to him this weekend and I am certainly not shy about calling and seeing if we can setup something (Dreamer, what say you? I would like to talk with you first since I don't want us to be coming at him from all directions and overwhelming him.)
    2. Depending on how the first contact goes with the VCDL director, I would propose a meeting offering anyone who can to attend and help with setting up the organization. We can discuss mission statements, what we really want to focus our efforts toward as an organization, find out what talents are among us regarding CPA's, anyone with space for rent, attorneys, etc.
    3. Depending on that meeting, move forward with officially setting up the organization with state and fed filings.

    I will just stop here for now and wait for comments. Does this sound like a good track to take?


  23. #23
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    That is inline with what I found also. Although, I don't think we need to get a solicitor's license first, unless we expect to get $25,000 or pay a lawyer with it. That will allow us to quickly take in memberships while the ink is drying. I think we need to take this to a new thread if we're all decided to make the NCCDL a go, I'll start one up.

  24. #24
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    Thank you CarryOpen!

    **edited due to mistype.....

  25. #25
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    North Carolina has needed this (a version of the VCDL) for some time.

    However, will this action alienate the GRNC & NCRPA members? Don't we need everyone who is adamant on this situation?

    A perfect world situation would dissolve both of these groups into one bigger group. An alternative would be to make these other groups brother or sister factions in association with the new NCCDL.

    It would be nice for this group to get political in backing proven candidates who are for our rights as North Carolina citizens and US Citizens.

    Then and only then can we begin breaking old group for getting our rights (universal open carry, college carry, carry in parks, bars, public business carry, castle defense, state property carry [without written or implicit/personal permission] self-defense brandishing immunity, etc.) back from the liberal and pseudo-republican power brokers.

    I would like to see a NCCDL backed candidates (or bills written by NCCDL members) make it into law and maybe eventually into the 4th state constitutional revision (heck, man... we've had three already, WHY NOT a fourth?)
    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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