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Not even NRA members support carry!

kparker

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BigDave,

I understand your overall point, but in the recent Starbucks stuff did we really have anyone at all who was expressing unhappiness with Starbucks itself, rather than with the Brady folks?
 

BigDave

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kparker wrote:
BigDave,

I understand your overall point, but in the recent Starbucks stuff did we really have anyone at all who was expressing unhappiness with Starbucks itself, rather than with the Brady folks?
For the majority of what I saw in video and read it was a good representation of the open carry movement.

But I have to be honest here, when I seen the cowboy type revolver and holster brought to mind the old comments of "Wild Wild West" while I do not personal have an issue of this carry but I feel those on the fence has helped push some over the fence (even though he was well dressed and respectful).

Like it or not, how we present ourselves, others will make their choices based on appearance only and well they do have a voice and vote.

Do we tailor ourselves to achieve others backing, well it is each persons choice.
 

heresolong

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BigDave wrote:
kparker wrote:
BigDave,

I understand your overall point, but in the recent Starbucks stuff did we really have anyone at all who was expressing unhappiness with Starbucks itself, rather than with the Brady folks?
But I have to be honest here, when I seen the cowboy type revolver and holster brought to mind the old comments of "Wild Wild West" while I do not personal have an issue of this carry but I feel those on the fence has helped push some over the fence (even though he was well dressed and respectful).
I would suspect, however, that if seeing someone openly carrying a firearm in a respectful and legal manner pushed someone over the fence, they probably weren't far from the fence to begin with. We weren't ever going to convince that person. They were just waiting to be on the other side.

I think a better point was made earlier that many more people now realize it is legal than prior to the coverage that we have received.
 

BigDave

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heresolong wrote
I would suspect, however, that if seeing someone openly carrying a firearm in a respectful and legal manner pushed someone over the fence, they probably weren't far from the fence to begin with. We weren't ever going to convince that person. They were just waiting to be on the other side.

I think a better point was made earlier that many more people now realize it is legal than prior to the coverage that we have received.
Being on the fence and it falls our way it better then falling the other.

I feel Starbucks has done the cause a great deal of good for open and concealed as legally armed citizens and by those who showed up did a service in presenting them as respectful citizens.

Impressions in the public can do good or harm no matter how right we are, it is something we need to keep in mind.
 

heresolong

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BigDave wrote:
heresolong wrote
I would suspect, however, that if seeing someone openly carrying a firearm in a respectful and legal manner pushed someone over the fence, they probably weren't far from the fence to begin with. We weren't ever going to convince that person. They were just waiting to be on the other side.

I think a better point was made earlier that many more people now realize it is legal than prior to the coverage that we have received.
Being on the fence and it falls our way it better then falling the other.
I totally agree. I'm just not convinced that people who come out against us because of a western holster were ever going to be on our side on this issue.
 

gogodawgs

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heresolong wrote:
BigDave wrote:
heresolong wrote
I would suspect, however, that if seeing someone openly carrying a firearm in a respectful and legal manner pushed someone over the fence, they probably weren't far from the fence to begin with. We weren't ever going to convince that person. They were just waiting to be on the other side.

I think a better point was made earlier that many more people now realize it is legal than prior to the coverage that we have received.
Being on the fence and it falls our way it better then falling the other.
I totally agree. I'm just not convinced that people who come out against us because of a western holster were ever going to be on our side on this issue.
I agree. I guess I am a little confused by the western holster comment. If a 70yo gentleman in nice Wranglers, cowboy boots, cowboy hat wears a western style I don't think many would give it much thought. If you are refering to Bat in jeans and a nice shirt, then I am confused. Seems the Brady's would rather see the Western style and a six shooter than my black Sig.
 

.45ACPaddy

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Let me add why I took the approach that I did:

My next door neighbors are avid 2a supporters. Unfortunately, their 16 year old daughter had been involved with a less favorable crowd for a while. My next door neighbor's house had been burglarized twice in a year during this time.

After she got caught committing a crime and being put in juvy, I convinced her to check out the youth group at my church a few blocks away and advised her that the best way to stay out of trouble is to cut herself off from that crowd. She ended up following my advice and doing so, and started receiving threats from people in that crowd. There was even a couple of instances where they'd pull up in front of her house with the headlights off and two guys would get out and circle the house.

Considering the combination of them having broken in twice already, and the threats that have been made, I am choosing to be as ready as I can, just in case. I wasn't going to aim anywhere unless I was sure of my target (rule number 4 of firearm safety), which is why I stopped and listened to see who it was. Looking back, I wouldn't have changed a dang thing.
 

kito109654

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G22Paddy wrote:
Let me add why I took the approach that I did:

My next door neighbors are avid 2a supporters. Unfortunately, their 16 year old daughter had been involved with a less favorable crowd for a while. My next door neighbor's house had been burglarized twice in a year during this time.

After she got caught committing a crime and being put in juvy, I convinced her to check out the youth group at my church a few blocks away and advised her that the best way to stay out of trouble is to cut herself off from that crowd. She ended up following my advice and doing so, and started receiving threats from people in that crowd. There was even a couple of instances where they'd pull up in front of her house with the headlights off and two guys would get out and circle the house.

Considering the combination of them having broken in twice already, and the threats that have been made, I am choosing to be as ready as I can, just in case. I wasn't going to aim anywhere unless I was sure of my target (rule number 4 of firearm safety), which is why I stopped and listened to see who it was. Looking back, I wouldn't have changed a dang thing.
Not that it's anybody's business to judge how you handle your own home. I had no problem with it.
 

Hammer

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Wouldn't it be better put to say "Not even grandfathers support OC" ???
I'm an NRA Life member- actually an Endowment member, and I support OC.
I'm a grandfather too.
Maybe this is more an individual thing than a member of a certain club thing.
 

Dave_pro2a

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Dave Workman wrote:
Well, I just got off the telephone with a nice gentleman from Arlington, WA who tells me in no uncertain terms that he believes the "in-your-face" approach (his words not mine) of open carry activists is going to alienate the middle masses and a lot of shooters.

His comment: "If it comes to a vote, I'll vote against (open carry)."

His shooting buddies, he says, are right there with him.

Something to think about.
FUDDS and Zumbos. They already probably vote Democrat or RHINO anyways. Just think of dear old Bill Ruger.

There willl be no convincing them, and their ilk, what the 2A really means. There will be no convincing them what a fragile thread it currently hangs from, and that pushing back now is vital.

In a sense, he's absolutely correct. In another sense, the time to fight (via peaceful political action) is NOW, because in 20 years the liberal elites will have indoctrinated the next generation and it'll be a lost cause.
 

BigDave

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G22Paddy wrote:
Let me add why I took the approach that I did:

My next door neighbors are avid 2a supporters. Unfortunately, their 16 year old daughter had been involved with a less favorable crowd for a while. My next door neighbor's house had been burglarized twice in a year during this time.

After she got caught committing a crime and being put in juvy, I convinced her to check out the youth group at my church a few blocks away and advised her that the best way to stay out of trouble is to cut herself off from that crowd. She ended up following my advice and doing so, and started receiving threats from people in that crowd. There was even a couple of instances where they'd pull up in front of her house with the headlights off and two guys would get out and circle the house.

Considering the combination of them having broken in twice already, and the threats that have been made, I am choosing to be as ready as I can, just in case. I wasn't going to aim anywhere unless I was sure of my target (rule number 4 of firearm safety), which is why I stopped and listened to see who it was. Looking back, I wouldn't have changed a dang thing.
What is the problem with calling out from a secured position to determine who it was, then to subject yourself to being spotted first and if it was someone with a gun Bang Your Dead!

Clearing a home even your own is dangerous and takes technique and practice and with more then one to be effective and only should be done where there is a known immediate threat. The only information you had was a shuffle in the hallway, there has been instances where people have shot and killed loved ones doing what you did!
 

Machoduck

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Hammer wrote:
Wouldn't it be better put to say "Not even grandfathers support OC" ???
I'm an NRA Life member- actually an Endowment member, and I support OC.
I'm a grandfather too.
Maybe this is more an individual thing than a member of a certain club thing.
Me too Hammer. NRA Endowment member and grandfather.

I think that a lot of the reactions in regard to open carry being "confrontational" are a holdover from the time when there were fewer of us willing to "man the barricades" so to speak. I know that in my case the last thing on my mind was to be an activist. Anything that made me even remotely like the idiots supporting Che Guevara was anathema. I'm not sure if I even know all the things that happened to convert me to the activist position I now hold. I'm sure that part of it is the desire to accomplish something that creates a better world for my kids and their kids.

I do know that gun prohibition would be anathema to that future. So far we've been nibbled to death by ducks in the drive to prohibit guns. By the way, make no mistake in realizing that the end game is total prohibition of guns in the hands of citizens. The Founding Fathers were absolutely correct.

They knew that the war between England and Scotland, which produced a weapons control law in 1756, was a perfect telescope into our future, absent steps to prevent it. The second amendment was absolutely political, thereby. The Founders could not have even imagined a society where self defense was questioned or that hunting would be all but outmoded with the presence of huge metropolitan areas. No, it was about political resistance.

Oh well, enough soap box! :cuss:

MD
 

killchain

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G22Paddy wrote:
I got up to use the bathroom around 5am, heard a shuffle in the hallway and went to investigate with my pistol at a low ready (pointed at the ground!). Turned out to be my grandfather getting up and making coffee. I had quietly creeped up the hallway to the kitchen to see what it was, and as soon as I heard the familiar sound of my grandfather's slippers against the hardwood floor, I knew who it was. So I came out and breathed a sigh of relief as I holstered my pistol and said "Thank God it's you, I've never known you to be up this early!" He responded that he didn't know I was up this late. So I told him that I had gotten up to go the bathroom and heard shuffling in the hall, went to investigate, found it to be him, etc etc. He basically said that my carrying of a pistol is gonna get me put in jail! Note: When I first started carrying 6 months ago, he told me that you never carry a gun unless you intend to use it. This is coming from a lifetime NRA member! WTF?! Aren't the supposed to support us? Or at least support our right to bear arms in defense of ourselves? How is it that me carrying in my own defense is going to get me automatically put in jail?


I am quite frankly disheartened by this attitude by a lifetime NRA member!

WTF?!
Well... if you AREN'T going to use it when you have to... he has a point.

No point carrying a pocket knife either if you're not going to use it to cut things open. Or a cell phone if you're not going to take or make calls.
 

Bear 45/70

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BigDave wrote:
This is not about NRA Members and I agree with the Grandfather view on the issue, first chance you get you over react and go into full warrior or combat mode instead of taking into account who else is living in the house.

Why could you not have stopped and listened longer or just announce "Hey Grandpa is that you?"
You really have no idea of what is required for true self defense. Your way is a real good way to get hurt or dead if there was actually a bad guy in the house and until you actually confirm who it is you have to keep thinking "bad guy". You assume way to much and some day, unless you are real lucky, some bad guy is gonna take your gun away from you and use it on you. Maybe you better switch sides and become Bradyized.
 

Bear 45/70

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heresolong wrote:
erps wrote:
I am not sure what type of vote he would have? Can you expand on that comment?
Unfortunately, the Heller case opened up a can of worms by allowing "reasonable restrictions".
The Heller case didn't really "allow" reasonable restrictions, they just agreed that reasonable restrictions could continue. RR have always been allowed when dealing with any Constitutional right. The question has always been what is reasonable.
Yeah, but name one other Constitutional Right that say "shall not be infringed" then I might buy you reasonable restrictions theory, but until then "shall not be infringed" means NO RESTRICTIONS, because any restriction is an infringment.
 

Batousaii

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To be honest Dave, and please dont take this as an affront, i have had alot more people approach me with interest and curiosity than anything, and the only potentially bad encounter i had with an officer ended well, with shaking hands in a "rebooted" by name introduction and a conversation, the officer even saying he would be interested in learning more about it so that he could respond in a more appropriate manner on future encounters (not a quote, but that was the jist). To be certain, i carry this way because it fits my personality, i dont carry to impress anyone or to show it off. I carry for me, not for them. Anyone who feels they absolutely need to be conformed via the standard slim little auto in a serpa holster tucked inconspicuously and unassumingly against their waistline is missing the point of American freedom, and expression of self. A person should carry what the like, what they trust, and what fits their personality. Besides, nothing will be normalised if no one notices it, you might as well be concealed at that point. I too love my .45acp Colt 1911, and carry it when it fits my mood, i can use any of my pistols with exceptional skill, and would pend my life on any i choose to carry. The people that encounter me and choose to converse, are met with etiquette, manners and politeness, respect and chivalry. The few that may have fallen to the brady side of the fence via my old sixgun are greatly outnumbered by the positive encounters of interested and pleasant folks. This includes mom's with kids, old ladies commenting on the beauty of it's old fashion, an gentlemen that like to talk abut reloading and some teams with soda bottles that raised em up as said "thats F'in cool dude" (the last gave me a chuckle). I admit i receive a few odd looks, and a couple scowls, but we are not going to please them all, and those folks usually get a polite respectful nod, and i leave em alone. So fear not, for iwont beout there acting in an uncouth manner, nor am I shoving anything in anyones face with intentional mischief.

Kindly

;)Bat (with the sixgun)
 

heresolong

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BigDave wrote:
The only information you had was a shuffle in the hallway, there has been instances where people have shot and killed loved ones doing what you did!
Well this appears to be a huge amount of anti-gun propaganda. True, that there have been people shot and killed loved ones while clearing their house.

Not one of them would have been shot and killed had the homeowner followed proper procedure. You don't shoot unless you know what you are shooting at.

In this case the OP was armed and ready in the event that it was an intruder, and he determined that it was a family member and stood down. In my opinion his grandfather was in no danger but had the OP left his gun in the bedroom to check on his GF first, he could be dead from a hostile intruder.

Everything done perfectly, no danger to his family. IMHO.
 
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