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Thread: Kicked out of Smiths on Charleston and Hualapai

  1. #1
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    This did not happen to me but to another OCDC member who i am sure will post when he is at a computer next.

    Here is what i know and what i was told when i contacted Smith's.

    He was shopping with his GF and mother who is in a wheel chair, approached by an employee who asked if he had a permit and explained OC. Employee left content with the answer. Minutes later he is approached by numerous managers, asked to leave, and escorted out.

    I went ahead and called the store and asked for the store manager and was connected to Kimberly. When i said a friend had been kicked out of the store and i wanted to know there exact polices she laughed and said i should just talk to her District Manager Rod. After being connected to Rod he explained that concealed carry was fine in there stores but OC was not and that it violated there "no weapons" policy. I explained that i had OC in that exact store many times and never had anyone say anything to me, he went on about the weapons policy again and then said a customer had complained but could not state what the complaint was. "I had this same policy when i ran the Pahrump store, its like the wild west out there with everyone carrying guns and we will be getting signs".

    After he said HE had that policy in Pahrump i asked if it was his policy or a Smith's policy. "Well its going to be.... it is a smiths policy". I asked how it was that they allowed one legal method of legally carrying a firearm but not another to which he replied "if you don't want to shop here because of our policy then don't".

    Multiple attempts to reach Smith's national customer service at 888-876-4847 ended with the call being disconnected before being connected to an agent. All calls to the corporate headquarters # found via google 801-974-1400 were greeted with voicemail.

    For what it is worth (not much) my personal opinion is it sounded like Rod is a new district manager and he is trying to start a no OC policy. I will be following up with Smith's national tomorrow.

    ***All quotes are not exact and how i remember them.

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    Yeah I was asked to leave the Tropicana and Jones one a few weeks ago. The manager stated that it was against company policy and that I was scaring the other customers. I started shopping at the Jones and flamingo one and haven't had a problem yet. I emailed corporate, but they have yet to reply.

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    This post was about me.

    I was treated like a criminal for no reason.


    I won't be back to another Smiths.


    Thanks to Adam for helping out, I had no luck on the phone with them.


    Of course when confronted with $800 cash, and asked if they accept that, they said of course they do! I told chuckled at them.


    Not wanting guns in their stores is one thing, but treating me like I am a criminal, and embarrassing my girlfriend, my mother and myself is going too far.


    Once again, thank you Adam for calling Smiths, and calling me after it happens.

    I posted that I got kicked out on the Nevada Shooters chat and within 30 seconds infinitearms called me asking if I was ok.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    I have been shopping at Smith's in Henderson, Boulder at Greenway, for a long time and have never had a problem. I also shop in the Food For Less, Boulder at College and no problem. For those that don't know, they are the same company, Kroger. The only grocery store I have ever been confronted in was a Vons, and the store manager doesn't seem to have a problem with it now. In fact, she checked my order out yesterday. If this is indeed a new policy, we need to let them know that their competition does not seem to have a problem, and wants our patronage. The grocery business is a dog eat dog business.
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    My dad was bringing up protesting businesses because of OC. Maybe sometime we should stand outside a Smiths and hand out flyers and protest! What do you guy's think?

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    I have something else in the works that will probably be more effective.


    I will post more details as they are ironed out.

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    Well I'm always willing to help a good idea. I do the OC calendar so if you need it to be posted let me know.

    GoDSpeeD

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    There was a judge on tv yesterday saying that a public venue, like a grocery store or any other establishment that invites the public in, cannot kick you out for OC due to the 2nd Am. I know we do not yet have case law that says so, but that is his take on it.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    I would think that private property rights would trump your personalright to carry. However, that being said, most establishments such as Smiths are stock corporations, and not "private" in terms of an individual. That is a real interesting subject.
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    The Big Guy wrote:
    I would think that private property rights would trump your personalright to carry. However, that being said, most establishments such as Smiths are stock corporations, and not "private" in terms of an individual. That is a real interesting subject.
    On private property kept private, yes.

    On private property used as a public venue, which invites the public in, then NO.

    When you enter a Smith's, you do not need to suspend your religious beliefs, or take the Ron Paul bumper sticker off your car, as that activity is protected by the Bill of Rights. Same with carrying a gun.

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    "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

    You can stand on the sidewalk and preach your religious beliefs, but if you do it in their store, they'll probably kick you out.

    You can stand on the sidewalk wearing a profane T-Shirt, but they could tell you to not enter their store when wearing it.

    I disagree that private property owners should be FORCED to allow any activity, including allowing firearms. And even though I know policies which prohibit weapons only stop law-abiding citizens, I would not support any government attempts to require them to change their policy.

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    timf343 wrote:
    "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

    You can stand on the sidewalk and preach your religious beliefs, but if you do it in their store, they'll probably kick you out.

    You can stand on the sidewalk wearing a profane T-Shirt, but they could tell you to not enter their store when wearing it.

    I disagree that private property owners should be FORCED to allow any activity, including allowing firearms. And even though I know policies which prohibit weapons only stop law-abiding citizens, I would not support any government attempts to require them to change their policy.
    There seems to be a lot of confusion here about constitutional rights.

    If a business venue invites you in (grocery store), then you can go in for legitimate business purposes AND you cannot be forced to surrender your constitutional rights in the process. So you can go into Smith's wearing an Obama t-shirt and they cannot kick you out for your political views.

    Of course you cannot engage in activities which are not related to entering the venue for legitimate business purposes. For example, you cannot go into Smith's to sing Hare Krishna songs instead of buying groceries.

    When a private property owner opens up his property to the public, then he must accept the public WITH their constitutional rights. Of course the private property owner may choose to keep the public out, and then he does not need to worry about constitutional rights. In other words, it is not an issue of the government forcing a grocery store to change its policy. It is an issue of whether the grocery store wishes to allow the public to enter, with their constitutional rights, or to remain closed to the public. Those are the grocery store owner's two choices.



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    In the grocery store, I can talk to my wife. But if I talk to her at the movie theater, they'll probably ask me to stop talking or leave. My 1st amendment right does not protect me here even if, related to the business I'm conducting with the theater, I am commenting on my opinion of the film.

    Eating food is just fine in a restaurant. In an art gallery, I'll likely be asked to get rid of the food or leave. It may not be in the Bill of Rights, but I do have a right to consume food, but perhaps not while I'm conducting business with the gallery and viewing the paintings.

    One could wear a swastika in public, but the Jewish synagogue would probably deny them entry. Two of my first amendment rights fail to protect me in this scenario either.

    At a concert or sporting event, they may have metal detectors. My 4th amendment right doesn't protect me here either. I will either submit to being searched, or they won't let me in.

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    timf343 wrote:
    In the grocery store, I can talk to my wife. But if I talk to her at the movie theater, they'll probably ask me to stop talking or leave.
    That is because you are interfering with the business purpose of the theatre, and interfering with the service that the other guests paid for.

    I will let it go at that. If you want a reading list, let me know.

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    Brigham Young wrote:
    There was a judge on tv yesterday saying that a public venue, like a grocery store or any other establishment that invites the public in, cannot kick you out for OC due to the 2nd Am. I know we do not yet have case law that says so, but that is his take on it.
    I saw that as well. Judge napalitano on Fox speaking about Starbucks. I thought pvt prop trumps as well but now not so sure.

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    Funny Fox seems to have replaced that video with a new one without the Judge. A google search is not returning it either. Many forums are talking about it though. In this article the NRA side steps the issue about 3/4 of the way down.



    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...toWhatsNewsTop

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    This is a very interesting question. I too believe that my right to swing my arm ends where your nose begins. However, what makes this an interesting topic is that is Smith's really private? They are a stock company, Publicly held. They are open to the general public. There could be a case made that in this situation theyare not like a small privately ownedmom and pop store. The trespass laws as I understand them state that if someone in authority asks you to leave, you must. They don't really have to give a reason. If you don't do so timely, you are guilty of trespass. The bottom line is that there are legitimate arguments on both sides of this issue and who is going to put up the cash to get a court ruling on this? I hold that the best way to approach this is using competition. Vote with your patronage.
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Whoops. Double tap.

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    Rod's full of crap.

    I carry an average of once a week in Pahrump Smith's. Everybody sees me, and knows me, at least by sight. (I'm a big guy in a power wheelchair, hard to miss) They ALL know and see my firearm every time. No one says a word apart from asking what kind, etc. (You occasionally do still see the tourist or Kali transplant get that :shock: look in thier eyes... but they end to just get used to it, I think.. and some start asking good questions.) The produce Manager even made a nice gun comment as he helped me grab something off a higher shelf about two weeks ago.

    I, and others here I know, have been carrying in this Smith's (and I did so in Vegas, too, for a LONG time) for well over a year since I have been back here.. and for lots longer than that when I was gone.

    HIS "policy", not Smith's. Maybe us out here in the WILD west with "everybody" carrying was the reason he ain't here anymore? Getting some Signs huh? I think maybe he isn't seeing the signs...lol.. I'll show him the one he misses.. I-15 South. GO home.

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    Brigham Young wrote:
    That is because you are interfering with the business purpose of the theatre, and interfering with the service that the other guests paid for.

    I will let it go at that. If you want a reading list, let me know.
    Are you kidding? So the constitution applies to businesses and private property owners, who cannot make up rules on THEIR property? News flash, businesses are owned by citizens too. Since when do my rights supersede theirs?

    But you're at least saying there's an exception - if I "interfere" with others the Bill of Rights doesn't apply. Where are these exceptions codified and/or what case law backs up your claim?

    I guess you're also going to "let it go at that" so you don't have to respond to my other three points. The same exception (interfering with the business purpose) does not apply to any of them. How exactly does my eating in an art gallery affect anyone else? Or exactly who business am I interfering with by refusing to be searched at a concert?

    And yes, a reading list would be great.

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    The Big Guy wrote:
    I hold that the best way to approach this is using competition. Vote with your patronage.
    Agreed. Market forces will come into play. Don't like their policies? Go somewhere else! I like to eat at Buffalo Wild Wings but have refused to go back since we were kicked out of their North Las Vegas store last year. Hooter's works just fine for me :-)

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    Regardless of BBW's policies, Hooters always works for me...
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    so speaking of this. when i was kicked out of BWW. in reality, the manager had no right because they invited us in and kicked us out as we were leaving :?

    so according to this video. if they invited us in, they couldnt strip our rights and we could have stayed....

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