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Thread: AP - Buzz and bullets: Gun fans cheer Starbucks' policy

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    http://www.seattlepi.com/national/11...s__coffee.html

    SNIP

    Buzz and bullets: Gun fans cheer Starbucks' policy
    By GREG BLUESTEIN
    ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

    Dale Welch recently walked into a Starbucks in Virginia, handgun strapped to his waist, and ordered a banana Frappuccino with a cinnamon bun. He says the firearm drew a double-take from at least one customer, but not a peep from the baristas.

    Welch's foray into the coffeehouse was part of an effort by some gun owners to exercise and advertise their rights in states that allow people to openly carry firearms.

    Even in some "open carry" states, businesses are allowed to ban guns in their stores. And some have, creating political confrontations with gun owners. But Starbucks, the largest chain targeted, has refused to take the bait, saying in a statement this month that it follows state and local laws and has its own safety measures in its stores.

    "Starbucks is a special target because it's from the hippie West Coast, and a lot of dedicated consumers who pay $4 for coffee have expectations that Starbucks would ban guns. And here they aren't," said John Bruce, a political science professor at the University of Mississippi who is an expert in gun policy."

    Welch, a 71-year-old retired property manager who lives in Richmond, Va., doesn't see any reason why he shouldn't bear arms while he gets caffeinated.

    "I don't know of anybody who would provide me with defense other than myself, so I routinely as a way of life carry a weapon - and that extends to my coffee shops," he said.

    . . .

    Just as shops can deny service to barefoot customers, restaurants and stores in some states can declare their premises gun-free zones.

    The advocacy group OpenCarry.org, a leading group encouraging the demonstrations, applauded Starbucks in a statement for "deciding not to discriminate against lawful gun carriers."

    "Starbucks is seen as a responsible corporation and they're seen as a very progressive corporation, and this policy is very much in keeping with that," said John Pierce, co-founder of OpenCarry.org. "If you're going to support individual rights, you have to support them all. I applaud them, and I've gone out of my way personally to let every manager of every Starbucks I pass know that."

    . . .

    Gun control advocates have been on the defensive. Their opponents have trumpeted fears that gun rights would erode under a Democrat-led White House and Congress, but President Barack Obama and his top allies have largely been silent on issues such as reviving an assault weapons ban or strengthening background checks at gun shows.

    Gun rights groups are looking to build on a 2008 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that struck down Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban, and cheered legislation that took effect Monday allowing licensed gun owners to bring firearms into national parks. Obama signed that legislation as part of a broader bill.

    Legislators in Montana and Tennessee, meanwhile, have passed measures seeking to exempt guns made and kept in-state from national gun control laws. And state lawmakers elsewhere are considering legislation that would give residents more leeway to carry concealed weapons without permits.

    Observers say the gun rights movement is using the Starbucks campaign to add momentum and energize its supporters.

    "They're trying to change the culture with this broader notion of gun rights," said Clyde Wilcox, a Georgetown University government professor who has written a book on the politics of gun control. "I think they are pressing the notion that they've got a rout going, so why not just get what they can while they're ahead?"

    ---

    On the Net:

    http://www.bradycampaign.org/

    http://www.opencarry.org/


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    ""They're trying to change the culture with this broader notion of gun rights," said Clyde Wilcox,..."

    I think Mr. Wilcox is narrow minded and missed the mark. The fact is that "culture" has enbraced the right to arms since prior to 1776. It wasn't until the 1930's that "gun control" became so popular, due in part to the Northern gansters who used machine guns and military weapons to get their business done.

    The "change" is people who want to ban guns and gun rights.

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    Here goes the small penis syndrome again. Why are you people so afraid of acting like a man? Grow up, become more educated and less paranoid. These insecurities you have will not lessen because of that BIG GUN you parade about with.:celebrate

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    david865 wrote:
    Here goes the small penis syndrome again. Why are you people so afraid of acting like a man? Grow up, become more educated and less paranoid. These insecurities you have will not lessen because of that BIG GUN you parade about with.:celebrate
    Do not feed the troll
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    Mike wrote:
    [...]

    Just as shops can deny service to barefoot customers, restaurants and stores in some states can declare their premises gun-free zones.

    [...]
    Does anybody know which states can't ban a gun carrier from their business? This smells like a foul to me.

    TFred

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    Well being barefoot is not explicitly protected by the Bill of Rights , but the 2a is suppose to protect that right from government. I have the same question on the NC forum, if they can deny me from their business for carrying, then why not for my religious beliefs or my race? To me it's a civil rights case just waiting.

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    david865 wrote:
    Here goes the small penis syndrome again.Â* Why are you people so afraid of actingÂ* like a man?Â* Grow up, become more educated and less paranoid.Â* These insecurities you have will not lessen because of that BIG GUN you parade about with.:celebrate
    Now that was funny.

    There is no reason to justify guns in Starbucks. I would rather have people throw coffee on each other, than shoot each other. People need to be able to feel at least somewhat safe and comfortable. I live in Jamaica, where the gun violence situation is very extreme, and no one goes outside because of it. That has quite literally diminished the quality of life here substantially.

    Many people think that they are invincible because they have guns, and they certainly are not. They are killed and robbed very frequently, and easily. The use of guns as self defense weapons has failed to keep crime under control, mainly because you never have easy access to your gun when you need it most, and if you position it for easy access, then burglars have easy access to it and shoot you with it very easily. They are silent, and sadly, too successful. There is also a huge problem with school shootings due to children taking their parents' guns to school. You can either conceal your gun thoroughly and get killed easily by a criminal, or you can make yourself very vulnerable and make it easily accessible to both you and your children. As you can see, it is a lose-lose situation. Good for criminals, and terrible for innocent citizens. Humans are irresponsible, and cannot be trusted with certain things, especially not things such as guns and alcohol. Those two things are mostly abused, and are not helpful.

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    Never having been a fan of Starbucks coffee or culture, but I think i will stop buy and buy a cup to thank them for this surprisingly good call on the companies part.

    +1 for Starbucks



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    Legislators in Montana and Tennessee, meanwhile, have passed measures seeking to exempt guns made and kept in-state from national gun control laws. And state lawmakers elsewhere are considering legislation that would give residents more leeway to carry concealed weapons without permits.


    They forgot to mention Utah... got signed into law last week :celebrate

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    YoZUpZ wrote:
    Legislators in Montana and Tennessee, meanwhile, have passed measures seeking to exempt guns made and kept in-state from national gun control laws. And state lawmakers elsewhere are considering legislation that would give residents more leeway to carry concealed weapons without permits.
    Unfortunately Indiana is not included and I seriously doubt it will ever be. Perhaps it's time to move to a state that is.

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    Mitochondria,

    Only law abiding citizens will obey laws.

    That means only law abiding people will be throwing coffee at each other.

    That's going to be a real deterrent to the criminals who come in and are throwing bullets at you. Wake up and see the truth.

    Jamacian's have done exactly what the criminals wanted... you have allowed the criminalsto control your life though fear and intimidation. You are cowering in your homes praying they will leave you alone.

    You can have that in your country, that's your choice and your country.

    I prefer to stand up in my country and say "Enough".. I will not be intimidated, I will fight for what's right and not let some thugs rule my life.

    That's the way it is today in this entire world, there are alot of people tyring to rule the world though fear.

    Many of us in the United States are saying NO... it's not going to happen, and if it does happen, it's not going to because we didn't try. We didn't go hide in our houses and hope it would go away.

    Until some scienctist developes a pill that gets rid of all the hate in this world, we will have to keep up the fight to remain safe and free. I don't see that pill any time soon.

    BTW... if your people are getting disarmed by the criminals ... like you said they are ...then train harder... there is story after story in our news media showing that good, law abiding citizens are winning this battle.



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    Bookman wrote:
    david865 wrote:
    Here goes the small penis syndrome again. Why are you people so afraid of acting like a man? Grow up, become more educated and less paranoid. These insecurities you have will not lessen because of that BIG GUN you parade about with.:celebrate
    Do not feed the troll
    + 27,000 Thanks

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    I just sent Starbucks a letter:



    Hello, I just wanted to you to know that I have decided to increase my coffee drinking experience at Starbucks because of your decision not to "discriminate against lawful gun carriers".
    I have been carrying lawfully for 22 years and it is a pleasure that a corporation such as yours sees the positive and avant-garde position of such a controversial subject such as gun control. I have never had a problem at my favorite store in the Sandhill Center in Columbia, SC, and will now patronize even more of your stores in my travels across SC.


    Everyone who is a lawful carrier should thank Starbucks for the smart decision.

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    rsjdmj wrote:
    I just sent Starbucks a letter:



    Hello, I just wanted to you to know that I have decided to increase my coffee drinking experience at Starbucks because of your decision not to "discriminate against lawful gun carriers".
    I have been carrying lawfully for 22 years and it is a pleasure that a corporation such as yours sees the positive and avant-garde position of such a controversial subject such as gun control. I have never had a problem at my favorite store in the Sandhill Center in Columbia, SC, and will now patronize even more of your stores in my travels across SC.


    Everyone who is a lawful carrier should thank Starbucks for the smart decision.
    A newbie on this thread that is not a troll - how refreshing.

    Welcome aboard - I'll buy your next cup of __.

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    Mitochondria wrote:
    Now that was funny.

    There is no reason to justify guns in Starbucks. I would rather have people throw coffee on each other, than shoot each other. People need to be able to feel at least somewhat safe and comfortable. I live in Jamaica, where the gun violence situation is very extreme, and no one goes outside because of it. That has quite literally diminished the quality of life here substantially.

    Many people think that they are invincible because they have guns, and they certainly are not. They are killed and robbed very frequently, and easily. The use of guns as self defense weapons has failed to keep crime under control, mainly because you never have easy access to your gun when you need it most, and if you position it for easy access, then burglars have easy access to it and shoot you with it very easily. They are silent, and sadly, too successful. There is also a huge problem with school shootings due to children taking their parents' guns to school. You can either conceal your gun thoroughly and get killed easily by a criminal, or you can make yourself very vulnerable and make it easily accessible to both you and your children. As you can see, it is a lose-lose situation. Good for criminals, and terrible for innocent citizens. Humans are irresponsible, and cannot be trusted with certain things, especially not things such as guns and alcohol. Those two things are mostly abused, and are not helpful.
    Ahh and the blind lead the blind.

    First of all I am justified in carrying my legally owned handgun into a Starbucks far more than the idiot that may come in there with criminal intent in mind.

    You are blind to several facts my friend. First of all most handguns that criminals obtain are from the streets and not from their parents dresser drawer.

    Since you chose to bring up the shootings in the schools how about we address the numerous other places that criminals are killing people. For instance, our churches, our shopping malls, our banks, our fast food business's & just about any other place where the public gathers.

    Most criminals are not silent as you and Hollywood tend to present to those that watch. Criminals that break into homes for the most part make noise and in some cases, a lot of noise.

    People that own guns know that they are at risk to loss of life, that's why we own them. It's people such as yourself that rely solely on the local law enforcement to arrive on the scene to "save the day". (again a Hollywood scenario, which rarely happens by the way).

    I have many friends that live in Jamaica & I've been there several times and let me tell you this much, guns are not the issue or root of the problems there. It's the mentality of some that they must take from others to justify their hate toward anyone and everyone. An old Jamaican phrase concerning how to get even with those that do them harm is "to remove a weed from a garden you do not simply cut it off-you remove it by the root". Meaning that you do not kill the one that offended you but you kill their entire family. That is the problem in your country and has nothing to do with guns.

    Moan and groan all that you desire. As for me and my family, we will continue to fight for our right to own and carry our handguns. We will also carry them without the fear that those do not chose to carry a handgun live with. When someone starts shooting at you then duck if you've time or run if you can. I wish you all the best.

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    The gun banners already havea petition against Starbucks running.

    Ihopped over to the Brady site to see if they were responding toStarbucks positive show of support for the 2nd Ammendment. Of course the Brady site is looking for banners of the world to unite.

    Has anyone seen a petition out there in support of the Starbucks decision? I know that sounds funny as petitions are usually threats, but a petition to support their decision could take away any heat they may feel from the gun-grabbers out there.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Since you guys opened the door to carrying for self defense, I'll take advantage of this opportunity to REMIND ya'll the true purpose of bearing arms is NOT, I repeat, is NOT about protecting yourself from street thugs, it's about reminding those who "serve" in government just who's the boss.
    So as long as we "bear" in silence, definitelynot publicyand absolutely don't bother or offend anyone, especially the street thugs, then we satisfy your interpretation of the 2nd Ammendment? Hmm

    How about I buy you a t-shirt that says "I don't think the 2nd ammendment applies to protecting myself from YOU, Mr. Street Thug." Also, if you would be so kind, as apparently you are a really nice person who doesn't wish to offend anyone, please let us know how that works out for you.

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    EdwardNorton wrote:
    Since you chose to bring up the shootings in the schools how about we address the numerous other places that criminals are killing people. For instance, our churches, our shopping malls, our banks, our fast food business's & just about any other place where the public gathers.
    Edward,

    I'd like to clarify a point you may or may not have been making. These other places where so many killing occur have one thing in common for the most part. They are mostly locations that are illegal to carry a gun. These gun-free zones are the best place in the world for criminals. Examples: schools, churches, restaurants, parks.

    In my opinion, when you open up a zone to prohibit the lawful, you invite the lawless. Someone willing to take a life - again, in my opinion, the most heinous of all crimes - does NOT care about anyone's petty law about gun possession.

    I see the whole notion as silly. It is about as silly as ticketing a bankrobber for parking in a handicapped spot. About the only reason he'd care is if his getaway car was towed.

    Best Regards

    S45



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    Springfield45ACP wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Since you guys opened the door to carrying for self defense, I'll take advantage of this opportunity to REMIND ya'll the true purpose of bearing arms is NOT, I repeat, is NOT about protecting yourself from street thugs, it's about reminding those who "serve" in government just who's the boss.
    So as long as we "bear" in silence, definitelyÂ*not publicyÂ*and absolutely don't bother or offend anyone, especially the street thugs, then we satisfy your interpretation of the 2nd Ammendment?Â* Hmm

    How about I buy you a t-shirt that says "I don't think the 2nd ammendment applies to protecting myself from YOU, Mr. Street Thug."Â* Also, if you would be so kind, as apparently you are a really nice person who doesn't wish to offend anyone, please let us know how that works out for you.
    I have guns for both reasons, I carry a handgun when I go out to protect myself and those around me.

    I think what he is pointing out that our country's founders wanted us to bear arms to protect us not just from the thugs in the street, but the thugs that may use their positions to gain political power and that may try to take away our God-given/natural rights.

    Sadly, our government is slyly (and not so slyly) trying to make us forget the second part, by telling us "there is no need for assault rifles", "there is no need for automatic weapons" by focusing on protecting ourselves from common criminals that will try to rob or rape us, they try to make us forget that Yes we do need assault rifles... Yes we do need machine guns... Yes, we do need armor piercing bullets so we can protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. If the time comes that we need to defend ourselves from such a government, our handguns will have no effect against their automatic weapons and body armor... Sadly they have not just the general public convinced that there is no need for such weapons, but I have heard many gun owners agreeing that there is no need for automatic weapons...

    So, I appreciate the reminder, I wouldn't say it is the "only real" reason we need guns, but is a very large part.

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    I disagree Mark. The reason for the RKBA (2A) is as you said, but people can have their own reasons. The real beauty is that it is a right, and no reason or justification is required.

    Sent from Palm Pre.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    G. Gordon Liddy (someone I have NO use for) took a lot of flack for suggesting head shots, should the BATFEXYZ come calling.Â* This does not require armor-piercing rounds.
    Yeah, I've thought about that, I've also thought about Riot gear and the face masks that are worn, I know they aren't bullet proof, but if they were to do a mass gun confiscation, my bet is that they would be decked out with as much armor as possible, what if by that time, there were bullet-proof face masks?

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    I disagree Mark. The reason for the RKBA (2A) is as you said, but people can have their own reasons. The real beauty is that it is a right, and no reason or justification is required.

    Sent from Palm Pre.
    LOL, you AGREE my statement is correct, but then turn right around and start with the usual statists "but, but, but logic."
    People CAN "have their reasons", but all the reasons they can spew will never alter the founders' intent one iota.
    We are all free to make choices, have reasons - that was the founders intent IMHO.

    It is primarily the government that is so restricted/limited.

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Perhaps the 30 most important minutes in history (pro arguments)will occur tomorrow, March 2nd, before the United States Supreme Court. http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m3d1-All-eyes-on-Supreme-Court-Tuesday-for-Chicago-gun-ban-showdown?cid=examiner-email

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    You need to go read about what the orginal militias were designed to do. They were set up to protect not only the state but also the for individual protection.

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