Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 135

Thread: First Negative Run in with a Cop

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    So i had my first run into with a boulder cop while open carry. I was walking out of whole foods on pearl and a cop car stopped in the street to let me pass. He proceeded to roll down his window and as what department i was in. I informed him i was a civilian (veteran).

    So he asks me if i have my Boulder carry permit and i informed him i have a Colorado CCW permit (followed by a really big sigh from the cop) and proceed to hand it to him. (i wasn't concealed and my pistol was plainly visible).

    So he asked what line of work I'm in and why i carry I told him tech support and i carry for my protection. He looks at me like i'm crazy and i get another big sigh from him.

    Then he tells me "that's a little much Darin you need to cover that up from now on"

    Since i was on my lunch break and didn't feel like arguing i told him "ok thank you for the suggestion and covered my firearm"

    So was i in the right to open carry here? Did this cop have a reason to harass me about it? I forgot to add that he had someone handcuffed in the back of his car. Did i handle this right as well?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    28

    Post imported post

    You had every right to open carry and he was in the wrong. The problem is you handled it very badly from the beginning. You let an uneducated, no it all officer take away your rights for a brief moment. You were just another sheep and by you cowering down you just incouraged this officer to try this again.

    STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS SON!



  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    That proves everything we've been saying though about Where and Where you Cannot OC

    You CAN OC everywhere except Denver City/County- He would have arrested you on the spot and never questioned your motives for carry- if OC was illegal in Boulder. According to this officer- he confirms that it is indeed legal to Open Carry and you will indeed NOT be arrested and NOT become a Test Case.

    Officers do Not ask for things they can do themselves. "Then you don't mind if I look in your car?" They don't ask to search if they had RAS to begin with and could have legally searched the car from the get go. Same with searching your persons- they Ask if they have to.

    He confronted you and Yes you did conceal it when requested- but you were never Demanded. A demand would be "PUT YOUR HANDS ON YOUR HEAD!" because you're being detained and arrested for openly carrying in Boulder.

    So you're good to go. Carry on and Thanks a lot for the Motivation!

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    First Negative Run in with a Cop.
    It's like losing your cherry in our society. Now you're a man.



    :P

  5. #5
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Valcore wrote:
    So i had my first run into with a boulder cop while open carry. I was walking out of whole foods on pearl and a cop car stopped in the street to let me pass. He proceeded to roll down his window and as what department i was in. I informed him i was a civilian (veteran).

    So he asks me if i have my Boulder carry permit and i informed him i have a Colorado CCW permit (followed by a really big sigh from the cop) and proceed to hand it to him. (i wasn't concealed and my pistol was plainly visible).

    So he asked what line of work I'm in and why i carry I told him tech support and i carry for my protection. He looks at me like i'm crazy and i get another big sigh from him.

    Then he tells me "that's a little much Darin you need to cover that up from now on"

    Since i was on my lunch break and didn't feel like arguing i told him "ok thank you for the suggestion and covered my firearm"

    So was i in the right to open carry here? Did this cop have a reason to harass me about it? ...
    Seems to me that you should file a complaint. Even if you didn't get the officer's name you have a time, a place and other info that can help identify the officer.



  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    weaponize wrote:
    You had every right to open carry and he was in the wrong. The problem is you handled it very badly from the beginning. You let an uneducated, no it all officer take away your rights for a brief moment. You were just another sheep and by you cowering down you just incouraged this officer to try this again.

    STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS SON!

    What would you recommend should i have this experience again?

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    weaponize wrote:
    You had every right to open carry and he was in the wrong. The problem is you handled it very badly from the beginning. You let an uneducated, no it all officer take away your rights for a brief moment. You were just another sheep and by you cowering down you just incouraged this officer to try this again.

    STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS SON!

    What would you recommend should i have this experience again?

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    He's basically saying- graciously turn down the request from the officer to conceal the pistol- You may or may not disengage eye contact and continue on your way.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    Sounds good would it be worth while for me to even file a complaint with the boulder police office?

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    Don't get me wrong i'm fully aware of my rights in Colorado. I mostly wanted to leave (needed to get back to work) so i complied out of respect to the officers request and i fully intend to continue to open carry even though i have my concealed permit. If you think i should file a complaint and it would be worth while I will certainly do so.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    West End - Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    79

    Post imported post

    I dont allow LEO's to address me by my first name, I will correct them when they do, after all, I dont get to see their ID. I'm a wanger about it, I know, but if they hassle me, I give it right back to them... Back on topic, you should have OC'd and taken your ID back and gone about your day.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    Eh, I think he handled it correctly, no reason to antagonize the officer. There's no complaint here, a police officer is allowed to ask question, and you are in your right not to answer them. We dont always have to "make points"

    Not everything is a debate with everyone else.

    That being said, is Boulder still enforcing their deadly weapons scheme?



    Valcore wrote:
    So i had my first run into with a boulder cop while open carry. I was walking out of whole foods on pearl and a cop car stopped in the street to let me pass. He proceeded to roll down his window and as what department i was in. I informed him i was a civilian (veteran).

    So he asks me if i have my Boulder carry permit and i informed him i have a Colorado CCW permit (followed by a really big sigh from the cop) and proceed to hand it to him. (i wasn't concealed and my pistol was plainly visible).

    So he asked what line of work I'm in and why i carry I told him tech support and i carry for my protection. He looks at me like i'm crazy and i get another big sigh from him.

    Then he tells me "that's a little much Darin you need to cover that up from now on"

    Since i was on my lunch break and didn't feel like arguing i told him "ok thank you for the suggestion and covered my firearm"

    So was i in the right to open carry here? Did this cop have a reason to harass me about it? I forgot to add that he had someone handcuffed in the back of his car. Did i handle this right as well?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    God's Country, Missouri
    Posts
    1,279

    Post imported post

    I think you handled it quite well considering it was your first negative experience.

    It wasn't really that negative, either.

    If you didn't get in a ******* contest or go away in handcuffs, it doesn't really count as negative.

    As with anything that ANYONE ever does, there is always a first time. Unlike others here, I do not demand a mirror image of perfection to compare to my own version of what perfection looks like in order to berate and belittle you if you do not do exactly the things I say meet the guidelines of perfection.

    The first time I ever encountered a cop was when I was standing in line at a gas station and a Pike County Sheriff walked in the door. Talk about a bundle of nerves. I knew without a shadow of a doubt (even though I was perfectly legal) that I was going to get cuffed and hauled off to jail. As he got into line behind me with a cup of coffee, I glanced over my shoulder and to my horror the sheriff's deputy said, "How are you doin'?"

    So I said, "Fine."

    And proceeded to pay for my gas and go home.

    So, for your first encounter, I think you done good. Now that you've got your LEO "cherry" popped, you are more aware of how you react emotionally and intellectually. You may still choose to do what you have done in the future, or, you may wish to "up the ante" next time by refusing to comply with the officer's "wish" (not lawful order).

    Remember: You are the individual in the encounter. Only YOU determine how you should handle it. Whatever you choose, that is the correct way....for you. If someone else volunteers to replace you in any specific encounter, then maybe they have the right to decide what is "correct" and "incorrect".

    As far as my personal opinion, I agree with cscitney87: Maybe next time politely inform the officer that you are peacefully obeying the law and you choose to carry it openly for your own personal reasons. They are your rights. Just because a cop wants you to willingly forfiet them doesn't mean you should willingly comply.

    Key word is "tactful".

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    Thank you for that post. I really appreciate hearing your comments and i feel a little better about how i handled it now.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Post imported post

    Valcore,

    Perhaps you should remind the good officer that:

    1) You are a veteran and you have fought to defend our freedoms

    2) That because you have had to defend our freedoms they are something that you deeply cherish.

    3) That you do not know why he wants to supress your rights, but that behavior is un-American and unacceptable.

    4) That his attempt to supress the civil right to open carryunder color of law is something that he should reconsider.

    Live Free or Die,

    Thundar

    And P.S. That as a public servent he should not assume familiarity with his employerby using your first name. It is rude and unprofessional.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    Well a little follow up. I spoke with the boulder city police supervisor and he apologies for the actions of his officer and informed me he would be speaking him and will inform him of the law. He did tell me "as you know sir you are well within the law and your rights to be able to open carry or concealed carry in the state of Colorado. I'm not sure what that officer was thinking and i will be talking with him to inform him of the law."



  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    Amen! I have spoke to almost every local police department, they all have said the same in CO.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,250

    Post imported post

    I frickin Love this state! Anywhere but Denver, baby! Open Carry On!

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Douglas County, CO.
    Posts
    83

    Post imported post

    I walked into Wendy's here in Castle Rock yesterday, my gun secured in my car as I did not want the hassle of putting on and then taking off the hoster when I got to work. There sitting at two tables were a fine group of 8 Douglas County Sheriffs, from Deputies, a Srgt, and someone that had more stripes then I knew exsisted. A couple of admin folks from the jail operations as well. Frankly I was glad my gun was in the car as i did not want my cherry popped. I still am walking cautiously, and am still respectful of business owners. Now if it was Starbucks, I probably would have put it on just to p.o. some of those Brady folks.....

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long gone
    Posts
    2,575

    Post imported post

    marshaul wrote:
    First Negative Run in with a Cop.
    It's like losing your cherry in our society. Now you're a man.



    :P
    Marshaul thats just plainfunny. There are a lot of MEN on this board then.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    28

    Post imported post

    Valcore wrote:
    weaponize wrote:
    You had every right to open carry and he was in the wrong. The problem is you handled it very badly from the beginning. You let an uneducated, no it all officer take away your rights for a brief moment. You were just another sheep and by you cowering down you just incouraged this officer to try this again.

    STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS SON!

    What would you recommend should i have this experience again?

    There are several ways this could have been handled and I don't know which would be best. I'm just an avg joe like you. I do know that nothing positive came out of the way you allowed the officer to tell you what to do. Just giving some cunstructive criticism & another point of view.

    Now that you have experianced some unconstitutional injustice I hope you can learn from this experiance and from everybody else's experiances and there advice so if another situation occurs you will be more confident in standing up for yours and our rights. I believe if you decide to carry a weapon and especially OC there is great responsibility and you must be prepared the best you can for all situations because you represent what we are fighting for.


    PS I think you did a great job in calling the depts supervisor and stating your complaint.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,187

    Post imported post

    "As far as my personal opinion, I agree with cscitney87: Maybe next time politely inform the officer that you are peacefully obeying the law and you choose to carry it openly for your own personal reasons. They are your rights. Just because a cop wants you to willingly forfiet them doesn't mean you should willingly comply."
    This. You handled it very well. The only thing I would have done differently would not have CC'ed at his "suggestion". Thanking him for the suggestion was tactful and classy. But just one thing:

    "BOULDER carry permit"??????? These people really do think they are their own sovereign state outside of reality, don't they?? I work in Boulder and my lodge is there as well, and I am daily glad I don't actually live there.

    WELL done speaking to the supervisor. Won one for the rest of us sojourners into the Land that Reason Forgot!!

    At our Firestone OC gathering the officer who visited us said in the same breath, "I don't know the carry rules very well but if you have a CCW then you HAVE to CC". Yeah, familiarize yourself first, THEN tell people that.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    672

    Post imported post

    mahkagari wrote:
    At our Firestone OC gathering the officer who visited us said in the same breath, "I don't know the carry rules very well but if you have a CCW then you HAVE to CC". Yeah, familiarize yourself first, THEN tell people that.
    I don't get the bolded part. I have heard other people state that they have been told that. Over in Michigan an LE stopped the same guy multiple times for OC and each time told him that he was violating the terms of his ccw by OC'ing.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , Texas, USA
    Posts
    300

    Post imported post

    cscitney87 wrote:
    That proves everything we've been saying though about Where and Where you Cannot OC

    You CAN OC everywhere except Denver City/County- He would have arrested you on the spot and never questioned your motives for carry- if OC was illegal in Boulder. According to this officer- he confirms that it is indeed legal to Open Carry and you will indeed NOT be arrested and NOT become a Test Case.

    Officers do Not ask for things they can do themselves. "Then you don't mind if I look in your car?" They don't ask to search if they had RAS to begin with and could have legally searched the car from the get go. Same with searching your persons- they Ask if they have to.

    He confronted you and Yes you did conceal it when requested- but you were never Demanded. A demand would be "PUT YOUR HANDS ON YOUR HEAD!" because you're being detained and arrested for openly carrying in Boulder.

    So you're good to go. Carry on and Thanks a lot for the Motivation!

    cscitney87,

    This is a very broad and dangerous assumption on your part, as it fails to take manypertinent points into consideration, most importantly,the existence of a local ordinance against Open Carry.

    First, then City of Boulder does not have a clear "No Open Carry" ordinance as Denver and a few other Colorado cities do. Boulder has a vague ordinance that some have pointed to as effectively prohibiting OC, but this applicationis highly questionable. Boulder city ordinance 5-8-21 "Open Carriage of Firearms in Carrying Cases Required" state:

    Any person carrying a firearm off of the person's property or outside of the person's business or vehicle shall carry the firearm in a carrying case. The carrying case must be recognizable as a gun carrying case by a reasonable person. A plain-shaped case must be clearly marked to be deemed recognizable under this standard. The carrying case must be openly carried and must not be concealed on or about the person. This section shall not apply to individuals who have a permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to state law.

    The question raised by this ordinance has been; what constitutes a "case"? Many contend that a holster constitutes a case, thereby making open carry of aholsteredhandgunlegal. During my last trip to Boulder, I had the opportunity to talk speak withtwo Boulder police officers and I posed the question to them. Both officers agreed that a holster would meet the definition of a case, and as such, felt OC of a holstered handgun was legal in Boulder, but both discouraged thepractice, stating the likelihood of public alarm as the reason. At the same time, back when I was researching and compiling my catalog of local firearm ordinances across Colorado, I spoke to a Boulder officer by phone who informed me that open carry was illegal in Boulder, citing thesame statute andclaiming a holster did not constitute a case.

    Personally, I feel a holster does constitute a case under 5-8-21, but as you can see, it is not clear.

    A second point to consideris officer discretion. While some officers are as hard-nosed as you suggest, many are not and use their discretion in applying the law. In this case there is also thefact thatone section of theBoulder firearm chapter expresslydirectsofficers to consider the city'sability to meet their "burden of proof" and the affirmative defenses set forth under section 5-8-22 "Defenses" before making an arrest. This serves to encourage officers to be cautious inthe application offirearm related ordinances. In this case, the gentleman was cooperative, possessed a CCW permit and agreed to comply with his suggestions (legal or not), thus, the officer may have simply chosen not to press the issue.

    Another important point to consider is that shortly after the Denver ruling was handed down, the City of Boulder added section 5-8-38 "State Preemption" in which they specifically list what they recognizeto be covered (i.e. preempted) by C.R.S. 18-12-105.6 (the Colorado preemption statute) and open carry is not included (only vehicle carry is recognized, as stated in the Denver ruling). This seems to clearly indicates Boulder's intention that a home rule municipality such as Boulder can prohibit open carry, however, since they did not include a clear and specific ordinance prohibiting OC, it would appear that they did not intend to prohibit the practice.

    Currently, the only Colorado cities that I have found to haveclear ordinances against open carry areDenver,Golden, Telluride, and Vail. While the Denver and Golden ordinancesvery clearly prohibit all open carry, the Telluride and Vail ordinancesleave some room for question.

    The Telluride ordinance provides an exemption for those who possess a valid CCW permit, which does not stipulate that it only exempts CCW. As written, it seems toexempt permit holders from the application of the ordinancein general, thus, OC appears to be legal in Telluride if you possess an valid CCW permit. While this might not be their intent, it is certainly how the ordinanceis worded.

    As for Vail, their ordinance is somewhat vague, in that, it prohibitsopen carry on "public property", then specifically includes "publicparks" and "public buildings". While theordinances states "public property" and streets and sidewalks are typically considered public property, the ordinance does not clearly include these area and by specifically including parks and buildings, it leaves question as the the intent to include other areas commonly considered public property (i.e.streets and walkways).

    As for Boulder, as pointed out above, the intended application of their weird "case" ordinance is still up in the air. Personally, I feel it would be hard for them to enforce this ordinance againstOCas long as the weapon was in an actualholster (i.e. not carried in the waistband or such). As a side note, I have open carried in Boulder on several occasions without incident (but never for extended periods in public areas).

    In conclusion, the assumption that no city other than Denver can enforce a ban on OC based on the fact that Boulder did not or does notchooses todo so is absolutely wrong. The Denver ruling was based on the fact that there is no Colorado state law that expressly allows for a citizens right toopenly carry a handgun, thus, there is no state law to preempt any local ordinance against the practice. This decision, while specifically applied to theDenver case in the ruling, served to establishedstatewide case law for applyingthe preemptionstatute. Therefore,until such time that a state law is passed to expressly allow for open carry, any local government can pass and enforce an ordinance against it within their jurisdiction. Fortunately, few Colorado municipalities have chosen to do so.

    Doc

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , Texas, USA
    Posts
    300

    Post imported post

    mahkagari wrote:

    "BOULDER carry permit"??????? These people really do think they are their own sovereign state outside of reality, don't they??
    Actually, until 2003 the City of Boulder issued firearms permits. Thgis ordinance (5-8-28) was repealed in 2003 after the passage of the states shall issue CCW law.

    This makes me think the officer was an older officerwith Boulder and simply mis-spoke out of habit.

    Doc

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •