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FOX News on OC

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

Bailenforcer wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
So your saying we can open carry in a store and tell the owner to go screw himself...Yeah right. If that was the case trespass would not be enforceable.

This is the case for other things - like being told to leave because of Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, etc.

That doesn't mean that trespass is unenforceable.

Besides, if your building isn't open to the public, maybe you shouldn't have hours where you're "open" and hours when you're "closed."
BINGO!

Great point the mere posting of hours of business invites the public. This you invite them with RIGHTS INTACT!

Good post.

That said,

I don't necessarily agree with you. I should have the right, as a business owner, to prevent certain kinds of speech that is normally protected by the first. I don't want someone promoting a competitor in my store, for instance.

As a private property owner, I have the choice of making the rules, and you have the choice of patronizing. You don't like my rules, then you don't enter my premises.


Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability - all of those are things that are supposedly not controllable (I say supposedly because people disagree on the sexual orientation one, even if I don't). You can control what you say, what you wear, what you bring with you.
 

jeremiahJohnson

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Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
375
Location
fenton, Michigan, USA
imported post

Bailenforcer wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
So your saying we can open carry in a store and tell the owner to go screw himself...Yeah right. If that was the case trespass would not be enforceable.
You use the Karl Marx argument from intimidation tactic well. Where did I say go anywhere and tell any to go screw himself?

Instead of arguing MERITS you quickly retreat to attack mode. Interesting tactic. You act like the very people who wish to take our rights away with such inflamitory rhetoric but you never argue the valid point.

Try again maybe you can accuse me of being a baby killer next time?

Gotta love the " I have no answer so I will accuse" tactic.
what exactly is the 1) intimidation you speak of, and when did I 2) attack you, and the 3) accusation that you speak of? I expect three examples to correspond with each question i just asked. And the answers have to be things I actually typed out under my Site ID
 

Bailenforcer

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Joined
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Messages
1,077
Location
City
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CrossPistols wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
So your saying we can open carry in a store and tell the owner to go screw himself...Yeah right. If that was the case trespass would not be enforceable.
You use the Karl Marx argument from intimidation tactic well. Where did I say go anywhere and tell any to go screw himself?

Instead of arguing MERITS you quickly retreat to attack mode. Interesting tactic. You act like the very people who wish to take our rights away with such inflamitory rhetoric but you never argue the valid point.

Try again maybe you can accuse me of being a baby killer next time?

Gotta love the " I have no answer so I will accuse" tactic.
what exactly is the 1) intimidation you speak of, and when did I 2) attack you, and the 3) accusation that you speak of? I expect three examples to correspond with each question i just asked. And the answers have to be things I actually typed out under my Site ID
More falacious arguments.


""So your saying"" is an acusation and you know it, let's not turn this into an English lesson. Quit pretending.

I didn't say intimidation I said "argument FROM intimidation"

It was a Hegalian Tactic to smear someone by inference and thus make them defend themselves.

Like if I would say in the middle of my argument ""Have you stopped beating your wife?""

I am sure you can see how this puts people on the defense because you use the same tactic. Let's quit pretending.
 

Bailenforcer

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Joined
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City
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
So your saying we can open carry in a store and tell the owner to go screw himself...Yeah right. If that was the case trespass would not be enforceable.

This is the case for other things - like being told to leave because of Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, etc.

That doesn't mean that trespass is unenforceable.

Besides, if your building isn't open to the public, maybe you shouldn't have hours where you're "open" and hours when you're "closed."
BINGO!

Great point the mere posting of hours of business invites the public. This you invite them with RIGHTS INTACT!

Good post.

That said,

I don't necessarily agree with you. I should have the right, as a business owner, to prevent certain kinds of speech that is normally protected by the first. I don't want someone promoting a competitor in my store, for instance.

As a private property owner, I have the choice of making the rules, and you have the choice of patronizing. You don't like my rules, then you don't enter my premises.


Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability - all of those are things that are supposedly not controllable (I say supposedly because people disagree on the sexual orientation one, even if I don't). You can control what you say, what you wear, what you bring with you.
The peach you speak of is a deliberate act of stealing your business, thus of course.

My owning or carry of a gun does NOT violate your rights. Your prevention of my excercise thereof does in fact violate mine.

Be careful you are making great points for the ANTI OC people, even if falacious.
 

jeremiahJohnson

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Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
375
Location
fenton, Michigan, USA
imported post

Bailenforcer wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
So your saying we can open carry in a store and tell the owner to go screw himself...Yeah right. If that was the case trespass would not be enforceable.
You use the Karl Marx argument from intimidation tactic well. Where did I say go anywhere and tell any to go screw himself?

Instead of arguing MERITS you quickly retreat to attack mode. Interesting tactic. You act like the very people who wish to take our rights away with such inflamitory rhetoric but you never argue the valid point.

Try again maybe you can accuse me of being a baby killer next time?

Gotta love the " I have no answer so I will accuse" tactic.
what exactly is the 1) intimidation you speak of, and when did I 2) attack you, and the 3) accusation that you speak of? I expect three examples to correspond with each question i just asked. And the answers have to be things I actually typed out under my Site ID
More falacious arguments.


""So your saying"" is an acusation and you know it, let's not turn this into an English lesson. Quit pretending.
Now who is using rhetoric, and avoiding the Question with pointless replies. Your just like to stir the pot. Do you use a wooden spoon, or a ladle?

:celebrate
 

jeremiahJohnson

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fenton, Michigan, USA
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All I was saying is by your argument OC is legal in any store regardless of the owners signs. Hell if your right great! I win, you win, we all win!. I never attacked or made any accusations. I was sarcastically saying Cool.

But I am not gonna be the teat rat for that one.
 

Bailenforcer

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Joined
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Messages
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City
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CrossPistols wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
So your saying we can open carry in a store and tell the owner to go screw himself...Yeah right. If that was the case trespass would not be enforceable.
You use the Karl Marx argument from intimidation tactic well. Where did I say go anywhere and tell any to go screw himself?

Instead of arguing MERITS you quickly retreat to attack mode. Interesting tactic. You act like the very people who wish to take our rights away with such inflamitory rhetoric but you never argue the valid point.

Try again maybe you can accuse me of being a baby killer next time?

Gotta love the " I have no answer so I will accuse" tactic.
what exactly is the 1) intimidation you speak of, and when did I 2) attack you, and the 3) accusation that you speak of? I expect three examples to correspond with each question i just asked. And the answers have to be things I actually typed out under my Site ID
More falacious arguments.


""So your saying"" is an acusation and you know it, let's not turn this into an English lesson. Quit pretending.
Now who is using rhetoric, and avoiding the Question with pointless replies. Your just like to stir the pot. Do you use a wooden spoon, or a ladle?

:celebrate
Wow you can't even stay with the point, you keep diverting the subject matter. You asked the question and I answered it with truth.

Want to get back on point or shall you accuse more? So I am saying what now?
 

Bailenforcer

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Joined
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Messages
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City
imported post

CrossPistols wrote:
All I was saying is by your argument OC is legal in any store regardless of the owners signs. Hell if your right great! I win, you win, we all win!. I never attacked or made any accusations. I was sarcastically saying Cool.

But I am not gonna be the teat rat for that one.
Sarcasm does not translate in text or fonts and you should know this.

Thus I never use Sarcasm unless I point it out as such.

Time to eat dinner will be back, and yes we do win if he are right headed about the Founding Fathers Clear intent.
 

scot623

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Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
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You may wish to access another's private property in order to gather information to publish online. However, while there are (rare) circumstances in which the law will condone your entry onto private property without permission, in general you do not have any right to enter the private property of others without their consent. You should read this section in conjunction with the section on Trespass in order to understand the issue of consent.

Types of Private Property

Residences: The term "private property" encompasses a wide variety of places, from homes to businesses open to the public. Courts are highly unsympathetic to those who try to gather news in private homes without consent, and if you enter a private home without permission, you may be liable for invasion of privacy, trespass and, in certain cases, intentional infliction of emotional distress.

In the 1940s, the Supreme Court took on the issue of "company towns" with regard to the First Amendment. Although the company town was private property owned by the company, the fact that it had been opened up to use by the public generally made it subject to the constitutional requirements of the First Amendment. Marsh v. Alabama, 326 U.S. 501 (1946).

Today, there are fewer company towns; however, private, gated residential communities may occupy a similar niche. Visitors seeking access to a private residential community must usually announce themselves at the gate or receive permission from the development's security guards in order to enter. It's often a wise idea to seek permission before entering such a community. But even if you do not express permission, your right to access will be strongest if the private residential community opens its gates to the public at large. See the section on Access to Public Property in this guide for more information.

Businesses: If you try to access businesses that do not open themselves up to the public, you may be liable for trespass. However, as a member of the public you will be able to access businesses open to the public without fear of liability. Your right of access does not necessarily translate into a right to gather information while you are there. The business has given you consent to use the premises as a patron, and your actions need to be within the scope of that use.

For example, a restaurant consents to your presence for you to enjoy eating a lovely meal in the company of good friends. In this scenario, taking notes about the food, ambiance, and service may be fine, whereas approaching other diners for interviews or for photographs likely oversteps the scope of the restaurant's consent, and you could be liable for trespass. See the Trespass section in this guide for more information. Note that you may only access the areas of the business that are open to the public. Continuing our example, while you can enter a restaurant, you cannot go to the kitchen without additional permission.

Shopping malls have come to occupy a place in modern communities akin to the town square or main street and thus are arguably public, rather than private, in nature. But unlike the traditional public forum of a town square, these establishments are privately owned places of business. Since the Supreme Court's decision in PruneYard Shopping Center v. Robins, 447 U.S. 74 (1980), stating that there is no constitutional right to free speech in a private shopping mall, the law of access to shopping malls has largely been left to the states. State courts vary on the question of whether to allow access to shopping malls. Those that do find them to be public or quasi-public forums still note that owners may impose reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on expression, provided the regulations are content-neutral, narrowly tailored, and leave open sufficient alternative channels of communication.

If you want to go to a shopping mall and gather information, try to avoid disrupting business activities. For example, it would be better to approach people walking in the corridors of the mall, or in the food court, than to station yourself at the door of a store and attempt to talk to everyone entering or exiting.

http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/access-private-property

I don't care what you say, the Supreme courts descicions are the law of the land. Of course you can fight through the lower courts in the hopes your case will someday be heard by the Supreme Court and they will reverse their earlier decision. Good luck. So as stated above, if the Supreme Court ruled the 1st amendment goes out the window in a mall, certainly the 2nd goes with it. I imagine that would apply to all businesses open to the public.
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
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Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Bailenforcer wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
That said,

I don't necessarily agree with you. I should have the right, as a business owner, to prevent certain kinds of speech that is normally protected by the first. I don't want someone promoting a competitor in my store, for instance.

As a private property owner, I have the choice of making the rules, and you have the choice of patronizing. You don't like my rules, then you don't enter my premises.


Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability - all of those are things that are supposedly not controllable (I say supposedly because people disagree on the sexual orientation one, even if I don't). You can control what you say, what you wear, what you bring with you.
The peach you speak of is a deliberate act of stealing your business, thus of course.

My owning or carry of a gun does NOT violate your rights. Your prevention of my excercise thereof does in fact violate mine.

Be careful you are making great points for the ANTI OC people, even if falacious.

What about my rights as a private property owner? The right to bear arms and the right to own property are the two base rights of freedom.

The right to dictate what actions are deemed acceptable on my property is not trumped by your right to do whatever the F you want.

Your rights end at my property line. No one's forcing you to cross it. Obey the rules or find another place to shop.

That's the whole of the conversation.
 

Bailenforcer

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Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
imported post

scot623 wrote:
You may wish to access another's private property in order to gather information to publish online. However, while there are (rare) circumstances in which the law will condone your entry onto private property without permission, in general you do not have any right to enter the private property of others without their consent. You should read this section in conjunction with the section on Trespass in order to understand the issue of consent.

Types of Private Property

Residences: The term "private property" encompasses a wide variety of places, from homes to businesses open to the public. Courts are highly unsympathetic to those who try to gather news in private homes without consent, and if you enter a private home without permission, you may be liable for invasion of privacy, trespass and, in certain cases, intentional infliction of emotional distress.

In the 1940s, the Supreme Court took on the issue of "company towns" with regard to the First Amendment. Although the company town was private property owned by the company, the fact that it had been opened up to use by the public generally made it subject to the constitutional requirements of the First Amendment. Marsh v. Alabama, 326 U.S. 501 (1946).

Today, there are fewer company towns; however, private, gated residential communities may occupy a similar niche. Visitors seeking access to a private residential community must usually announce themselves at the gate or receive permission from the development's security guards in order to enter. It's often a wise idea to seek permission before entering such a community. But even if you do not express permission, your right to access will be strongest if the private residential community opens its gates to the public at large. See the section on Access to Public Property in this guide for more information.

Businesses: If you try to access businesses that do not open themselves up to the public, you may be liable for trespass. However, as a member of the public you will be able to access businesses open to the public without fear of liability. Your right of access does not necessarily translate into a right to gather information while you are there. The business has given you consent to use the premises as a patron, and your actions need to be within the scope of that use.

For example, a restaurant consents to your presence for you to enjoy eating a lovely meal in the company of good friends. In this scenario, taking notes about the food, ambiance, and service may be fine, whereas approaching other diners for interviews or for photographs likely oversteps the scope of the restaurant's consent, and you could be liable for trespass. See the Trespass section in this guide for more information. Note that you may only access the areas of the business that are open to the public. Continuing our example, while you can enter a restaurant, you cannot go to the kitchen without additional permission.

Shopping malls have come to occupy a place in modern communities akin to the town square or main street and thus are arguably public, rather than private, in nature. But unlike the traditional public forum of a town square, these establishments are privately owned places of business. Since the Supreme Court's decision in PruneYard Shopping Center v. Robins, 447 U.S. 74 (1980), stating that there is no constitutional right to free speech in a private shopping mall, the law of access to shopping malls has largely been left to the states. State courts vary on the question of whether to allow access to shopping malls. Those that do find them to be public or quasi-public forums still note that owners may impose reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on expression, provided the regulations are content-neutral, narrowly tailored, and leave open sufficient alternative channels of communication.

If you want to go to a shopping mall and gather information, try to avoid disrupting business activities. For example, it would be better to approach people walking in the corridors of the mall, or in the food court, than to station yourself at the door of a store and attempt to talk to everyone entering or exiting.

I don't care what you say, the Supreme courts descicions are the law of the land. Of course you can fight through the lower courts in the hopes your case will someday be heard by the Supreme Court and they will reverse their earlier decicion. Good luck. So as stated above, if the Supreme Court ruled the 1st amendment goes out the window in a mall, certainly the 2nd goes with it. I imagine that would apply to all businesses open to the public.
You made a great argument for socialism.


The Supreme Cout is NOT the LAW of the Land. Who taught you History and Civics?

The Constitution in it's "original intent" is the Supreme Law of the land.

Again you also use that Hegalian dialectic style of argument.

Disrupting a business? How is that compared to my rights to carry?
Holy Cow how did you go from one point and leap in logic so far to this point?

How is it preventing someone from doing business if I excercise my rights to carry?

No one has a right to disrupt someone elses business and yet you try and equate this?

Your argument is as dumb as someone saying our rights to post here is like tantanmount to yelling fire in a crowded theater.

One has NOTHING to do with the other PERIOD!

ince the Supreme Court's decision in PruneYard Shopping Center v. Robins, 447 U.S. 74 (1980), stating that there is no constitutional right to free speech in a private shopping mall, the law of access to shopping malls""


They did NOT say that, they never removed your right to FREE Speech, they removed the right to disrupt via speech. You and I talking as we shop is free speech and no one can stop us unless we became a threat or disruptive to others. Again that Hegalian dialectic comes to play.

I need to finally eat today will return after I eat...



here is that ruling and what you said diagrees with the case law.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=447&invol=74

They have the right to FREE Speech and not the right to accost the shopper demanding signatures. I remember this case well, the students were in fact so disruptive the shoppers complained.

Nice try try again. you made my point well.

off to eat..
 

jeremiahJohnson

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Joined
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Messages
375
Location
fenton, Michigan, USA
imported post


Snip
"I don't care what you say, the Supreme courts descicions are the law of the land
" Of course you can fight through the lower courts in the hopes your case will someday be heard by the Supreme Court and they will reverse their earlier decision. Good luck. So as stated above, if the Supreme Court ruled the 1st amendment goes out the window in a mall, certainly the 2nd goes with it. I imagine that would apply to all businesses open to the public.


You had me almost 100% till you said the above in bold. If the SC was law of the land the decision could never be overturned. My point is that the Constitution is the law of the land. The U.S. Supreme Court just rules on the Constitutionality of a law. I agree the fact that The USSC ruled that a private business can restrict another private citizens right to speech, therefore it can restrict the 2nd. It is the Government that cannot restrict.
 

Bailenforcer

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Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
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Location
City
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
That said,

I don't necessarily agree with you. I should have the right, as a business owner, to prevent certain kinds of speech that is normally protected by the first. I don't want someone promoting a competitor in my store, for instance.

As a private property owner, I have the choice of making the rules, and you have the choice of patronizing. You don't like my rules, then you don't enter my premises.


Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability - all of those are things that are supposedly not controllable (I say supposedly because people disagree on the sexual orientation one, even if I don't). You can control what you say, what you wear, what you bring with you.
The peach you speak of is a deliberate act of stealing your business, thus of course.

My owning or carry of a gun does NOT violate your rights. Your prevention of my excercise thereof does in fact violate mine.

Be careful you are making great points for the ANTI OC people, even if falacious.

What about my rights as a private property owner? The right to bear arms and the right to own property are the two base rights of freedom.

The right to dictate what actions are deemed acceptable on my property is not trumped by your right to do whatever the F you want.

Your rights end at my property line. No one's forcing you to cross it. Obey the rules or find another place to shop.

That's the whole of the conversation.
Wow is this so complicated?

if I disrupt your business acosting your customers then I violated your right to do business, but if you violate my right to carry on what grounds? NONE because I have NOT disrupted or stopped you from doing business unlike some Hara Chrisnia groups dancing around acting like fools, or some other fools using your place of business for NON business reasons. My gun stiops what in your business?


NOTHING!

Ok I am getting yelled at for not eating I am outa here.
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

Bailenforcer wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
That said,

I don't necessarily agree with you. I should have the right, as a business owner, to prevent certain kinds of speech that is normally protected by the first. I don't want someone promoting a competitor in my store, for instance.

As a private property owner, I have the choice of making the rules, and you have the choice of patronizing. You don't like my rules, then you don't enter my premises.


Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability - all of those are things that are supposedly not controllable (I say supposedly because people disagree on the sexual orientation one, even if I don't). You can control what you say, what you wear, what you bring with you.
The peach you speak of is a deliberate act of stealing your business, thus of course.

My owning or carry of a gun does NOT violate your rights. Your prevention of my excercise thereof does in fact violate mine.

Be careful you are making great points for the ANTI OC people, even if falacious.

What about my rights as a private property owner? The right to bear arms and the right to own property are the two base rights of freedom.

The right to dictate what actions are deemed acceptable on my property is not trumped by your right to do whatever the F you want.

Your rights end at my property line. No one's forcing you to cross it. Obey the rules or find another place to shop.

That's the whole of the conversation.
Wow is this so complicated?

if I disrupt your business acosting your customers then I violated your right to do business, but if you violate my right to carry on what grounds? NONE because I  have NOT disrupted or stopped you from doing business unlike some Hara Chrisnia groups dancing around acting like fools, or some other fools using your place of business for NON business reasons. My gun stiops what in your business?


NOTHING!

Ok I am getting yelled at for not eating I am outa here.

It has nothing to do with your right to carry.

It has everything to do with my right to choose what happens and what doesn't happen on my property.
 

Kusala

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Oakland County, Michigan, USA
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You can do things your own way........... As long as there done just how I say!!! People have lost sense. I do not like all my customers. I do not need to like what they do legally or how they dress. I like that they pay and shop at my store.

There is more liability in someone wearing high heel shoes on a wet floor than any gun toter by a long shot.
 
B

Bikenut

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imported post

While the conflict of opinions rages on concerning private property rights and 2nd Amendment rights please allow me to offer an opinion about both...

The anti gun faction has finally found the perfect vehicle to further it's agenda... all they have to do is:

Get a war started over who's rights are more important that who's....

While scaring as many private property owners as possible into banning guns on their property .. effectively canceling out the right to carry in as many places as possible.

This is yet another example of anti gun/anti freedom leftists using Saul Alinsky misdirection to further the real agenda behind the uproar.

Make no mistake... the leftist anti gun folks are wily little snakes.
 

Bailenforcer

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Kusala wrote:
You can do things your own way........... As long as there done just how I say!!! People have lost sense. I do not like all my customers. I do not need to like what they do legally or how they dress. I like that they pay and shop at my store.

There is more liability in someone wearing high heel shoes on a wet floor than any gun toter by a long shot.
Slip and Falls Accidents are the Second Most Common Types of Accidents These types of accidentsaccount for nearly 16,000 deaths every year in the United States. Additionally, while not every slip and fall accident results in a death, there are a substantially larger number of serious injuries that result from these falling accidents.


Now how many gun accidents? Only 1400 a year and none listed in public venues, with a couple exceptions years ago and those were by Police officers.

Yes the left wing insurance companies wish to suppress your rights and try to do such.
 

Bailenforcer

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Joined
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Bikenut wrote:
While the conflict of opinions rages on concerning private property rights and 2nd Amendment rights please allow me to offer an opinion about both...

The anti gun faction has finally found the perfect vehicle to further it's agenda... all they have to do is:

Get a war started over who's rights are more important that who's....

While scaring as many private property owners as possible into banning guns on their property .. effectively canceling out the right to carry in as many places as possible.

This is yet another example of anti gun/anti freedom leftists using Saul Alinsky misdirection to further the real agenda behind the uproar.

Make no mistake... the leftist anti gun folks are wily little snakes.
Exactly, what riles me the most is when self professed OC people argue we have no right to OC, it flies in the face of logic.

It is self destructive. And I wonder why...
 

Bailenforcer

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Joined
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City
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
Bailenforcer wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
That said,

I don't necessarily agree with you. I should have the right, as a business owner, to prevent certain kinds of speech that is normally protected by the first. I don't want someone promoting a competitor in my store, for instance.

As a private property owner, I have the choice of making the rules, and you have the choice of patronizing. You don't like my rules, then you don't enter my premises.


Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability - all of those are things that are supposedly not controllable (I say supposedly because people disagree on the sexual orientation one, even if I don't). You can control what you say, what you wear, what you bring with you.
The peach you speak of is a deliberate act of stealing your business, thus of course.

My owning or carry of a gun does NOT violate your rights. Your prevention of my excercise thereof does in fact violate mine.

Be careful you are making great points for the ANTI OC people, even if falacious.

What about my rights as a private property owner? The right to bear arms and the right to own property are the two base rights of freedom.

The right to dictate what actions are deemed acceptable on my property is not trumped by your right to do whatever the F you want.

Your rights end at my property line. No one's forcing you to cross it. Obey the rules or find another place to shop.

That's the whole of the conversation.
Wow is this so complicated?

if I disrupt your business acosting your customers then I violated your right to do business, but if you violate my right to carry on what grounds? NONE because I have NOT disrupted or stopped you from doing business unlike some Hara Chrisnia groups dancing around acting like fools, or some other fools using your place of business for NON business reasons. My gun stiops what in your business?


NOTHING!

Ok I am getting yelled at for not eating I am outa here.

It has nothing to do with your right to carry.

It has everything to do with my right to choose what happens and what doesn't happen on my property.
You have the right to keep your store closed to prevent people from excercising their GOD given Constitutional rights on your property.

Once you invite the PUBLIC in you invite them with all rights INTACT! You can NOT discriminate who gets rights and who does not.

Wow once again I am confused at the duplicity here.

Not one person who wants to oppress the rights of OC here has answered the basic question, they all dodge it completely. This tells volumes about their own faith in their position.

Once again.

Where does my rights or exercise thereof abbrogate your rights as a shop keeper or business owner?

You can't show me this, thus you avoid the question repeatedly.

Yet you demand the right to remove my rights based on what? NOTHING!

This is like arguing with Hombre1..

He concluded my right to carry impeads on someones right to comfort. yet like you can't prove such.

Rights can not be stripped away PERIOD! Your property rights extend to your PRIVATE PROPERTY not a PUBLIC place you happen to own.

If you are right then we soon will be OC only at home. No one touched my TurnPike question I see.

Most Turnpikes are Now private Property as the were sold by your states to Private businesses so your argument claims they can restrict not only OC but Legal CC on any turnpike which was sold to a private company.

Bad bad argument here guys, really bad. You have just surrendered your right to carry unbeknowst to you.

We better wake up or soon we will be able to carry at home only. many cities are offering to sell off all kinds of infrastructure to private companies. States included. We better get a clue fast.

I am a lanlord maybe I can restrict my renters gun rights? After all it is MY private Property and my business..... Right?:banghead::banghead:
 
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