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Thread: oc scenario

  1. #1
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    Not to sound ignorant, but if I go into walmart in Hammond while oc'ing with my familyand I am approached by a leo who is ignorant of the law, how should I proceed? If he insists on arresting me what recourse do I have? I only wish to better understand my options as to not be a bad example and possibly threaten our rights. Knowledge is power.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    Mark's suggestion is certainly one way to go about things. I would probably proceed differently. I would attempt to educate the officer as to the legality of open carry. Now, if the store manager asks him to deal with it then you have only 2 options...you can leave or you can go to your car and remove your weapon. It's that simple. But it's very unlikely that an officer will outright arrest you for OC as there is no law being broken. If the officer says you're under arrest and have the right to remain silent before even speaking or asking you a question, then remain silent and get an attorney.

    Simply put, try to educate him as best you can, give him a LOCAL pamphlet if you have one, and if he insists that you disarm you either leave and shop elsewhere or do as he says.

    In my experience TPSO has some pretty good folks working there so you are unlikely to have much of a problem. I've OCed in other China Marts before and haven't had a problem so far.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    A LOCAL pamphlet, LOL, I'm sure THAT'S going to impress him.
    It's not meant to impress anyone, it's meant to educate people of the law when they are ignorant.

    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Admit it.* They either KNOW the law already or refuse to OBEY the law.
    ********. LEOs are not lawyers, nor do they know every single law word for word that is in the volumes of laws on the books. To assume or assert that they should is preposterous.

    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Either way, the BEST way is to continue to sue them in civil court,
    try and get a grand jury to INDICT them in CRIMINAL court.
    Wrong, the best way is to never get to court in the first place because it does no good other than waste time and money.

    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    After all, they ARE criminals, just happen to run around in state-sponsored costumes.
    Showing your true colors aren't you? Yet you wonder why LEOs have a bad perception of armed citizens and you in particular.

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    Mark. i would greatly appreciate it if you would not bash all of us LEOs. I completely understand you had a problem that makes you biased but this beating on your chest stuff is really offensive to me and any other LEO that believes in your cause.

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    Ask the officer if you are being detained--if not then just walk away. If he says yes(and OC is the reason) then because you are not violating the law and he is, place him under arrest for violation of RS14:46.1 False Imprisonment( while armed with a deadly weapon.) This is punishable by up to 10 years at hard labor and a large fine.
    Have him call his supervisor and explain that under Louisiana law when a citizen performs an arrest for a felony the police are required to assist the citizen with the whole arrest process. Thus his supervisor is required to help you perform the arrest of this officer. Failure to do so may constitute malfeasance in office.

    I have discussed this with my attorney and he allows that while this is the law it will be very likely difficult to impossible to actually achieve this. You could remind the officer about the Gonzales PD!

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    While I appreciate all points ov view, I'm mostly interested in real world scenarios and solutions. I have no desire to make a statement or sue anyone , I only wish to exercise my constitutional rights in a manner which places our cause in the best possible light. While I applaud the courage to get arrested for this, and them ramrod the illegal arrest back at them, I would sooner avoid it all together. If a leo who is ignorant of the law approaches me already bent out of shape,and I attempt to educate him ( which in a perfect world would be the ideal situation) in the real worldit's likely to have some leo's get even more riled up.is there an actual law or precedent I can refer to? I contacted the state police and asked them for a written statement on the matter, and they simply told me it was legal and local police are required to know that. Thank you all for sharing your insight and experience.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Me: $500.00 to your defense. You: OC at a school.
    I've made this offer multiple times on public forums. I can't back out of it.

    You, on the other hand have done nothing BUT back out.

    Whatever. We already know your true colors. You illegally cover your gun and call others cowards.

    Once again your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    Also, where can I get a LOCAL pamhlet, or actually a dozen or so that I can distribute them accordingly? Also, Turbodog, if you are in independance, we are practically neighbors. I look forward to possibly discussing this in person sometime, any information and experience on the subject you would be willing to share would be well recieved and appreciated.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    TRACKBAR I have nothing but respect for GOOD COPS. Those of you who know the law also understand that the law abiding armed citizens are the good guys. A criminal will never openly carry a weapon.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

  10. #10
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    NRAMARINE wrote:
    While I appreciate all points ov view, I'm mostly interested in real world scenarios and solutions. I have no desire to make a statement or sue anyone , I only wish to exercise my constitutional rights in a manner which places our cause in the best possible light. While I applaud the courage to get arrested for this, and them ramrod the illegal arrest back at them, I would sooner avoid it all together. If a leo who is ignorant of the law approaches me already bent out of shape,and I attempt to educate him ( which in a perfect world would be the ideal situation) in the real worldit's likely to have some leo's get even more riled up.is there an actual law or precedent I can refer to? I contacted the state police and asked them for a written statement on the matter, and they simply told me it was legal and local police are required to know that. Thank you all for sharing your insight and experience.
    I've carried in that very store with no problems from LEO, store personnel or other customers. Doesn't mean any of that won't ever happen though. On the whole I think Tangi LEO have a better handle on firearm carry than many other parishes.

    My advice if it should happen is: Be courteous, discuss it with him if he'll listen (your right, some don't want to be educated by a "civilian"), leave if ordered to do so. Don't get confrontational about it. You ain't gonna win the battle right then.

    Come back later and take it up with the store management and the sheriffs office if need be.

    You can't be legally arrested merely for openly carrying a firearm. You can't be legally charged with disturbing the peace for merely openly carrying a firearm. You can be legally charged with trespassing if you refuse to leave.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    Thank you Turbodog, I look forward to many more discussions on this subject with all of you. I will relate any experiences I have.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    Documents citing the legality of Open Carry in Louisiana by FreeCitizen on Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:19 pm
    The LA State Constitution - Article 1, Section 11 - "The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person."

    State v. Fluker 311 So. 2d 863 - A 1975 State Supreme Court case regarding the determination of concealment of a firearm in LA

    Attorney General Opinion No. 78-795 - The AG replies to two questions: "1. Is it legal to carry an exposed handgun?" and "2. Do Parishes and/or Municipalities have the power to regulate the carrying of exposed handguns?"

    Attorney General Opinion No. 79-1212 - The AG replies to a Ms. Irene W. Pressley of the Westlake, LA Police Department, answering her question of "1. Are there any laws prescribing when it is legal to carry a gun?"

    Attorney General Opinion No. 78-1288 - The AG, siting State vs. Fluker, says "that a weapon is not concealed, even if not in full, open view, if it is sufficiently exposed to reveal its identity."

    All of these affirm our RIGHT to Open Carry in Louisiana. However, there are some caveats - please see the following:
    RS 14:95.2 Concerning Carrying of a Firearm in School Zones and "Firearm-Free Zones" - Please note, you CAN keep a firearm in your car while in school property. "Subsection C. (5) Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle."
    RS 14.95.4 Concerning Consent to search for a firearm while at an Alcoholic Beverage Outlet
    RS 14.95.5 Concerning Carrying of a Firearm in an Alcoholic Beverage Outlet
    RS 40:1796 Concerning Preemption of State Law - Basically this says laws passed before July 15th, 1985 are valid. You have to research this for yourself in your area!

    DISCLAIMER: AS ALWAYS, RESEARCH EVERYTHING FOR YOURSELF. Ask a lawyer. Nothing posted here is intended to construe 'legal advice'.

    Happy Open Carrying!
    The LOCAL Team

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    I hope it's not too rude to cross post from the LOCAL website.




    NRA Marine asked:
    Also, where can I get a LOCAL pamhlet, or actually a dozen or so that I can distribute them accordingly?

    here is the LOCAL pamphlet, but you will have to register at that site.

    Code:
    http://laopencarry.org/local-pamphlet-t186.html?hilit=pamphlet

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    NRAMARINE, the LOCAL meeting will be tomorrow night (Wednesday) at the Shoney's in Laplace. If you are available we're always happy to have folks show up.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Either way, the BEST way is to continue to sue them in civil court,
    Yea, we see how well THAT worked out for ya....as posted in another thread.....

    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Saturday, the wife and I ran into a guy at Cycle Gear who related HIS OC experience in Gonzales.
    Seems he was accosted by the Gonzales' cops for OC'ing. Instead of holding out his wrists and allowing himself to be arrested, he wimped out by showing some sort of "commission."

    Obviously, the Gonzales cops have yet to learn.
    Apparently, according to YOUR own words above, one could make the case that suing them has little to no results other than lining your own pocket at the expense of innocent taxpayers..something many of us have stated for some time.

    In the end, awfully big words coming from someone who caved in and took the easy way out by settleing your case. If you were to TRULY practice what you preach, you'd have seen your case all the way to the courtroom and force a court ordered judgement proving the GPD was in the wrong for the record. AND, if you were TRULY the crusader for rights you claim to be, you'd have invested that money into some form of defense fund to aid others who chose to follow your lead and push the law to recognize rights instead of buying material things that benefit no one but you.

    Coward? I only see one coward here and it's not LA Confederate.

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    JeepSeller wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Either way, the BEST way is to continue to sue them in civil court,
    Yea, we see how well THAT worked out for ya....as posted in another thread.....

    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Saturday, the wife and I ran into a guy at Cycle Gear who related HIS OC experience in Gonzales.
    Seems he was accosted by the Gonzales' cops for OC'ing. Instead of holding out his wrists and allowing himself to be arrested, he wimped out by showing some sort of "commission."

    Obviously, the Gonzales cops have yet to learn.
    Apparently, according to YOUR own words above, one could make the case that suing them has little to no results other than lining your own pocket at the expense of innocent taxpayers..something many of us have stated for some time.

    In the end, awfully big words coming from someone who caved in and took the easy way out by settleing your case. If you were to TRULY practice what you preach, you'd have seen your case all the way to the courtroom and force a court ordered judgement proving the GPD was in the wrong for the record. AND, if you were TRULY the crusader for rights you claim to be, you'd have invested that money into some form of defense fund to aid others who chose to follow your lead and push the law to recognize rights instead of buying material things that benefit no one but you.

    Coward? I only see one coward here and it's not LA Confederate.
    Never looked at it like that, you're right. What a jerk.

  17. #17
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    Hows that planing for the OC day in Gonzales coming mark?
    You did say it was long overdue.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

  18. #18
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    We can all go to Cabelas for a Bison burger.

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    NRAMARINE, there have been HUNDREDS of documented cases, even on this forum alone of people who have NOT been arrested when they come in contact with a LEO, even one who may be ignorant of the law.

    The difference between those who have been arrested and face down on the pavement and those who haven't is simply attitude.

    So long as you don't make an @$$ out of yourself, the odds are very likely you'll be OK. Just do as the officer tells you. MOST decent, law abiding gun owners who care about gun rights and being good ambassador representatives of gun owners agree that standing on the side of the road orinside the WalMart is NOT the place to get into a "who's is bigger" ******* contest with a LEO. If they are asking you to leave with your firearm, even if they are wrong, leave. You can't and won't win right there.

    The way to win that argument is to go back outside, leave the firearm in the vehicle, and then, if you want to go back in and argue the finer points of the constitution with the LEO and manager, go for it. Now, without that firearm, they have no reason to deny you access without making it personal.

    Later, contact the LEO's superiors, WalMart's corporate dept., it's well documented that WalMart's policy is to adhere to local laws regarding firearms in their stores. If OC is legal, and you were asked to leave, make your case there.

    Again, you CAN'T win arguing with the LEO standing there in the moment. Right or wrong, they've been conditioned by training and experience to avoid those arguments. Imagine, if you will, if they just "let go" everyone who stood there and said "But, I'm not doing anything wrong officer!".

    Be a good example of gun owners everywhere you go. Only THEN can we begin to change peoples perception of gun owners and begin to turn the tide of people going :what:when they say a man with a gun. Avoiding these kind of scenarios all together.

  20. #20
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    JeepSeller wrote:

    Be a good example of gun owners everywhere you go. Only THEN can we begin to change peoples perception of gun owners and begin to turn the tide of people going :what:when they say a man with a gun.
    well said JeepSeller.

    In a nutshell: Your an ambassador for OC every time you walk out the door with it on your side.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Well, NRAMarine, there you have it.
    All the statists have checked in with their opinions.
    Go ahead and follow them.
    drive by posters irritate me.


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    4sooth wrote:
    Ask the officer if you are being detained--if not then just walk away. If he says yes(and OC is the reason) then because you are not violating the law and he is, place him under arrest for violation of RS14:46.1 False Imprisonment( while armed with a deadly weapon.) This is punishable by up to 10 years at hard labor and a large fine.
    Have him call his supervisor and explain that under Louisiana law when a citizen performs an arrest for a felony the police are required to assist the citizen with the whole arrest process. Thus his supervisor is required to help you perform the arrest of this officer. Failure to do so may constitute malfeasance in office.

    I have discussed this with my attorney and he allows that while this is the law it will be very likely difficult to impossible to actually achieve this. You could remind the officer about the Gonzales PD!
    lol

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