Antis will be protesting at Starbucks in Alexandria

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Mike wrote:

I think its best leave this anti-gun rally to itself - Starbucks has asked everybody to leave them alone so please do so - I think going to such anti rallies at thispoint just hurts starbucks and helps the antis who look really dumb at this point

Probably a good idea to avoid gigantic meetups at starbucks too - a much more effective way to normalize gun carry is to just open carry discreetly and go about your business when you visit Starbucks, like Jim "Hot Chocholate man" Snyder, see NBC 4 video at http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-beat/Guns_and_Starbucks_Washington_DC.html

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The last guy on that video is awesome...."If he has a weapon he probably has a right to have it."

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bohdi wrote:

Mike wrote:

I think its best leave this anti-gun rally to itself - Starbucks has asked everybody to leave them alone so please do so - I think going to such anti rallies at thispoint just hurts starbucks and helps the antis who look really dumb at this point

Probably a good idea to avoid gigantic meetups at starbucks too - a much more effective way to normalize gun carry is to just open carry discreetly and go about your business when you visit Starbucks, like Jim "Hot Chocholate man" Snyder, see NBC 4 video at http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-beat/Guns_and_Starbucks_Washington_DC.html

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The last guy on that video is awesome...."If he has a weapon he probably has a right to have it."

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Yup- see how open carry by folks like Jim bring out positive comments in people?

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I'd be willing to bet that the many of the protesters will have Starbucks beverages in their hands or close by. I might be fun to create a video showing the hypocrisies of protesting Starbucks while still using their product. I wish I had the time this weekend to do it and was more skilled at video story telling.

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I told my wife about it and the first thing she said is can we go. She is also going to talk to her boss about it. She is the office manager with a PR firm in old town. Be interesting to see if he wants to do anything.

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I live there and will go for my morning coffee.

I never see anyone OC in Old Town.

I am not certain as to the ability to OC in Alexandria. It looks to me that the law states that you can not carry a loaded cenerfire rifle, pistol in Alexandria and several other communities. Dont know if this meansyou can carry an unloaded centerfire, or even a rimfire 22 MAG, as they technically are not infringing upon your right to keep and bear arms.

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I may take a ride out there. I'll cc to respect starbucks neutral stance.

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Bigbird wrote:

I am not certain as to the ability to OC in Alexandria. It looks to me that the law states that you can not carry a loaded cenerfire rifle, pistol in Alexandria and several other communities. Dont know if this meansyou can carry an unloaded centerfire, or even a rimfire 22 MAG, as they technically are not infringing upon your right to keep and bear arms.

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To what law do you refer that prohibits carrying a loaded firearm in Alexandria?

If you refer to § 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty, then that law usually isn't a problem. How many handguns are produced such that the only magazine available holds more than 20 rounds of ammo?

Yes, there are a few handguns excluded by the folding stock and/or " manufacturer to accommodate a silencer" clauses in the law but there are still numerous other handguns you could carry

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I'm heading that direction about that time anyways, forcibly disarmed during my trip
I'll see if I can stop by, enjoy some nice tea in full view of the 1st Amendment Abusers

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Bigbird wrote:

I live there and will go for my morning coffee.

I never see anyone OC in Old Town.

I am not certain as to the ability to OC in Alexandria. It looks to me that the law states that you can not carry a loaded cenerfire rifle, pistol in Alexandria and several other communities. Dont know if this meansyou can carry an unloaded centerfire, or even a rimfire 22 MAG, as they technically are not infringing upon your right to keep and bear arms.

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Only been able to do it a few times with the weather being so bad jackets were kind of required. Should be nice weather this weekend.

I can respect the CCW to not drag Starbucks into the fray but the sad fact is they are in it already. I only see two sides to this. Either allow or ban and throwing some money to a venti latte may help. Also behaving correctly while in public so the "you must be a gun crazy nut" image is gotten rid of.

Old Town may be a fairly liberal area but one thing that I know a lot of business owners are aware of is that you have tons of military/ex military coming there since it is closer and IMO opinion nicer then DC to visit. The amount of money spent is a factor. I bet a lot remain neutral/silent on one side or the other since anything saying you are against rights that are being fought for could look bad.

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Bigbird wrote:

I live there and will go for my morning coffee.

I never see anyone OC in Old Town.

I am not certain as to the ability to OC in Alexandria. It looks to me that the law states that you can not carry a loaded cenerfire rifle, pistol in Alexandria and several other communities. Dont know if this meansyou can carry an unloaded centerfire, or even a rimfire 22 MAG, as they technically are not infringing upon your right to keep and bear arms.

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This does not apply if your pistol does not have a thread barrel and is notequipped with a magazine that holds more than 20 rounds, or it does not apply at all if you have a CHP.

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That is the code I was referring to. Just like most of our laws very vague not really cut and dry.

Having lived there for almost a year it seems like the demographic for Old Town residents is about 50/50 Conservitive/Liberal.

The liberals are the only ones that stand out as is the case with most, bumper stickers on there cars etc. I have no problem with it, but it seems that most liberals are very vocal on the 1st Amendment Rights and just plain being behinds with the poster boards and the magic markers. I don't begrudge them their right to do so, but they are kind of funny to watch.

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rlh2005 wrote:

Bigbird wrote:

I am not certain as to the ability to OC in Alexandria. It looks to me that the law states that you can not carry a loaded cenerfire rifle, pistol in Alexandria and several other communities. Dont know if this meansyou can carry an unloaded centerfire, or even a rimfire 22 MAG, as they technically are not infringing upon your right to keep and bear arms.

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To what law do you refer that prohibits carrying a loaded firearm in Alexandria?

If you refer to § 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty, then that law usually isn't a problem. How many handguns are produced such that the only magazine available holds more than 20 rounds of ammo?

Yes, there are a few handguns excluded by the folding stock and/or " manufacturer to accommodate a silencer" clauses in the law but there are still numerous other handguns you could carry

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OC is certainly legal in Va., including Alexandria and all other municipalities. State preemption prevails. You will notice that open carry (OC) is NOT referenced in the statute - by the lack of making this illegal, it is legal.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-915

This restriction (and other) on certain magazine capacities in certain localities is not applicable if one possesses a CHP.

A CHP does not require that one conceal - therefore OC is legal even with these restrictions with a CHP.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4

Yata hey

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hunter45 wrote:

VApatriot wrote:

There is also a good chancethat the local media will be there. Ifwe CC (those of us who can), there is more of a chance of being interviewed as a"neutral" party to the protest. This could provide an additionalopportunity to make the antis look like the only ones disturbing anyone, and present OC and CC as not being a problem for "average" citizens.

Example:

NewsReporter: What do you think of this protest and carrying guns in Starbucks?

CCing OCDO Member and "average" Starbucks customer: I think this protest is down right silly. I think that law-abiding citizens who carry firearms make everyone safer, whether they are in aStarbucks or anywhere else.

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I agree with the others, this is definitely the best way to go.

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Excellent plan, LW and H45.

Here's howthe rest of the interviewcould play out:



Example (Continued):

NewsReporter: That's interesting. So, you think everyone is safer with goons...I mean "law abiding citizens," walking around with EXPOSED guns?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Well, sure. There are people out there with felonious intent. And those bad guysdon't follow the gun laws. I can definitgely see why we, uh, those guys carry the guns openly.


NewsReporter: Wow. You're the first person I've asked today who feels that way.

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Oh, really? Well, I can assure you that I'm a level-headed, law abiding, sheepdo..., er, aregular ole citizen.


NewsReporter: Sheepdog? Did you say "sheepdog?" What's that?


CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer:No, no. I said , uhm, sweetheart. You know. A term of endearment. Like...I really appreciate your going to the trouble to get the, uh....pulse of the people...sweetheart. Yeah, that's the ticket.

NewsReporter: Dude, I am straight,....I, uh...don't play dat way, y'know? But I wanted to ask you, since you think those awful guys walking around with the big guns make everyone "safer," wouldn't that require some training in the use of guns? Maybe some extensive courses like the training tha police go through?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Oh, absolutely not. It's a known fact that police officers can't shoot worth a damn! Regular law-abiding carriers almost always shoot IDPAorpins on weekends and know how to shoot much better than...

NewsReporter: What's that, IDPA....and pins? Are those people?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Uh, never mind that. Ask me another question.


NewsReporter: OK. Do you, as an "average" Starbucks customer think that the 2nd Amendment thingie actually allows Joe Sixpack to walk around with a big old honkin' semi-automatic gun--with, like,3 or 4 extra clips? Like he's going to war or something?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Well first of all, those are not "clips." They are "magazines." And a person should always have enough....


NewsReporter: How do you know that? Is that were the bullets are?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Yes, uh, I read it somewhere...Popular Science, mebbe...



NewsReporter: Oh good. So you know about guns. Wonderful. Have you ever held a gun?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Uh, well, do you mean like a firear...



NewsReporter: Oh, do you actually own a gun? What kind?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: A FiveSeveN...



NewsReporter: 5, 7? What's that?


CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Uhm, ... I meant it's late, it's five to seven . ... gotta get to work...look, it's been nice talkin...


NewsReporter: OK. I understand. As an "average Starbucks customer," you gotta make the cash to feed your coffee habit, eh?


CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Yeh, something like that.


NewsReporter: Wait, just one final question. Since you're an "average Starbucks customer,"who .... seems to know a lot about guns....is it true that a person doesn't evenneed a license to openly carry a gun?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Of course. The Constitution says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed! (Fist pump here.)



NewsReporter: So training in handling a gun is an infringement? Interesting. What about teenagers carrying guns? I heard that it is legal for an 18-year-old, without a license or training, can walk in here carrying a gun. Is that true?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Of course. Many, heroic18-year-olds have died in the service of the military.....that alone gives them the right to....hey, I really have to go....


NewsReporter: OK. Thank you very much for your time and especially for your expertise. You know a lot of gun stuff, for an "average" Starbucks customer. I'm so glad I saw you here. I was afraid that I would run into one of those gun nuts. They're kind of devious people, you know? Why, we heard that some might come here to spy on this demonstration and cause trouble. Some were even going to come and pretend to be normal customers--they were even going to hide their precious guns so we couldn't tell who they were! They believe they have the right to come spy....Canyou believe that?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: A right unexcercised is a right ..... hey, good bye.

NewsReporter: OK. Thanks again.

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I keep reading about Starbucks asking OC supporters to not put them in the middle of this....however, when did we ever put them in the middle of this? As far as I have seen, the Brady Bunch has put them in the middle of this, not us.

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Man Hank. You ought to try writing for Hollywood Or at least a local production company.

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HankT wrote:

hunter45 wrote:

VApatriot wrote:

There is also a good chancethat the local media will be there. Ifwe CC (those of us who can), there is more of a chance of being interviewed as a"neutral" party to the protest. This could provide an additionalopportunity to make the antis look like the only ones disturbing anyone, and present OC and CC as not being a problem for "average" citizens.

Example:

NewsReporter: What do you think of this protest and carrying guns in Starbucks?

CCing OCDO Member and "average" Starbucks customer: I think this protest is down right silly. I think that law-abiding citizens who carry firearms make everyone safer, whether they are in aStarbucks or anywhere else.

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I agree with the others, this is definitely the best way to go.

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Excellent plan, LW and H45.

Here's howthe rest of the interviewcould play out:



Example (Continued): . . .

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It's best to keep to the point. Here's what, out of the HankT interview, would be on TV after a little time in the editing room:

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer:Regular law-abiding carriers almost always shoot IDPAorpins on weekends.

NewsReporter: What's that, IDPA....and pins? Are those people?

CCing OCDO Member posing as "average" Starbucks customer: Yeh, something like that. (shows video of fist pump here)

If you ever talk to the media, be brief and to the point. Don't give them anythingthat could be taken out of context, because they will use it against you in the court of public opinion.

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Lol VA, that's a very important point.

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fully_armed_biker wrote:

I keep reading about Starbucks asking OC supporters to not put them in the middle of this....however, when did we ever put them in the middle of this? As far as I have seen, the Brady Bunch has put them in the middle of this, not us.

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OCers never did.

Heck I've been OCing in various Starbucks for about 2 years now, well before the thing in CA started up with all the media attention. I've never had an issue, and I hope I never do in the future either. I think the point of this thread was saying, don't go there just to counter the anti's.

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Here is a pictorial example of my above post. This picture was used by several national media outlets in their coverage of OC at Starbucks. If theyonly getjust one bad angle of a gun-owner, that is almost alwayswhat they will highlight.

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Reading on the website for Easy Guns, it says that will be concerned mothers who are protesting at Starbucks.

It will be interesting to see/hear how they play the heart strings of folks based on the endangerment of their children by fine upstanding citizens.

These folks are so misguided.....almost brainwashed. How can one equate gang/drug/and what ever other kind of illegal acts perped with a firearm to honest people with no criminal intent exercising a right.

You would think that their energy would be better spent on getting drunk drivers out from behind the wheel. Much nobeler cause, but there will be no protest of any bar or public house.

Go figure.