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Thread: Ken Schram on CeaseFire's Starbucks attempts

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    http://www.komonews.com/opinion/kenschram/86370572.html

    They want private business to do what the government won't.

    Gun control advocates are pushing Starbucks and a few other retailers to keep weapons out of their stores by setting up "gun free zones."

    This little legal dust-up got its legs down in California.

    That's where folks focused in on that state's open carry law, which allows them to strap on their pistols in view of everyone to see.

    In all, 29 states, including Washington, have such open carry laws.

    Gun control folks turned out here in Seattle yesterday, petitioning corporate Starbucks to ban guns in its coffee houses everywhere.

    To be honest, I've never seen anyone ordering up a mocha frappachino while packin' a pistol.

    Being candid, it wouldn't bother me if I had.

    To Starbucks' credit, its response has been that it will go with state laws and not the mood of alarmists.

    What's puzzling is that I think there are bigger bullets for gun control advocates to bite on.

    Working to keep illegal guns off the streets and out of the hands of criminals and joining with gun rights groups to promote better gun safety to name but two.

    But making an end run around the law to get private business to do what the government won't?

    Sure doesn't make my day.



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    I sent an email to Ken in response, saying:

    Mr. Schram,

    Let me preface with saying that you and I normally have differences in our views, although I do appreciate seeing things from the 'other guy's perspective.' I am college-educated, a white-collar worker, former boy scout and search and rescue volunteer, and a father of three. I live in the city and would not be anywhere close tobeing what some people would label a 'redneck.'

    I've been an on-and-off open carrier for a few yearsnow, and like to think I'm fairly prudent with respect to when Ichoose to carry openly versus concealed (which I am licensed to do). While I do not speak for the 'group' I will say that publicity is what the open carry group has lacked. Until now. In the last two or three weeks,Washington CeaseFire has donemore publicityfor us than we could have ever hoped for.After reading these articles and hearing the stories about CeaseFire's efforts to pushfor aban on 'openly carried guns' in the Starbucks locations, people have been very quick to connect the fact that if they are trying to banthe practice, it must begenerally legal. A few keystrokes at Googleand they findthe opencarry.org forum, and thenthe Washington-specific forum (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55), and realize the ability of a normal person to openly carry a handgun in our state.I have personally seen an upswing in the amount of people posting to the forum saying that they are "new to the forum" in these past few weeks.This publicity is more than our small group has had in a long while, and we have CeaseFire to thank for that.

    Thank you for your recent editorial on the Starbucks/Open Carry issue. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I have personally taught firearms safety courses and supervised a local indoor pistol range, and would love to get back into teaching safe gun handling. Guns are not going away, to pretend that they can just become a thing of the past is foolish. Learning to live with (or at least,around) them is a much more responsible approach to the issue.

    If I can be of any assistance with this issue, please do not hesitate to ask.

    Sincerely,

    Jeff ---------
    "G20-IWB24/7" on opencarry.org


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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    I sent an email to Ken in response, saying:

    Mr. Schram,

    Let me preface with saying that you and I normally have differences in our views, although I do appreciate seeing things from the 'other guy's perspective.' I am college-educated, a white-collar worker, former boy scout and search and rescue volunteer, and a father of three. I live in the city and would not be anywhere close tobeing what some people would label a 'redneck.'

    I've been an on-and-off open carrier for a few yearsnow, and like to think I'm fairly prudent with respect to when Ichoose to carry openly versus concealed (which I am licensed to do). While I do not speak for the 'group' I will say that publicity is what the open carry group has lacked. Until now. In the last two or three weeks,Washington CeaseFire has donemore publicityfor us than we could have ever hoped for.After reading these articles and hearing the stories about CeaseFire's efforts to pushfor aban on 'openly carried guns' in the Starbucks locations, people have been very quick to connect the fact that if they are trying to banthe practice, it must begenerally legal. A few keystrokes at Googleand they findthe opencarry.org forum, and thenthe Washington-specific forum (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55), and realize the ability of a normal person to openly carry a handgun in our state.I have personally seen an upswing in the amount of people posting to the forum saying that they are "new to the forum" in these past few weeks.This publicity is more than our small group has had in a long while, and we have CeaseFire to thank for that.

    Thank you for your recent editorial on the Starbucks/Open Carry issue. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I have personally taught firearms safety courses and supervised a local indoor pistol range, and would love to get back into teaching safe gun handling. Guns are not going away, to pretend that they can just become a thing of the past is foolish. Learning to live with (or at least,around) them is a much more responsible approach to the issue.

    If I can be of any assistance with this issue, please do not hesitate to ask.

    Sincerely,

    Jeff ---------
    "G20-IWB24/7" on opencarry.org

    Nice job!

    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member ghosthunter's Avatar
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    Ken

    Thank you for some common sense. I am a member of open carry and I conceal carry. If I conceal carry some where or open carry what is the difference? The gun is still there. It is time as a nation that we move away from this debate. More gun laws will do nothing. There are 20,000 guns laws nation wide and not one of them stopped any shootings. These people who are intent on killing other humans are not hindered by laws which the courts will not and cannot enforce.
    Every minute we spend looking at gun laws takes away from any progress towards a solution to stop people from killing each other. Look at every shooting case , how many laws did the killers violate?



    The real problem is that six people can know before or after the fact that a guy has or intends to shoot police officers and not one calls to report it. The real problem is that a young women can be repeatedly kicked in the head in front of security guards and a dozen other people and no one steps up to help.
    The real problem is a man who can butcher 45 women be convicted of it and go on living at the taxpayers expense. No gun laws will solve these problems, but the legal carry of firearms both in the open and concealed just might help. Why not we have tried everything else.



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    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    Hey, that's me! (in the green shirt)

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    Today's News Tribune had a piece about OC as well.

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    Today's News Tribune...
    Got a link? I can't seem to find anything on the site.

    [ later: ]

    Never mind, I found it.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    kparker wrote:
    Today's News Tribune...
    Got a link? I can't seem to find anything on the site.
    congrats Post 1000!!!!!

    <----------------------------
    Live Free or Die!

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    Bobarino is really taking out the libs in the commentary! Way to be a calm voice (keyboard) for the OC/2A movement. We're gaining speed and the Brady's can't take it. Let's remember to be good sports, guys and gals, and not throw it in anyone's faces. Just walk a little taller and pat yourselves on the back. Great job!
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    thanks there's a lot misinformation out there regarding gun rights. i just try to set the record straight. i couldn't believe the guy that said just let the police disarm you and don't complain about it. :shock: speak for yourself buddy!

    Bobby

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    my comment.....

    First you got use to cussing on TV, then it was ok. Then you got use to sex on TV, again it was alright. Now we got guns out in the open, one day you'll say "It's alright." Get use to it, we are out there and are not going away. I don't carry my gun to make up for any shortages in my anatomy. I carry because the Supreme Court has said that the police are not there to protect you as an individual but to protect society as a whole(see Warren v. District of Columbia). I carry because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.


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    Well done G20 .We have made some serious progress of late and to have Sch ram see things the way we do is big.I think cease fire and the Brady bunch figuratively shot themselves in the foot with that stunt the other day. I made them seem even more irrelevant.

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    DEROS72 wrote:
    We have made some serious progress of late and to have Sch ram see things the way we do is big.
    Considering how anti-gun his rants were back when those ravers (house partiers?)got shot in Seattle, I agree.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

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    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Not to quibble too much but this is one of my pet peeves.

    You can't have an "amount of people". The word amount is reserved for things that can't be counted. An amount of publicity, a number of people carrying guns.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. Language Monitor



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    heresolong wrote:
    Not to quibble too much but this is one of my pet peeves.

    You can't have an "amount of people". The word amount is reserved for things that can't be counted. An amount of publicity, a number of people carrying guns.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. Language Monitor

    It's like ''how much vs. how many''. If you measure it, it's ''how much''; if you count them it's ''how many''.

    Little Sir Echo (sort of)

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    heresolong wrote:
    Not to quibble too much but this is one of my pet peeves.

    You can't have an "amount of people". The word amount is reserved for things that can't be counted. An amount of publicity, a number of people carrying guns.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. Language Monitor

    Sorry, did I mention that my college-education focused on psychology, not language arts?

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    Machoduck wrote:
    heresolong wrote:
    Not to quibble too much but this is one of my pet peeves.

    You can't have an "amount of people". The word amount is reserved for things that can't be counted. An amount of publicity, a number of people carrying guns.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. Language Monitor

    It's like ''how much vs. how many''. If you measure it, it's ''how much''; if you count them it's ''how many''.

    Little Sir Echo (sort of)
    You guys make me proud!


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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    "Sorry, did I mention that my college-education focused on psychology, not language arts? "

    Aren't they mutually exclusive? :celebrate

    MD

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    M1Gunr wrote:
    my comment.....

    First you got use to cussing on TV, then it was ok. Then you got use to sex on TV, again it was alright. Now we got guns out in the open, one day you'll say "It's alright." Get use to it, we are out there and are not going away. I don't carry my gun to make up for any shortages in my anatomy. I carry because the Supreme Court has said that the police are not there to protect you as an individual but to protect society as a whole(see Warren v. District of Columbia). I carry because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
    Oh this is good. I like it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    heresolong wrote:
    Not to quibble too much but this is one of my pet peeves.

    You can't have an "amount of people".* The word amount is reserved for things that can't be counted.* An amount of publicity, a number of people carrying guns.

    Sincerely,*

    Mr. Language Monitor

    What if he was referring to the collective weight of said people. You can't measure that, so would that be "an amount of people"?

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    Machoduck wrote:
    "Sorry, did I mention that my college-education focused on psychology, not language arts? "

    Aren't they mutually exclusive? :celebrate

    MD
    The engineering major asks "How does that work and can I make it better?"

    The physics major asks "What submolecular interaction makes that happen and can I measure it in order to improve our understanding of the universe?"

    The business major asks "How much do they cost and can I make them cheaper?"

    The psychology major asks "Would you like fries with that?"



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    A reply would be interesting. My guess is the guy will read it, fume, and delete it. It's difficult for them to accknowledge common sense and logic. Great Email!
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    heresolong wrote:


    The psychology major asks "Would you like fries with that?"

    Now that is funny.

    As a tradesperson my language and writing skills have improved being on this site.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member kwiebe's Avatar
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    Usually I avoid clicking on anything with Schram's name on it. Was surprised to find out his view on this.

    Also, good letter. You're right about the publicity - talk about backfiring. You can just feel the awareness level rising. Before I came to this forum, only about a year ago, it seemed like open carry was almost a secret. But now I've talked to several people and recently and because of the mentions it has gotten, they catch on right away.

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    I sent an email to Ken in response, saying:

    Mr. Schram,

    Let me preface with saying that you and I normally have differences in our views, although I do appreciate seeing things from the 'other guy's perspective.' I am college-educated, a white-collar worker, former boy scout and search and rescue volunteer, and a father of three. I live in the city and would not be anywhere close tobeing what some people would label a 'redneck.'

    I've been an on-and-off open carrier for a few yearsnow, and like to think I'm fairly prudent with respect to when Ichoose to carry openly versus concealed (which I am licensed to do). While I do not speak for the 'group' I will say that publicity is what the open carry group has lacked. Until now. In the last two or three weeks,Washington CeaseFire has donemore publicityfor us than we could have ever hoped for.After reading these articles and hearing the stories about CeaseFire's efforts to pushfor aban on 'openly carried guns' in the Starbucks locations, people have been very quick to connect the fact that if they are trying to banthe practice, it must begenerally legal. A few keystrokes at Googleand they findthe opencarry.org forum, and thenthe Washington-specific forum (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55), and realize the ability of a normal person to openly carry a handgun in our state.I have personally seen an upswing in the amount of people posting to the forum saying that they are "new to the forum" in these past few weeks.This publicity is more than our small group has had in a long while, and we have CeaseFire to thank for that.

    Thank you for your recent editorial on the Starbucks/Open Carry issue. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I have personally taught firearms safety courses and supervised a local indoor pistol range, and would love to get back into teaching safe gun handling. Guns are not going away, to pretend that they can just become a thing of the past is foolish. Learning to live with (or at least,around) them is a much more responsible approach to the issue.

    If I can be of any assistance with this issue, please do not hesitate to ask.

    Sincerely,

    Jeff ---------
    "G20-IWB24/7" on opencarry.org
    Is this you your attempt at class warfare? Who cares if you are white collar or blue collar. Here is a link to a comparasion of white and blue salaries. I know they took averages under construction worker the wages seems low compared to what I really and I mean really lowmade last year.


    http://blogs.payscale.com/content/20...te-collar.html


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