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Thread: Fire/EMS

  1. #1
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    I finished my EMT Basic and EMT-Intermediate level and am now moving on to Paramedic school, and do the fire academy at the same time, currently not working for any department yet.

    During one of my EMT classes awhile back (before I took my CWP class or carried) they mentioned something about carrying on the apparatus or while on duty, something to the affect that you can't as it's a federal law? Does anyone know any information about this or can corroborate? Is it against the law to carry on an ambulance/fire truck? or for Healthcare providers: i.e. EMT's/Paramedics etcto carry on duty?

    Maybe its just per deparment SOPs or state regulation or something. Curious if there is any laws


  2. #2
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    I suspect that it is much like the trucker restriction, opinion not law. Remember that state law forbids any government agency from making their own rules:

    53-5a-102. Uniform firearm laws.
    (1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right under Article I, Section 6 of the Utah Constitution, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform civil and criminal firearm laws throughout the state.
    (2) Except as specifically provided by state law, a local authority or state entity may not:
    (a) prohibit an individual from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping a firearm at the individual's place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in the individual's possession or lawfully under the individual's control
    ; or
    (b) require an individual to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
    (3) In conjunction with Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons, this section is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities.
    (4) All authority to regulate firearms is reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities.
    (5) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property.
    (6) As used in this section:
    (a) "firearm" has the same meaning as defined in Subsection 76-10-501(9); and
    (b) "local authority or state entity" includes public school districts, public schools, and state institutions of higher education.
    (7) Nothing in this section restricts or expands private property rights.



  3. #3
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    I worked for a private company in the Salt Lake Valley, and they had a no firearms policy. I would suspect it was due to the different restricted areas you often had to enter.

    If you were called to the tarmac of the airport to meet a plane for a patient, you were entering the restricted area with a firearm.

    You often had to transport psychiatric patients to and from firearm restricted mental health facilities.

    Been inside the court house, jail and prison on calls. And of course, let us not forget the restricted "church".

    IMHO, you just never knew where you were going to end up from minute to minute and it would be very easy to find yourself in a restricted area and in a load of hot water. You might just end up losing your job, certification and freedom all in one afternoon.
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson circa 1776
    www.utahccwcarry.com

  4. #4
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    Deepdiver36 wrote:
    I worked for a private company in the Salt Lake Valley, and they had a no firearms policy - - -
    You often had to transport psychiatric patients to and from firearm restricted mental health facilities.
    If ever there was a place and reason to carry is when you havea nutaround you! Like you arrive at the scene before the cops show up and you have some drunken or spaced outpsycho come out swinging a machete at you. You have a gun, you have an equalizer. And forget the pepper spray or taser. Well, I suppose you could run away and let him/her go after someone else.

  5. #5
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    To your point, it is policy that the police are to secure a scene prior to EMS/Fire making contact with the patient. We had a job to do and it was not to be the police and secure a scene.

    I am pro 2A one hundred and ten percent, but like I mentioned in my previous post. You just never knew where you would be called to next and some of those places could land you in jail if you were carrying.
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson circa 1776
    www.utahccwcarry.com

  6. #6
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    Good points deepdiver.

    You could always get a job in a rural town with no airport, mental hospital or other secure area... Or find an employer who will let you lock the gun in the ambulance if needed. It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.

  7. #7
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    jaredbelch wrote:
    Good points deepdiver.

    You could always get a job in a rural town with no airport, mental hospital or other secure area... Or find an employer who will let you lock the gun in the ambulance if needed.* It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.
    Good point. I know several people that came from rural units and they said they often times had to be the first in on calls without the boys and girls in blue support. It would be plausible that the larger cities may enjoy some options that a rural unit would not.

    The rural ambulances can catch some strange calls that are far away from any help so it would make sense to carry.

    Does any know of someone who works on a ambulance that carries?
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson circa 1776
    www.utahccwcarry.com

  8. #8
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    I've talked to some guys who say they don't see the need for it as emt's/firefighters don't normally pose a threat as do the boys in blue... but you get the few crazies or you arrive first etc. Course they say in those situations that's why they carry their trauma shears & a needle with some morphine or some other concoction to knock them out... I like the 3r's: Retreat, radio & reassess.

    I guess I'll have to assess the whole carry situation once I get hired on with a department.

    Thanks for all the good information!

  9. #9
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    You could always get a lock box for the ambulance. Like the one from Center of Mass. http://center-of-mass.com/Store_InCarGunSafe.htm I'm not sure if you would have your own ambulance so that you could keep it in there all the time. It's a great option for you if you ever came to a place that you couldn't carry. Just put the gun in there until you were out of the restricted area. Cabela's also has ones that are identical for about $30.

  10. #10
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    bmeldrum wrote:
    I've talked to some guys who say they don't see the need for it as emt's/firefighters don't normally pose a threat as do the boys in blue... but you get the few crazies or you arrive first etc. Course they say in those situations that's why they carry their trauma shears & a needle with some morphine or some other concoction to knock them out... I like the 3r's: Retreat, radio & reassess.

    I guess I'll have to assess the whole carry situation once I get hired on with a department.

    Thanks for all the good information!
    bmeldrum, I wish you the best in your career choice, I loved the job, just hard to make serious money at it.

    You really did hit the nail on the head. In my many years on the ambulance, I rarely if ever, had a serious incident related to my safety. Usually the law has already secured the scene, if not, then we would just wait. Besides, your correct is the 3r's. No shame in running away.

    mqondo wrote:
    You could always get a lock box for the ambulance. Like the one from Center of Mass. http://center-of-mass.com/Store_InCarGunSafe.htm I'm not sure if you would have your own ambulance so that you could keep it in there all the time. It's a great option for you if you ever came to a place that you couldn't carry. Just put the gun in there until you were out of the restricted area. Cabela's also has ones that are identical for about $30.
    You might be able to stash it while you and your partner enter a secure area but what do you do when the entire ambulance has to enter? Also, at least for our agency, we rotated the vehicles from shift to shift so you would rarely have the same bus more then once every two weeks or so.

    It would be nice if public safety/EMS type employee could receive some of the same immunities that are afforded to law enforcement/DA'/Judges etc. while in performance of their duties.

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson circa 1776
    www.utahccwcarry.com

  11. #11
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    Keep in mind that, although very unlikely, you can cook off a chambered round if you work fires also. I worked Fire/EMS and fought fires where homeowners firearms discharged under extreme heat. Ammo that was not chambered just seemed to blow up but chambered ammo can send a round down range, wherever that may be. Again, under your turnouts it shouldn't be a problem, but better safe than sorry in the fires. Also, most people who are firefighters/EMS personnel love their jobs. Be aware of your department's policies and use the PD for their job. If your fire/EMS scene is unsafe, wait for the PD. They have always been more than happy to help in my limited experience. Just my opinion.

  12. #12
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    kirkaroberts wrote:
    Also, most people who are firefighters/EMS personnel love their jobs.* Be aware of your department's policies and use the PD for their job.
    I certainly agree with letting the PD do their job, but your department can't have a policy restricting carry. Not in Utah.

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