MOTORCYCLE OPEN CARRY

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Howdy! I will take the wheels off my hay wagon right away. LOL! This is some crazy stuff. I can't even put my exposed gun in my Red Flyer or whatever wagon. Pretty insane.

Doesn't anyone work around here? LOL!

Going out now to open carry in my vehicular shoes with my doggies! :celebrate

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Amish buggies are included within the definition of vehicles as defined in 340.01(74).

Why don't you people go read my posts under "Sign Petition to remove the School zone etc etc" thread.

I have been fighting the vehicle carry law for 4 years with letters to the DNR legal department, the state legislature, the Attorney general's office. As it stands my legislative representatives and the DNR legal department acknowledge that there are a number of, what I call, single passenger vehicles that are constructed in such a way that a person can not avoid the three conditions that define concealement. The only way to avoid it is to carry the firearm visible and then you are in violation of 167.31. The DNR has told me that if the firearm is properly encased IAW 167.31 the DNR will not consider the firearm concealed on such vehicles. However, the DNR also said to me that the DNR could not speak for how local law enforcement would react.

Instead fo bantering back and forth with each other. Get on the keyboard and complain to the people that can fix the problem.

And yes Mike, I have correspondence to back upmy comments.

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Legal :celebrate

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Lammie, you are correct about the idiotic laws on the books and yes, I am sure myself and Knight both know what the laws are. A few days ago I researched all the vehicle, motor vehicle, concealed, encased etc...laws and posted a rather large post concerning what a vehicle is IAW the laws and how we are required to transport our firearms in such said "vehicles". One law takes you one way and dumps you on another and on and on and on. When I was a programmer way back when the only way I could navigate through these messy laws is by writing a flowchart.

As for writing my elected reps. Oh...do I. I write at least ten letters a week and sometimes more. I spend all my time campaigning for our rights and freedoms and yes, many of my friends and neighbors tend to distance themselves due to all the attention I sometimes draw. Not only do I write, I also call the scoundrels and give them my two cents in a rational, articulate way. Ranting will get me nowhere. I fly my American, Gadsden flag and another version of the Gadsden flag every day.

As for our discussion about the bicycle, shoes and the definition of a vehicle it is friendly bantering back and forth. All of us agree we MUST repeal these laws and it isn't easy. I think most of these laws will have to be forced off the books with lawsuits which I am sure none of us can afford individually but as a group I am sure we can.

I applaud everyone for working hard with their elected and un-elected legislators to fix this mess and short of moving to a more friendly gun owner state what else can we do but what we already are doing?

Onward we go...

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+1000 ^^^^



i write my reps and senators as well.



"the squeaky wheel gets the grease"

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The phone call back from the DNR indicated that after checking with their legaldepartment, neither a Big Dog noran Emu (or a horse) are vehicles and you may hunt from the back of your Big Dog, etc. which logically means that you will have a loaded firearm not encased (Open Carry)while riding .....

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Sweet! Gotta saddle up Ole Sheeba, my Arabian mare! LOL!

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

The phone call back from the DNR indicated that after checking with their legaldepartment, neither a Big Dog noran Emu (or a horse) are vehicles and you may hunt from the back of your Big Dog, etc. which logically means that you will have a loaded firearm not encased (Open Carry)while riding .....

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Guess i will sell my HD and buy a horse lmao :what:then tell the leo "damned horse can not read school zone signs"

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Lammie wrote:

Amish buggies are included within the definition of vehicles as defined in 340.01(74).

Why don't you people go read my posts under "Sign Petition to remove the School zone etc etc" thread.

I have been fighting the vehicle carry law for 4 years with letters to the DNR legal department, the state legislature, the Attorney general's office. As it stands my legislative representatives and the DNR legal department acknowledge that there are a number of, what I call, single passenger vehicles that are constructed in such a way that a person can not avoid the three conditions that define concealement. The only way to avoid it is to carry the firearm visible and then you are in violation of 167.31. The DNR has told me that if the firearm is properly encased IAW 167.31 the DNR will not consider the firearm concealed on such vehicles. However, the DNR also said to me that the DNR could not speak for how local law enforcement would react.

Instead fo bantering back and forth with each other. Get on the keyboard and complain to the people that can fix the problem.

And yes Mike, I have correspondence to back upmy comments.

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The DNR only controls DNR Administrative code which no longer contains language regarding safe transportation or concealed carry.

You have several posts in that thread... Is it the one where you list your letter?

These threads are a process of education for those not intimate with the Statutes.

You can only write so many letters to the same people. What is even more effective than impersonal letter writing is personal conversation. I will be attending a legislative breakfast later in the month where I will speak face to face with some of our current and potentially future representatives....

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rcawdor57 wrote:

As for our discussion about the bicycle, shoes and the definition of a vehicle it is friendly bantering back and forth. All of us agree we MUST repeal these laws and it isn't easy. I think most of these laws will have to be forced off the books with lawsuits which I am sure none of us can afford individually but as a group I am sure we can.

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About bicycles, it may be bantering to you.

To me it quite seriously impacts my $20,000 investment in four bicycles and tricycles, our Green Gear Bike Friday Doubleday folding tandem recumbent, her Green Gear Bike Friday Air Glide and our two Greenspeed tricycles (not to mention accessory commitments like, for instance, the $1000+ I just spent for a new Draftmaster car rack).

I am hardly interested in affording a group that acts in the interests of the lowest common denominator only! It is better to work towards the un-infringed Second Amendment only and be discrete on other interests lest all doubt be removed.

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For those of you that are proactive GOOD! I hope I irritated some of the rest of you enough so youget active. And, yes Beretta--- the Squeaky Wheel Does get the grease.

IK I do understand the different authorities between the DNR and local law enforcement. My comment was suggesting that a big part of our problem is unequal opinion and enforcement of statutes between law enforcement agencies, which puts us right in the middle.

Perhaps the letter I wrote to Sen. Decker on page one of the thread "Vehicle carry" would be of more interest to you.

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Lammie wrote:

For those of you that are proactive GOOD! I hope I irritated some of the rest of you enough so youget active. And, yes Beretta--- the Squeaky Wheel Does get the grease.

IK I do understand the different authorities between the DNR and local law enforcement. My comment was suggesting that a big part of our problem is unequal opinion and enforcement of statutes between law enforcement agencies, which puts us right in the middle.

Perhaps the letter I wrote to Sen. Decker on page one of the thread "Vehicle carry" would be of more interest to you.

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Correct me if I am wrong but vehicle carry is in reference to motorized vehicles and in particular vehicles rated for highway travel. That would leave wagons, carts and buggies out of the equation unless they were pushed/pulled by a motorized vehicle. Bicycles are not motorized therefore should not be considered a vehicle for the purposes of open carry. I'm going on dinosaur memory from something I read a long time ago.

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340.01(74)
(74) "Vehicle" means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except railroad trains. A snowmobile or electric personal assistive mobility device shall not be considered a vehicle except for purposes made specifically applicable by statute.

(h) "Vehicle" has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (74), and includes a snowmobile, as defined in s.340.01 (58a), and an electric personal assistive mobility device, as defined in s. 340.01 (15pm), except that for purposes of subs. (4) (c) and (cq) and (4m) "vehicle" has the meaning given for "motor vehicle" in s. 29.001 (57).

(57) "Motor vehicle" means a self-propelled vehicle, including a combination of 2 or more vehicles or an articulated vehicle. "Motor vehicle" includes a snowmobile or an all-terrain vehicle. "Motor vehicle" does not include an aircraft, a vehicle operated exclusively on rails, or an electric personal assisitive mobility device.

These laws are a mess! Basically you can see that just about ANYTHING can be a "vehicle" under the law including bicycles. It's a good thing I don't have a $20,000 bicycle!

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Old Grump wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but vehicle carry is in reference to motorized vehicles and in particular vehicles rated for highway travel. That would leave wagons, carts and buggies out of the equation unless they were pushed/pulled by a motorized vehicle. Bicycles are not motorized therefore should not be considered a vehicle for the purposes of open carry. I'm going on dinosaur memory from something I read a long time ago.

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“Vehicle” means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway.

If you go back to page 1 of this thread, you will see the Statutes referenced. WI uses the term "vehicle" and the term "motor vehicle" seperately. The term Motor Vehicle is used for the DUI law. The term Vehicleis used for the safe transportation of weapons law. It does not have to be in the act of being pulled (drawn upon a highway) at the time. It does not have to be "legal" for highway travel. A wagon with nothing pulling it at a particular moment in time is still a vehicle according toWI Stautes in reference to thethe requirement that firearms beunloaded and encased.

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I did read it from the beginning and it makes no sense to call a wagon, cart or buggy a vehicle unless it is being moved via some power source whether it be motor or animal, (that includes 2 legged homo sapiens), and the vehicle or wagon is legal for public roads use. I think the definition is being stretched way out into the realm of fantasy. Skate boards, little Red Ryder wagons, shopping carts, wheel chairs???? Maybe in Tom Barrets world but not in the world I come from.

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From the FAQ http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/faq.htm

I want to useasomething with wheels (Red Ryder Wagon) as a hunting blind, is this legal?
It is illegal to possess a loaded or uncased firearm or bow in a vehicle or to shoot from a vehicle; therefore, it is illegal to use a vehicle as a hunting blind or stand, unless you are a disabled hunter with the appropriate permit. Vehicle means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway or other roadway. However, if you render a blind or stand with wheels incapable of transportation- remove one or more wheels from aHay Wagon (or Red Ryder Wagon)or put a car without a motor up on blocks, for instance, it would no longer be considered a “vehicle” and could then be used as a blind or stand.

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