Support Flint Police

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i have worked for gm for over thirty years, the last ten has been the scary-est. my wages have been cut, and frozen.my pension may not be there when i retire. my health care has had cuts, larger co pays.

all i hear is that us union workers killed this nation. the union got started due to the fact of unfair labor practices of the auto industry, i even had a plant manager, say in a class that i had to sit in, that if it was not for the unions the big three would not exist to day, that there was no way the auto industry could have survived, because it was so corrupt.

now if next monday, us auto workers only made $15 an hour, no benefits, do you think you would still be making the same wage you do now, no most other wages are some what based on the union auto workers wage on. do you really think the price of a new car will come down? that is not how the price of a new car is set at, it is the age and wage of the market of the car that it is marketed for, and how much the marketing firms in the big three believe that market will spend for a car. the auto industry spends more money to advertise its products (30% to 40 % of the cost of a car)then then it pays its workers (10 to 15 %)of the cost of a car), this info came from the Wall Street Journal, where did all that money come from that paid tiger woods to promote gm, Buick open and other things gm spends its money on.

are unions all ways a good thing no! but i would hate to see how things would be in this rat hole of a plant i work in with out a union. unions have there problems there is noquestion about that

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wkhicks wrote:

i have worked for gm for over thirty years, the last ten has been the scary-est. my wages have been cut, and frozen.my pension may not be there when i retire. my health care has had cuts, larger co pays. (Wow now you know what goes on in the regular world)

all i hear is that us union workers killed this nation (More like the Socialist that came up with the concepts of Unions). the union got started due to the fact of unfair labor practices of the auto industry Unfair? If I recall history, People chose to leave the fields & go to work for more money, so who were the greedy ones?) i even had a plant manager, say in a class that i had to sit in, that if it was not for the unions the big three would not exist to day, that there was no way the auto industry could have survived, because it was so corrupt. (So if the free market was left to the natural order of capitalism, the big three would have to comply to the will of the worker/customer, or fail. so basically a union was not, and is not needed)

now if next monday, us auto workers only made $15 an hour, no benefits, do you think you would still be making the same wage you do now (Yes)

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Yes I do make the same, because after all the Auto layoffs, and Auto plant closings. & After all the lay offs and wage reductions at my shop due to MY Job performance, & MY 16 yrs of loyalty my boss realizes that the bottom line is that I produce therefor he profits all this with out a union.) Remember Unions did not raise the standard of living, they raised the cost of living. Electricity, plumbing, and technology raised the standard of living!

no most other wages are some what based on the union auto workers wage on (No Facts to back this arbitrary remark). do you really think the price of a new car will come down? (Yes, just like everything else that have not been over inflated by bad unions) that is not how the price of a new car is set at, it is the age and wage of the market of the car that it is marketed for, and how much the marketing firms in the big three believe that market will spend for a car (Everything adds to the cost, union wages, benefits, & even Govt. Regulations). the auto industry spends more money to advertise its products (30% to 40 % of the cost of a car)then then it pays its workers (10 to 15 %)of the cost of a car)(Thats because you build the car, you don't sell it as long as you get paid what do you care what a company spends IT'S money on advertisement), this info came from the Wall Street Journal, where did all that money come from that paid tiger woods to promote gm, Buick open and other things gm spends its money on.

are unions all ways a good thing no! but i would hate to see how things would be in this rat hole of a plant i work in (No one forced any one to take the job & remain in that rat hole))with out a union. unions have there problems there is noquestion about that (True)

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Don't take all this personal, I'm just tired of hearing how a few guys changed the world, then the rest just road the wave, but act like they too were the part of the fight. All that happened was that a Socialist group declared war on a guy or group who wanted to make a buck. The unions saw room to squeeze a few dollars off the top by Collective bargaining (Strong arming). The Elephant is being taken down by a million tiny arows til you have what we have now, Me bailing out GM, and now the unions own some one else's Company. Now the unions have become what they supposedly fighting to rid the world of...A Greedy Organization!

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My dad, who retired from GM after 35 years was called on election day by a union rep, asking if they could count on his support for a straight democrat vote.

He told the lady "I voted democrat for 35 years in the union because you told me to, I'm losing my pension, my health care, my retirement, probably my house next, I'm just wondering if there is one more democrat I could vote for while I am at it."

People think the unions are bad, and that destroying them would not hurt the country, and that their standard of living will not be affected by the loss of unions.

The fact of the matter is, when the unions lose their wage, everyone else's wage goes down based on this. Some people think, well, my company doesn't do any work with the unions, or I make a good wage because I've been loyal to the company I have been with for 16 years, yada yada. Sure, you might not lose your wage, but when you retire, your replacement's wages will be based on what the union earns, or what the american standard of living is. Which I have heard statisticly, when the union wages are gone, the standard of living in america will go down by 25% overall.

So, tell yourself whatever you need to about how unions ruined the big three, the fact of the matter is, the 20 years of bean counter s*** cars that rolled off their line, their lack of desire to make a quality car for 20+ years, (the fact that a 1982 buick century has the same dashboard as my 1987 buick grand national), the lack of balls to experiment in design, and avoid the car market for all of the 1990's while gas prices skyrocket, and compact cars that actually get gas mileage come onto the scene, meanwhile, inviting the Japanese into our manufacturing plants, showing them what we do, and how they could do it better, and people SOMEHOW being brainwashed into because a car is ASSEMBLED in america, is somehow patriotic (idiotic) is why the big three failed.

My father worked 90 hour weeks for 30 years to give my family a good life, he paid for it by having muscle problems, nerve problems and many other medical problems directly related to the processing of metals used in cars.

For anyone to think the union is bad, needs to get back to what is really bad, the politics, the bean counter executives, and the people who do not buy american made products.

Anyone who doesn't believe that unions are good, and have placed a vote for Carl Levin, or Debbie Stabinow, or Jennifer Granholm need to take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_Sit-Down_Strike and do a little research on why unions are good.

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The history of labor unions in America helps tell the story of why we are losing the middle class. Private-sector unionization was legislated during the Depression. Union membership grew into the mid-20th century, then began a slow decline that continues today. Remember the income distribution numbers: a weak middle class in the Depression, a strong middle class in the decades following, and a weakening middle class now. The way these numbers generally track those for union activity is no coincidence.

Unions equalize power in the market place between those who work and those who own something. Those who work are the stuff of which the middle class is made. Those who own fill the ranks of the very wealthy. When the balance of power is with labor unions, the gains from production stay with the middle class. When the balance shifts as it has today, the very wealthy take an ever-larger share from economic activity.

As the very wealthy become even more so, they do not spend money in the way middle-class people do. After all, how many houses and cars, no matter how fine, can one have? Once people have more money than they can possibly spend on goods and services, they no longer use it in ways that stimulate the economy. Instead, they use the power their money brings to get more tax breaks, less regulation, more support for globalization, and policies that favor capital over labor. The middle class continues to weaken.

In spite of all this, we are told not to worry, because the United States is becoming what some politicians call an "ownership society." Instead of supporting unions that bring decent wages to working people, we are advised to buy shares in the corporations that profit when wages are falling. Meanwhile, we ignore the most important aspect of our economy -- that we are a great market for goods and services.

The trouble with all strategies that trade good jobs for cheap toasters is that they eventually erode that very market for the goods and services. A handful of hyper-wealthy individuals, along with millions of people living on the economic edge, are not the sound, stable market needed for growth. Only the middle class, with buying power widely distributed, can provide that. And that is what we are losing today.

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

Start a program, and at the cost of One man's salary, you can train 20 and issue them radios, vests and badges - even keep a special frequency for them.

Then, when called, they can respond as needed.

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The program already exists...with the approval of the Dept. of Homeland Security, within the Citizen Corps, you'll find the VIP (volunteers in policing) program as well as Neighborhood Watch and CERT.


http://citizencorps.gov/programs/


There was, and may be, federal grant money available.

Carry on

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cross pistols, dream on if your boss could replace you with a new person, making half your wage, and can do your job just as good as you if not a little better, you would be fired in a hart beat and replaced.

the problem with this nation is so many jobs have been sent over sea's that their is all most nothing left. this nation has went from a industrial giant before WWII, to a industrial wimp now.

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Unions= Marksist, unions= commUNIONist, you don't have to go far to see the correlation between the several examples. Kyle, Perhaps you have lived in LennonGrad too long. The brainwashed all seem to me to march in lockstep with an ideal that has run its course and should be eliminated. If you think that the unions aren't a parasitical organization I won't be able to change your mind because I don't have the money to dangle in front of you as a promise of prosperity. How does it happen that a person works for a parisitical organization for 30 or 35 years(which is it?) for 90 hrs a week and still has a chance of loosing his house? That makes no sense to me at all. Looks from the outside looking in that the misappropriation of funds goes farther than the union leaders. Sorry if I make you mad but I too have listened to more than a few union crybabies whine about tough times over their sub-pay and spent/squandered wages to feel any sorrow for shop workers that lived beyond their means. Personal responsibility means something to me. Once again, my apologies If I have offended you personally.springerdave.

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Uhh....how did " Support Flint Police " turn into "Unions are evil!" "Unions are good" "Unions are evil!"????

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springerdave wrote:

Unions= Marksist, unions= commUNIONist, you don't have to go far to see the correlation between the several examples. Kyle, Perhaps you have lived in LennonGrad too long. The brainwashed all seem to me to march in lockstep with an ideal that has run its course and should be eliminated. If you think that the unions aren't a parasitical organization I won't be able to change your mind because I don't have the money to dangle in front of you as a promise of prosperity. How does it happen that a person works for a parisitical organization for 30 or 35 years(which is it?) for 90 hrs a week and still has a chance of loosing his house? That makes no sense to me at all. Looks from the outside looking in that the misappropriation of funds goes farther than the union leaders. Sorry if I make you mad but I too have listened to more than a few union crybabies whine about tough times over their sub-pay and spent/squandered wages to feel any sorrow for shop workers that lived beyond their means. Personal responsibility means something to me. Once again, my apologies If I have offended you personally.springerdave.

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+1

I had an uncle tell me over 30 years ago--I was in alaborer unionworking construction at the time--the unions would destroy this country, I laughed in his face.

How truly wrong I was.

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American Boy With a Gun wrote:

Uhh....how did " Support Flint Police " turn into "Unions are evil!" "Unions are good" "Unions are evil!"????

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Oh, IDK, maybe because the the police in flint are commUNIONized:what::banghead:.springerdave.

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kyleplusitunes wrote:

...when the union wages are gone, the standard of living in america will go down by 25% overall.

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No, the cost of living would lower; the standard of living would raise.


ETA: I don't have anything against unions generally. It's natural human nature to form associations with others. We do it all the time in business, athletics, lodges, MOC, etc. Humans are drawn to participation in groups. At a time when working conditions were poor, humans banded together to stand up for themselves. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Today, however, there are several instances where these unions act as parasites to their hosts, demanding an above-market wage for their services under the threat of non-performance if their demands aren't granted. Well, the business or .gov has to decide if it's going to continue to work with the unions or not. In many cases, it's a benefit to the company to discontinue relations, even if that means a temporary furlough to production.

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khicks wrote:

cross pistols, dream on if your boss could replace you with a new person, making half your wage, and can do your job just as good as you if not a little better, you would be fired in a hart beat and replaced.

the problem with this nation is so many jobs have been sent over sea's that their is all most nothing left. this nation has went from a industrial giant before WWII, to a industrial wimp now.

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He could replace me tomorrow this is an at will state, but why would he hire a new guy at half the wage, then have to invest money, and time into training a new guy he knows nothing about? You made my point...the fact that he did not replace me shows his understanding of true free market capitalism. I am there everyday, I get the job completed, I take pride in my work, and take care of my customers, and equipment. He knows all this about me, and he knows I will give 110 percent.