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Thread: should have had a gun

  1. #1
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    This caught my eye in the paper today.

    You take a life, you give your life," said Terry Bingham, 36, of Shelby Township. His brother, David Bingham, 39, was robbed at a gas station in Pontiac in July 2005 by Christopher Jackson, then 17. As Bingham stood inside the gas station convenience store calling 911, Jackson returned and fatally shot him. Jackson, who taunted Bingham's family at his sentencing, is serving life in prison without parole. "He should never see the sunlight again," Terry Bingham said.


    Should have had a gun. I guess this is what would always happen in a criminal only gun society.

    Full article

    http://freep.com/article/20100228/NE...second-chance?
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    My employer requires us to sign an agreement not to use or carry any weapon. I'm not allowed to fight back in any manner, only cooperate. They say it's for MY safety...

    I choose to break the company policy on a daily basis. I figure I might loose my job the next day, but at least I'll be alive to find another one.

  3. #3
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    +1

    if your money is worth more than your life, then wouldnt it be easier to just rob a bank?

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    +1

    if your money is worth more than your life, then wouldnt it be easier to just rob a bank?
    what the hell does this question even mean? :what:?
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Simple. If you leave your gun at home so you can keep your job, because your boss or company policy doesnt like it, then you have indicated that your paycheck is more valuable than your freedom and/or your life. therefore, it would be easier, less time consuming, and it likely pays better to just rob a bank.

    Its just a way to put things back into perspective.

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    +1

    if your money is worth more than your life, then wouldn't it be easier to just rob a bank?
    Well said.

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    Should never fight over property. Someone wants money, give it to them. They decide to take your life, defend it.

    IndianaBoy79 wrote:
    My employer requires us to sign an agreement not to use or carry any weapon. I'm not allowed to fight back in any manner, only cooperate. They say it's for MY safety...

    I choose to break the company policy on a daily basis. I figure I might loose my job the next day, but at least I'll be alive to find another one.

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    Pace wrote:
    [quote][b]Should never fight over property. Someone wants money, give it to them. They decide to take your life, defend it.[quote]

    I don't think fighting for property is worth it either, well it depends on the amount or sentimental value. BUT and this is a BIG BUT, if someone attempts to rob me at gunpoint, it no longer becomes about property, it's a life or death matter. The perp might not want to kill you, but why wait to see? The perp could say, "give me your money or I'll kill you." Then after you give him your money(to safe your life, or so you thought), he shoots you anyway. That exact thing happened to my uncle a few years back but thankfully no major organs were hit.

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    Pace. What is with you and preaching about fighting for property? I have read other posts of yours and it's the same thing. Let me try to explain where I believe most of us are coming from...

    We don't carry to protect property...

    ...and...

    If someone has a gun and is threatening you, your life is already in danger.


    It seems as though you believe that your life isn't in danger until the BG has already put a bullet in the air. This isn't the movies. You can't dodge bullets, you can't do a spin kick flip and land behind a gum ball machine while he unloads, and grabbing the gun to disarm him is a really bad idea that will most likely get you shot. I don't care what he's there for, he has a gun, he is threatening you with it, your life is in danger. Seems like a fairly simple concept here.

    Please, please stop preaching to everyone about property and what they should or shouldn't fight for. You do what you see fit, I'll shoot the guy with a gun pointed at me. Can you drop it now?

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    Simple. If you leave your gun at home so you can keep your job, because your boss or company policy doesnt like it, then you have indicated that your paycheck is more valuable than your freedom and/or your life. therefore, it would be easier, less time consuming, and it likely pays better to just rob a bank.

    Its just a way to put things back into perspective.
    Well put.

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    Your black and white claims show a lack of knowledge what average americans have to go through in order to support themselves. Asking them to no work, because they can't carry a gun is ridiculous. I'm happy you can afford to do that, but many of us have to feed our kids and support our family.

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    Pace wrote:
    Are you just making things up because you want to make a point? I never said that if your life is in danger you shouldn't do anything. I said that property isn't worth taking anyone's life, nor getting into a fight. If a person is pointing a gun at you, you better consider it life threatening.

    However, if someone comes into a store, tells you to give them money, there are legal implications if you just shoot them in most states, including not being in immediate danger. This applies to police officers and civilians.

    You can think whatever you want, spout your theories and nonsense, but this forum is to talk about lawful open carry, not about guys with guns trying to stop ever robbery because they have a gun.

    What about what I said was theories and nonsense? I can only assume that the gentleman posting here violates his companies policies because he figures a man robbing the store is going to be carrying a gun. With that assumption, he would not be fighting for property, but his life.

    Robber w/gun = Life threat

    Maybe Indiana boy would never DREAM of fighting for property. But a robber with a gun WOULD. All they care about is property because they put their lives, AND OURS, on the line to get it. That's the point I am trying to make. Just because someone would shoot a robber does NOT mean they are fighting for property. If the robber has a gun, it IMMEDIATELY becomes a fight for life. What about that is theories or nonsense?


    One more thing...
    There are more jobs to find out there. If you give up your rights to find work, that's sad. There are other places to make money. This is obviously a much more serious issue to other people here than it is to you. Don't bash us because you don't agree.

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    There are very, very few employers that allow employees to carry on the job.

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    Pace wrote:
    There are very, very few employers that allow employees to carry on the job.
    Mine does.

    In fact she requires it.

    Oh, and I am a simple computer geek
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
    --Semper Fi--

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    my employer requires carry too................oh, wait a minute, i own the place.

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    This isn't the movies. You can't dodge bullets, you can't do a spin kick flip and land behind a gum ball machine while he unloads,
    Speak for yourself!
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    @ Jeremy - hahaha! I want you on my side

    @Pace - I think there are a lot more employers that wouldn't care than you think, and that's not the main point I was trying to make anyway which you seemed to forget about after my logical argument. It seems as though you are more worried about whether or not someone if fighting over property than thinking about the fact that this situation is based on a robber having a gun. No matter what the clerks moral standings are, if he has a gun on him, his life is in danger.

    Why would you assume he was fighting over property?

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    @Pace -- You know, I have read what you said, and have to say point blank that life is more important than money. That family is now without a father and husband because of a punk that was willing to kill over what you call property. You might not care enough about your life, to CC at work, to get around a stupid rule like no guns but what about your family? Do you want to leave them to carry on without you just cause that paycheck was more important to you than protecting yourself?

    I have worked in a gas station alone, 5 am - 3 pm and it is scary to do when you only have the cameras and you know the cops are too far away to help. I wished I could have had a gun but that was in California - SF Bay Area-- and that state isnt gun friendly, imo, at all.

    Your opinon is allowed from what I have seen here, but really do you have to bash others opinons? You would rather stand there and watch a BG take your car? your valuables? hurt your wife/gf/family? Then use your gun.. fine.. but dont insult the ones of us that believe in our right to protect ourselves.


    *looks around*


    Sorry, the newbie will be quiet now... :?

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    Archsgurl wrote:
    @Pace -- You know, I have read what you said, and have to say point blank that life is more important than money. That family is now without a father and husband because of a punk that was willing to kill over what you call property. You might not care enough about your life, to CC at work, to get around a stupid rule like no guns but what about your family? Do you want to leave them to carry on without you just cause that paycheck was more important to you than protecting yourself?

    I have worked in a gas station alone, 5 am - 3 pm and it is scary to do when you only have the cameras and you know the cops are too far away to help. I wished I could have had a gun but that was in California - SF Bay Area-- and that state isnt gun friendly, imo, at all.

    Your opinon is allowed from what I have seen here, but really do you have to bash others opinons? You would rather stand there and watch a BG take your car? your valuables? hurt your wife/gf/family? Then use your gun.. fine.. but dont insult the ones of us that believe in our right to protect ourselves.


    *looks around*


    Sorry, the newbie will be quiet now... :?
    I think the newbie should speak up more and on other threads. Good point. Don't know if that means much coming from a newbie or not

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    Mr.FiredUp wrote:
    Archsgurl wrote:
    @Pace -- You know, I have read what you said, and have to say point blank that life is more important than money. That family is now without a father and husband because of a punk that was willing to kill over what you call property. You might not care enough about your life, to CC at work, to get around a stupid rule like no guns but what about your family? Do you want to leave them to carry on without you just cause that paycheck was more important to you than protecting yourself?

    I have worked in a gas station alone, 5 am - 3 pm and it is scary to do when you only have the cameras and you know the cops are too far away to help. I wished I could have had a gun but that was in California - SF Bay Area-- and that state isnt gun friendly, imo, at all.

    Your opinon is allowed from what I have seen here, but really do you have to bash others opinons? You would rather stand there and watch a BG take your car? your valuables? hurt your wife/gf/family? Then use your gun.. fine.. but dont insult the ones of us that believe in our right to protect ourselves.


    *looks around*


    Sorry, the newbie will be quiet now... :?
    I think the newbie should speak up more and on other threads. Good point. Don't know if that means much coming from a newbie or not
    Thanks I think. Well I will at least take that as a compliment. I just cant stand bashing just because we have a different point of view. Unless you have been in a situation where that CC or OC gun has saved you from harm, you really have no right, imo, of bashing others who would use their gun to protect the ones they love.

    Also why bash on a pro gun carry forum? If you dont want to carry, then why come here? We already have made the decision to carry and you bashing is only going to get you called a troll or a Brady Brat or something else that means Anti gun.

    [you is used generally and doesnt mean anyone specific..... but if the shoe fits... :P]

  21. #21
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    I understand where you coming from.

    There are obviously different situations. For example, if you see someone breaking into a car, in almost all jurisdictions it would be illegal for you to draw a weapon to prevent them from taking the car. It would also be illegal for a police officer to do so.

    If someone walks into a shop and demands money, and you draw your weapon and shoot him, you will go to jail. You had no right to take a life legally (or ethically in my opinion) as you were not in danger. The law requires that you are in immediate danger of life of limb in most jurisdictions.

    What if the person points a gun at you? You are then in immediate danger, you have every right to defend yourself. What if he has a gun in his hand and doesn't point at you? Good question (glad I asked). That is a hard case, but in most juristictions at that point he is posing an immediate danger...

    What about the home? That is a bit different. There is an assumption if someone is actively engaged in entering your home that they may be very well wanting to do harm. It's a lot different than, as I said, if you are driving by your house and see someone ravishing your garden gnome.

    I am referring to purely defending your property. You do not have a right legally, or otherwise in just defending your property, to use a gun. You will go to jail, and most likely be convicted.

    I would also recognize that even in the case of you feeling threatened, you need to be smart, look at the situation. If there is a guy pointing a gun at you, and you decide to try to draw, you'll probably end up getting killed first. If the guy points a gun at you, then takes off and as he's exciting the store you shoot him in the back, you'll end up in jail no matter what.



    Archsgurl wrote:
    @Pace -- You know, I have read what you said, and have to say point blank that life is more important than money. That family is now without a father and husband because of a punk that was willing to kill over what you call property. You might not care enough about your life, to CC at work, to get around a stupid rule like no guns but what about your family? Do you want to leave them to carry on without you just cause that paycheck was more important to you than protecting yourself?

    I have worked in a gas station alone, 5 am - 3 pm and it is scary to do when you only have the cameras and you know the cops are too far away to help. I wished I could have had a gun but that was in California - SF Bay Area-- and that state isnt gun friendly, imo, at all.

    Your opinon is allowed from what I have seen here, but really do you have to bash others opinons? You would rather stand there and watch a BG take your car? your valuables? hurt your wife/gf/family? Then use your gun.. fine.. but dont insult the ones of us that believe in our right to protect ourselves.


    *looks around*


    Sorry, the newbie will be quiet now... :?

  22. #22
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    Pace wrote:
    I understand where you coming from.

    There are obviously different situations. For example, if you see someone breaking into a car, in almost all jurisdictions it would be illegal for you to draw a weapon to prevent them from taking the car. It would also be illegal for a police officer to do so.

    If someone walks into a shop and demands money, and you draw your weapon and shoot him, you will go to jail. You had no right to take a life legally (or ethically in my opinion) as you were not in danger. The law requires that you are in immediate danger of life of limb in most jurisdictions.

    What if the person points a gun at you? You are then in immediate danger, you have every right to defend yourself. What if he has a gun in his hand and doesn't point at you? Good question (glad I asked). That is a hard case, but in most juristictions at that point he is posing an immediate danger...

    What about the home? That is a bit different. There is an assumption if someone is actively engaged in entering your home that they may be very well wanting to do harm. It's a lot different than, as I said, if you are driving by your house and see someone ravishing your garden gnome.

    I am referring to purely defending your property. You do not have a right legally, or otherwise in just defending your property, to use a gun. You will go to jail, and most likely be convicted.

    I would also recognize that even in the case of you feeling threatened, you need to be smart, look at the situation. If there is a guy pointing a gun at you, and you decide to try to draw, you'll probably end up getting killed first. If the guy points a gun at you, then takes off and as he's exciting the store you shoot him in the back, you'll end up in jail no matter what.



    Archsgurl wrote:
    @Pace -- You know, I have read what you said, and have to say point blank that life is more important than money. That family is now without a father and husband because of a punk that was willing to kill over what you call property. You might not care enough about your life, to CC at work, to get around a stupid rule like no guns but what about your family? Do you want to leave them to carry on without you just cause that paycheck was more important to you than protecting yourself?

    I have worked in a gas station alone, 5 am - 3 pm and it is scary to do when you only have the cameras and you know the cops are too far away to help. I wished I could have had a gun but that was in California - SF Bay Area-- and that state isnt gun friendly, imo, at all.

    Your opinon is allowed from what I have seen here, but really do you have to bash others opinons? You would rather stand there and watch a BG take your car? your valuables? hurt your wife/gf/family? Then use your gun.. fine.. but dont insult the ones of us that believe in our right to protect ourselves.


    *looks around*


    Sorry, the newbie will be quiet now... :?

    if a person walks into a store and points a gun at me
    -- as taught in my Texas CC permit class -- I can assume my life is in danger and shoot him, kill him no, but most CC courses dont teach using deadly force.

    If a person, while I am sitting in my car, tries to car jack me -- I can pull my weapon and give him options -- which I have previously done. If I am not in my car, and he steals it, as long as one of my kids isnt in the car, what do I care?

    If a person, breaks into my home or tries, I can and have pulled a gun on them. Tis my right to protect me and mine. Oh and the guy I pulled it on, needed a change of pants by the time the Leos arrived.

    In the situation #2 and #3 -- The BG is the one arrested and carted off, not me. I do have a right to defend my property, my life, and the lives of the ones I love. Is deadly force needed every single time I pull my gun? No of course not, but I would rather have him look down the barrel of my gun, then do things to me, my grandma (R.I.P Grandma) and my children that can and does ruin their lives....

    I have pulled my gun while living in Texas, 3 times total, on BGs or in a situation where I felt that I and/or my childrens lives were in danger or where I, my kids or my grandmas life was in danger. I pulled my gun on a person in California, where my child's life was in danger. I did it once and yes I would do it again.

    Most BGs base their criminal activity on the basis that the victim wont fight back, period. Having a gun on my person and in my car and home deterred the BGs from carrying out their illegal activity. It is no different that women taking Self Defense classes to protect themselves from rapists and muggers.

    Believe it or not, but most Leos like responsible gun owners because they do help deter crime.



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