• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Verizon Wireless Hates 2nd Ammendment

wwgreene

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
17
Location
, ,
imported post

No anger, just facts and experiences. If you interpret passion, logic, facts, experience and point-of-view as anger, then you have misunderstood me. If you want anger, then let's go play some hockey together and you will soon be able to differentiate between anger and passion very quickly and distinctly.
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

wwgreene wrote:
No anger, just facts and experiences. If you interpret passion, logic, facts, experience and point-of-view as anger, then you have misunderstood me. If you want anger, then let's go play some hockey together and you will soon be able to differentiate between anger and passion very quickly and distinctly.

So what happened between you and the customer/dispatcher?

Why did you ask him to s-l-o-w-l-y and c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y show his credentials?

Did you pull your gun on him or something?
 

wwgreene

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
17
Location
, ,
imported post

Can financial obligations to the company creating the contract cause one to be under duress? Can the fact that you will not be allowed to continue in your chosen profession, if a contract is not signed, be considered duress? Can the fact that you do not have the financialresources necessary to sever a contractual obligation be considered duress?
 

wwgreene

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
17
Location
, ,
imported post

Can financial obligations to the company creating the contract cause one to be under duress? Can the fact that you will not be allowed to continue in your chosen profession, if a contract is not signed, be considered duress? Can the fact that you do not have the financialresources necessary to sever a contractual obligation be considered duress?
 

Lurchiron

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
1,011
Location
Shawano,WI.
imported post

HankT wrote:
wwgreene wrote:
No anger, just facts and experiences. If you interpret passion, logic, facts, experience and point-of-view as anger, then you have misunderstood me. If you want anger, then let's go play some hockey together and you will soon be able to differentiate between anger and passion very quickly and distinctly.

So what happened between you and the customer/dispatcher?

Why did you ask him to s-l-o-w-l-y and c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y show his credentials?

Did you pull your gun on him or something?
Jeez Hank, I guess he's not not up to answering your questions.
 

Lurchiron

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
1,011
Location
Shawano,WI.
imported post

wwgreene wrote:
Can financial obligations to the company creating the contract cause one to be under duress? Can the fact that you will not be allowed to continue in your chosen profession, if a contract is not signed, be considered duress? Can the fact that you do not have the financialresources necessary to sever a contractual obligation be considered duress?

Not after the fact, I believe; sorry.

Go Blackhawks, go...
 

wwgreene

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
17
Location
, ,
imported post

So, do you have a law degree? If so, are you legally able to practice law? And if you do legally practice law,do you specialize in contract and/or constitutional law?
 

CarryOpen

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
379
Location
, ,
imported post

What does this even have to do with open carry? Were you openly carrying your shotgun the store or just threatening people with it?
 

Lurchiron

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
1,011
Location
Shawano,WI.
imported post

wwgreene wrote:
So, do you have a law degree? If so, are you legally able to practice law? And if you do legally practice law,do you specialize in contract and/or constitutional law?

I specialize in common sense; and that would be a NOto the sheepskin on the wall thingy...

ALWAYS thrust, to parry is for pu**ies...next stop_500_
 

John Pierce

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,777
imported post

I am working on a law degree but am not currently licensed to practice law so what follows is a law student's OPINION and not legal advice or the practice of law.

However, I believe that I can answer your questions as well as make a few relevant comments.

1) This is a contracts issue only. It has NOTHING to do with constitutional law.

2) Contracts entered into under economic duress are deemed voidable but are not void from inception and may be subsequently implicitly ratified by the purported victim by accepting benefits of the contract, remaining silent after the opportunity to disavow or rendering performance. See Hyman v. Ford Motor Co., 142 F. Supp 2d 735 (D.S.C. 2001) It sounds to me like you had a valid contract regardless of whether there was economic duress at its inception because, by your own admission, you performed for years under your contract and accepted the benefits thereof, never once voicing your dis-affirmation of the contract. In my opinion, no court will find otherwise.

3) I agree with HankT on this one. There is a LOT more to this story than we know and without all of the details, any further discussion seems pointless.


John

wwgreene wrote:
So, do you have a law degree? If so, are you legally able to practice law? And if you do legally practice law,do you specialize in contract and/or constitutional law?
 

wwgreene

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
17
Location
, ,
imported post

1. Although you are not a professional lawyer, thank you for your opinion.

2. The factsas I stated them are pretty much the whole issue, even the individuals statements concurs with my facts on a point-by-point basis. a. He verbally threatened to use physical violence (even though its claimed not to be directed at me), b. He tried to impersonate a police official, even though he is simply a dispatcher working for the sheriff's department c. Verizon never made any attemp to listen to the sheriff's departmentor their internal investigation, and d. Verizon cancelled my contract without notice or arbitration, which it calls forto resolvedisputes.

3. Contracts are signed into every three years between Verizon and their agents. However, before Verizon will sign a contract with any agent, the agent musthavecurrent andappovedleased locations, whichVerizon DOESNOT pay the leases on, $1,000,000 liability insurance per location, etc....this, to me, is a fair amount of duress.

4. If Verizon, for any reason, cancels your contract, you are not allowed to work in any industry that competes against them for two years.

5. Also, if you are sure there are more facts to the case, why so quick to give an opinion? Bottom line, attorneys, in my view, are scared of the big boys with deep pockets and are not as interested in the law as they are the money. When young and naive, young students want to change the world. Then, when they realize the golden rule, those who have the gold make the rules, they idea of justice being equal becomes a distant memory.
 

CarryOpen

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
379
Location
, ,
imported post

You will want to check into your non-competition agreement. They cannot take away your sole means of making a living, as far as I know. In other words, if running a cell phone store is your skilled trade, they can't fire you then bar you from competing.
 

John Pierce

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,777
imported post

Exactly what CarryOpen said. The non-compete will not hold water.

CarryOpen wrote:
You will want to check into your non-competition agreement. They cannot take away your sole means of making a living, as far as I know. In other words, if running a cell phone store is your skilled trade, they can't fire you then bar you from competing.
 

wwgreene

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
17
Location
, ,
imported post

Again, thanks for the insight. However, back to the golden rule; unless you have the gold, you can't make/change the rules. And to make my case, I give you a simple example: Exxon was order to pay billions, not millions,for the Valdez oil spill distaster in Alaska, if you recall. To this very day, Exxon has tied this settlement process up in the court system costing Alaskans, government, industries, etc...millions upon millions of legal fees to collect what is rightfully theirs, which they may NEVER recover. The reason I know, because one of my family members is involved, asthecpa of a large firm, in what was supposed to be the oversight of the distribution of funds by the courts. Bottom line, you and I do not play, nor ever will, by the same rules as the huge, mulitinational companies. Hence, if you can't beat em, join em!!
 

tekshogun

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,052
Location
Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
imported post

wwgreene wrote:
I was a Verizon Wireless Dealer for 12+ years and had my contract revoked, without notice,because I had a shotgun in MY PERSONAL STORE -THAT IS MY PERSONAL PROPERTY....Verizon Wireless has agents, who they contract with and never provided security for, but don't have a security solution for angry, hostile VERIZON WIRLELESS customers. Last October, a violent, rude, threatening VERIZON WIRELESS CUSTOMER,who had never been in my stores before,entered my location in Walkertown, NC and startedmaking physical threats to me, my business, my familyand VERIZON WIRELESS EMPLOYEES. As any normal person, who has been robbed at gunpoint previously would do, I let him know their was a shotgun on location. After I warned and forewarned him of the consequence of his actions, he told me he worked for the local SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT!!!! When asked to slowly, carefully show me his credentials, he said he was a 911 dispatcher!!!!!!! Without allowing the aforementioned Sherrif's department to finish their internal investigation, VERIZON WIRELESS TERIMITATED MY CONTRACT!!!!!!! HELP ME!!!!!!!! Verizon Wireless is an extremely large, arrogant, lawyer-loaded corporation that runs over anyone and anything. Any suggestion or help, large or small, would be appreciated.Email wwgreene wrote:
It states nothing in my contract about protecting my business, my life, my employees ormy property. The contract allows Verizon Wireless, without notice, to cancel your contract for any reason they feel is "unbecoming" to them. Again, this is a LARGE corporation with, essentially, unlimited funds to do as they please, how they please; ie. with money, you canbuy anything. Want to argue semantics, you better have deep, deep, deep pockets my amigo, because the legal system is on the side of $$$$!!! Mama told me, life aint fair, so I deal with it and move on!!! Remember, too,we carry LARGE amounts of cash in our stores on any given day....
Well, if Verizon can cancel your contract for just about any reason, you signed it, live with it. You can alwasy sue them. What do you expect any of us to do? If they don't want to do business with you, so be it. I am not trying to be mean or rude, but that is life...

wwgreene wrote:
When someone threatens you or your associates with possible physical harm or death, then, acting like they are all-of-sudden your 'knight in shining armour", your suspicion and alertness raise to a whole new level. Obviously, you are either inexperienced with the general public or have never been in a life-or-death situation.
And next time someone verbally threatens you, it would be best not to threaten back with mention of a gun. This is not a legal issue, no, it is common sense not to put your cards out in the open. Otherwise, in the future, put the shot gun on the counter or sling it around your shoulder and make it known when they walk in.

wwgreene wrote:
And further, Iwas associated with MANY, MANY law enforcement officials (police, FBI, SBI and State Troopers), and they NEVER, EVERbehaved in any manner remotely close to the way this individual did at that particular time in over twelve years!!!!!!! Had they, they would have been under investigation IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!
Um, ok.

wwgreene wrote:
The UNITED STATES has air marshalls on their domestic and international flights, along with the TSA, and they STILL CANNOT STOP PEOPLE FROM DOING IRRATIONAL AND VERY DANGEROUS ACTS!!!! Wake up and quit trying blame hard-working, honest, law-abiding citizens for wanting to protect themselves and the problems therein!
What are you talking about?

wwgreene wrote:
When I got into the wireless industry, invested a large amount of money twelve plus years ago, I NEVER IMAGINED THAT OUR COUNTRY WOULD BE IN SUCH A STATE OF CHAOS AND LAWLESSNESS. You do not invest time and money in an otherwise stabel enviroment, expecting to have to defend yourself from wacko customers, who UNLOAD THEIR ANGER ON UNSUSPECTING VICTIMS WITH DEATH AND DEATH THREATS!!! And if you don't want to believe me, ask any school teacher what their greatest fear is EVERY, SINGLE DAY!!!!
I loved my teachers, and show all teacher great respect and admiration. I was a sophomore in high school when the Columbine Shooting occured and I can tell you, to this very day, the single greatest fear of any teacher is failing one of their students. This country is not of great lawlessness and chaos. Politics have always been chaotic, it was designed that way. Just reading the Articles of the Constitution will teach you that. If you want lawlessness and chaos, there are quite a few other countries you can go check out.

wwgreene wrote:
Simply replying to threads. If that is all you get out of it, then I recommed yougo back to the beginningof the threadandread more carefully. Or, if you need further understanding and enlightment, email me directly for step-by-step instructions.

Have you been reading your own posts? Just tell us what happened, exactly what happened!

wwgreene wrote:
No anger, just facts and experiences. If you interpret passion, logic, facts, experience and point-of-view as anger, then you have misunderstood me. If you want anger, then let's go play some hockey together and you will soon be able to differentiate between anger and passion very quickly and distinctly.
How about rugby?

wwgreene wrote:
Can financial obligations to the company creating the contract cause one to be under duress? Can the fact that you will not be allowed to continue in your chosen profession, if a contract is not signed, be considered duress? Can the fact that you do not have the financialresources necessary to sever a contractual obligation be considered duress?
....What?

wwgreene wrote:
No gun was pulled or pointed at anyone.
Didn't pull the gun, not willing to pull the gun, situation didn't cause for a gun to be pulled, tis why you shouldn't mention having a gun. Let the perpetrator shoot themselves in the foot, not your self.

wwgreene wrote:
So, do you have a law degree? If so, are you legally able to practice law? And if you do legally practice law,do you specialize in contract and/or constitutional law?
Did you read your contract before you signed it? Did you have a lawyer or CPA read the contract before you signed it? Were you advised on what the contract meant by a qualified personbesides a representative of Verizon Wireless?

wwgreene wrote:
1. Although you are not a professional lawyer, thank you for your opinion.

2. The factsas I stated them are pretty much the whole issue, even the individuals statements concurs with my facts on a point-by-point basis. a. He verbally threatened to use physical violence (even though its claimed not to be directed at me), b. He tried to impersonate a police official, even though he is simply a dispatcher working for the sheriff's department c. Verizon never made any attemp to listen to the sheriff's departmentor their internal investigation, and d. Verizon cancelled my contract without notice or arbitration, which it calls forto resolvedisputes.

3. Contracts are signed into every three years between Verizon and their agents. However, before Verizon will sign a contract with any agent, the agent musthavecurrent andappovedleased locations, whichVerizon DOESNOT pay the leases on, $1,000,000 liability insurance per location, etc....this, to me, is a fair amount of duress.

4. If Verizon, for any reason, cancels your contract, you are not allowed to work in any industry that competes against them for two years.

5. Also, if you are sure there are more facts to the case, why so quick to give an opinion? Bottom line, attorneys, in my view, are scared of the big boys with deep pockets and are not as interested in the law as they are the money. When young and naive, young students want to change the world. Then, when they realize the golden rule, those who have the gold make the rules, they idea of justice being equal becomes a distant memory.
Have you made an honest attempt to find out from Verizon what their issue with you is exactly?

I still don't get fully what your argument is besides the fact that you had an irrate customer, you threatened use of a shotgun against their verbal threats which may or may not have been directed at you, Verizon canceled your contract for some reason, probably because of this situation and regardless of the Sheriff's investigation.
 

wwgreene

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
17
Location
, ,
imported post

1. We are talking about potentially violent, threatening customers, not politics.

2.I lived outside the US for four years, and no country that I lived inever had students, that I was ever aware of,shooting up their schools, blowing up their schools, disgruntled employees shooting up their workplace, blowing up their workplace, people trying to poison co-workers and government officials, armed robbers, with automatic weapons, shooting up an entire police force (LA) and people flying multiple planes into multiple buildings. Granted, I never lived in Mexico or Columbia, where drug lords and violence reign, but I am well awareof violence in other parts of the world.

3. How many teachers do you know and how many of them have you polled about their fears? Many of my college professors and high school teachers often told classes that, if you didn't keep up and put out your best work, chances are that you would fail. In college, when I had to repeat a difficult accounting class because of a low grade, my teacher showed no outward remorse. Just my view in a family ofprofessors and cpas.

4. My contract was cancelled for having a firearm in my store. If I tell you to leave my store, and you don't, you are then trespassing. If I call the police and tell you that I am calling the police, and you tell me that you are the police, what would you have me do? A 911 dispatcher, after all, should carrysome burden of knowing not to ever, ever make violent threats over a stupid cell phone or ever let a situation like this escalate! I have never in my life walked into a place of business and threatened anyone, verbally or physically, for any reason.

4. Do I have the right to keep a firearm, whether displayed or not, on my private property for protection? The Sheriff's department and my attorney think is was perfectly within my rights. In fact, a bank had just been robbed across the street a month prior (a ten year old boy was taken hostage), and a day prior to my incident, two police officers were shot and killed ten miles up the road. And this is the 'better' side of town. Not to mention, there had beentwo wireless businesses robbed within two weeks prior.

5. After repeated attempts by me and my attorney, Verizon will not talk with us.

6. I am not asking for sympathy, just suggestions.

7. I don't have all the answers, just simply sharing the experience.

8. When you want to play rugby, email me privately and I will give you my address and directions.

9. Have you ever been robbed at gunpoint? Have you ever been in tense situation, where violent threats were communicated,and had to make a quick decision. Afterthe fact, we can always look back and see how to do things better. Hence, why we have so manypunditsand spinsters.

10.In some situations, unbeknowst to customers, verizon has contracted security officers in their stores. Unfortunately,I did not have the financial resources to pay for professional security.
 

John Pierce

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,777
imported post

Mr Greene,

You keep talking about 'rights' and self-defense in the same sentence as your cancellation by Verizon. They are 2 separate issues and you have to address them as such.

1) You were legal and within your rights to possess the firearm. You have noted the sheriff told you so and the fact that you have not been criminally charged validates that. Therefore, your rights protected you as they are intended to do.

2) You have a contract issue with Verizon and they don't want to hear about 'rights' because it doesn't bear on the issue with them at all and trying to make it so will only hurt your cause and make you appear even more 'unbecoming' in their eyes.

3) If I were you I would ask my attorney to focus on the non-compete clause and the case law in my jurisdiction and prepare me a memo giving his or her best opinion as to how binding the clause is. I suspect the answer is 'not very'. With this in hand, I would move on to other cellular resale opportunities.

Just my opinion.


John
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

And then file the case as necessary.

If Verizon chooses not to acknowledge or entertain, then you have won by default.

If they do show up, mop the floor with them.:D
 

tekshogun

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,052
Location
Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
imported post

1. No, actually, we were talking about why you lost your contract, you originally brought up the other stuff.

2. I don't know where you lived for four years, but I can assure you that all these things have been happening in other countries for just as long if not longer. You mind telling me where you lived? If it is any place with modern society, I'm sure we can find some stories of crime there, unless you want to pick something like Singapore....

3. I could ask the same about you regarding teachers and their fears. Plus, I was more referring to K-12 teachers, not college instructors. Few college instructors/professors are actually teachers.

4. No one here questioned whether you have the right to have your shotgun. In fact, we all recognize that you do as did your lawyers and the Sheriff's department.

5. In the State of North Carolina, a 911 Dispatcher is not a police officer, unless they have been deputized. If they are trespassing, then they are there illegally. You call the police, period. If police are trespassing and are conducting business on your property without due process of law, they are breaking the law. Speak to a supervisor if yu have to or call a another authority in your jurisdiction, but in this case, it was a 911 Dispatcher... there is nothing formal about that.

6. My suggestion, sue them. If you can't afford to sue them or you don't want to, what can you do? You don't appear to have many options here.

7. We appreciate the experience, but we're trying to help you with your suggestions, we're just trying to find out the entire situation at hand.

8. Address and directoins? That's carrying it a little too far, you know, a soccer field would do.

9. I have never been robbed at gun point. I have had a loaded handgun intentionally pointed at me. I have had verbal threats communicated to me in person. I have been unnecessarilyassaulted physically. I have been in situations where other people were being physically assaulted. In those various situations, I have reacted differently, they all occured prior to my carrying a firearm, so I have had to deal with these situations without any practical means of protection and I always think about how I could have handled my self differently or what it would have been like if I had a firearm. I don't take my past experiences for granted.

10. Verizon can contract whom ever they want as long as it is legal, to provide security. Usually that means, for their protection, bonded and/or certified security pesonnel. As you get to know me, I have Laissez-faire leanings.
 
Top