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Thread: EVERYONE READ THIS!

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Guys,

    We probably just won the most significant case involving gun rights in the last 200 years, have seen unprecedented advancement of gun rights over the last several decades against a concerted effort by anti-gun forces, and have been successful in starting the process of normalizing carry and making gun rights a non-partisan civil rights issue.

    We are winning in the legislatures, the judiciary and the courts of public opinion. It is a time of great joy for those of us who believe in civil rights! The struggles continue and will always do so but we should move forward happily knowing that we ARE making a difference!

    And yet still there are those who would see the cup as half empty and draining.

    I spend HOURS that I do not have every day dealing with the rantings of a few extremists who believe that the system is irretrievably broken and cannot be fixed or who espouse secession or any number of other fringe issues.

    These topics are NOT welcome here!!! The Republic is strong, the Constitution is sound and we should be happy today while planning for an even better tomorrow.

    There are other forums for fringe issues but they are not here and you are taking time away from actual progress!

    Thanks.


    John

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    Amen to that.

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    Preach it brother!

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    Thank you, this just became my signature for today.

    "I spend HOURS that I do not have every day dealing with the rantings of a few extremists who believe that the system is irretrievably broken and cannot be fixed or who espouse secession or any number of other fringe issues.These topics are NOT welcome here!!! "

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    Ooops! I don't know that *I* have cost you "hours of dealing with the rantings of a few extremists,"but I do agree (and have so stated) that I hold "fringe" views. Consequently, if it would serve the Forum better, I can just read here but no longer post.

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  6. #6
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    John D,

    You are welcome to 'hold' fringe views all you want on either side of the political spectrum.

    I just want to keep the posts here about open carry and gun rights.

    Thanks!


    John P


    cloudcroft wrote:
    Ooops! I don't know that *I* have cost you "hours of dealing with the rantings of a few extremists,"but I do agree (and have so stated) that I hold "fringe" views. Consequently, if it would serve the Forum better, I can just read here but no longer post.

    -- John D.

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    jpierce wrote:
    Guys,


    I spend HOURS that I do not have every day dealing with the rantings of a few extremists who believe that the system is irretrievably broken and cannot be fixed or who espouse secession or any number of other fringe issues.

    These topics are NOT welcome here!!! The Republic is strong, the Constitution is sound and we should be happy today while planning for an even better tomorrow.

    There are other forums for fringe issues but they are not here and you are taking time away from actual progress!

    Thanks.


    John
    Fringe topics such as? Topics pertaining to the Second Amendment and guns? Topics pertaining to the legal carry of firearms in National Parks?

    I understand you own the board and can delete and lock posts at will, but it would help if you provided some criteria as to what exactly is to be considered "extreme" or "fringe" here.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    jpierce wrote:
    John D,

    You are welcome to 'hold' fringe views all you want on either side of the political spectrum.

    I just want to keep the posts here about open carry.

    Thanks!


    John P


    cloudcroft wrote:
    Ooops! I don't know that *I* have cost you "hours of dealing with the rantings of a few extremists,"but I do agree (and have so stated) that I hold "fringe" views. Consequently, if it would serve the Forum better, I can just read here but no longer post.

    -- John D.
    I'm all for keeping the forum respectful and on point about open carry. That being said, it's pretty hard to keep open carry separate from the inherent rights that justify it. It's almost impossible for people not to present their views when talking about it; especially when trying to explain the why's and the wherefores to newcomers.

    I can agree that there should be a cutoff point (and a couple cutoffs are obvious) but when does fringe get too close to the edge? Where is the line drawn. How do we attract and keep the all important new members without slighting and losing old ones?

    The mere act of open carry is considered "fringe" by some. My libertarian views on rights are considered "fringe" by others. Then there is the far left and right of the political spectrum.

    Don't get me wrong, I can definitely respect the idea of trying to keep things "moderate" from the perspective of attracting and keeping more members but how do we do it? Should there be a welcome party of people with slightly better social skills that are the only ones that can reply to the newbies until they've reached a certain post count? Then slowly add in more "fringier" views?

    Should there be private sections of the forum that can only be accessed after someone's been around for a while?

    I enjoy this forum precisely because it's more than about guns, guns, guns, like many others out there. We can talk about things that are much deeper than "It's my right!" People cite laws, case law, founding documents, and jurisprudence that got us here. With that comes peoples views on the aforementioned. I don't believe you can separate open carry from it and still have a forum and organization that is so successful.

    In short; beyond being civil and respectful of others, where is the line drawn in the proverbial sand?


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  9. #9
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    None of what you describe below is off limits. Laws, case law, founding documents, and jurisprudence and the comments that accompany them are examples of what we ARE about. That is NOT what I am asking to not be posted.

    I will post some examples here as I find them but I think most of you will agree when I post them.

    Some quick examples are:

    - Anti Tax Rants
    - Anti Immigrant Rants
    - Anti Gay Rants
    - Talk about Secession
    - Anti LEO rants which have nothing to do with a specific bad act against a gun carrier
    - Anti politician rants that have nothing to do with anti-gun sentiment (which we definitely should discuss)

    Make sense?

    Thanks!


    John

    Brass Magnet wrote:
    jpierce wrote:
    John D,

    You are welcome to 'hold' fringe views all you want on either side of the political spectrum.

    I just want to keep the posts here about open carry.

    Thanks!


    John P


    cloudcroft wrote:
    Ooops! I don't know that *I* have cost you "hours of dealing with the rantings of a few extremists,"but I do agree (and have so stated) that I hold "fringe" views. Consequently, if it would serve the Forum better, I can just read here but no longer post.

    -- John D.
    I'm all for keeping the forum respectful and on point about open carry. That being said, it's pretty hard to keep open carry separate from the inherent rights that justify it. It's almost impossible for people not to present their views when talking about it; especially when trying to explain the why's and the wherefores to newcomers.

    I can agree that there should be a cutoff point (and a couple cutoffs are obvious) but when does fringe get too close to the edge? Where is the line drawn. How do we attract and keep the all important new members without slighting and losing old ones?

    The mere act of open carry is considered "fringe" by some. My libertarian views on rights are considered "fringe" by others. Then there is the far left and right of the political spectrum.

    Don't get me wrong, I can definitely respect the idea of trying to keep things "moderate" from the perspective of attracting and keeping more members but how do we do it? Should there be a welcome party of people with slightly better social skills that are the only ones that can reply to the newbies until they've reached a certain post count? Then slowly add in more "fringier" views?

    Should there be private sections of the forum that can only be accessed after someone's been around for a while?

    I enjoy this forum precisely because it's more than about guns, guns, guns, like many others out there. We can talk about things that are much deeper than "It's my right!" People cite laws, case law, founding documents, and jurisprudence that got us here. With that comes peoples views on the aforementioned. I don't believe you can separate open carry from it and still have a forum and organization that is so successful.

    In short; beyond being civil and respectful of others, where is the line drawn in the proverbial sand?


  10. #10
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    So I was out and about open carrying my shotgun...

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    Prophet wrote:
    So I was out and about open carrying my shotgun...
    ..... and it occurred to me that I should start my own website about this very thing, instead of antagonizing the folks that have focused their website on normalizing the open carry of handguns in everyday life.


    Just a suggestion I thought of after reading your post.

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    Mr. Pierce,

    Would 4 Supreme Court Justices voting AGAINST correct interpretation of the Second Amendment's protection of an individual right qualify as "extremist" or "fringe?"

  13. #13
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    No. This would be on-topic.

    BARELY ILLEGAL wrote:
    Mr. Pierce,

    Would 4 Supreme Court Justices voting AGAINST correct interpretation of the Second Amendment's protection of an individual right qualify as "extremist" or "fringe?"

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    jpierce wrote:
    None of what you describe below is off limits. Laws, case law, founding documents, and jurisprudence and the comments that accompany them are examples of what we ARE about. That is NOT what I am asking to not be posted.

    I will post some examples here as I find them but I think most of you will agree when I post them.

    Some quick examples are:

    - Anti Tax Rants
    - Anti Immigrant Rants
    - Anti Gay Rants
    - Talk about Secession
    - Anti LEO rants which have nothing to do with a specific bad act against a gun carrier
    - Anti politician rants that have nothing to do with anti-gun sentiment (which we definitely should discuss)

    Make sense?

    Thanks!


    John
    Makes sense to me.
    R[ƎVO˩]UTION

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    Regular Member KaosDad's Avatar
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    10-4, Sir!



    Now, about the gay, illegal, IRS agent who wants to seceed from the Union..... :P
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." B. Franklin

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    KaosDad wrote:
    10-4, Sir!



    Now, about the gay, illegal, IRS agent who wants to seceed from the Union..... :P
    Don't you mean the gay, illegal, IRS agent who is running for political office, who wantsLEOs to seceed from the Union?





    John

    I agree wholeheartedly, and am glad you didn't list "humor" in with the other items.

  17. #17
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Humor is always welcome!



    Decoligny wrote:
    KaosDad wrote:
    10-4, Sir!



    Now, about the gay, illegal, IRS agent who wants to seceed from the Union..... :P
    Don't you mean the gay, illegal, IRS agent who is running for political office, who wantsLEOs to seceed from the Union?





    John

    I agree wholeheartedly, and am glad you didn't list "humor" in with the other items.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    No this is OCDO, we are on the internet, this is serious business!


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    What John is trying to say, from my conversations with him, and my work on this subject is the following:

    OpenCarry.com is about the lawful carry of Firearms Openly and concrete intelligent discussion about following the laws or needed changes in the law.

    The problem has occurred where some fringe elements have creeped up that have condoned violating the law, assassination of political figures, destruction of government facilities and revolt against the government. With unfortunate instances of anti-government people firing on officers at the Pentagon, Flying planes into IRS buildings, we need to make clear that the citizens carrying of weapons has nothing to do with revolt against the government, but instead our own personal rights and protecting ourselves and families.

    The issue that often happens is that the far-extremes of both sides of political thought often try to take over movements. We run the risk that with this political climate that some moron not affiliated with our movement will advocate violence on this board, and then commit violence. I am of the opinion that there are several people who have engaged in illegal activities on this board, and that more than one of them is affiliated with the neo-nazi movement, and another seems to be an agent provocateur of sorts attempting to goad members into saying questionable things.

    This movement has been successful because there are a wide variety of people from LEOS, ministers, liberals, conservatives and even x-anti gun activists who have joined us from all parts of the US.

    That being said, I urge everyone to take into consideration that any US vs. THEM attitude is harmful and destructive. Most Americans don't see everything eye-to-eye but we have more common goals and interests that should bring us together.

    Bless,

    Pace

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    I understand fully. OP is not saying we can't talk about these things- he's saying we don't talk about these things on OC.ORG. This forum is for openly carrying handguns- so we will discuss openly carrying handguns- other forums are for other general topics. The Devil's Advocate will explain that the Second Amendment is jointly tied into the fabric of everyday life- as is the First and Fourth and Fifth- and Sixteenth: which includes taxes and the lack thereof. When I explain open carry- I encompass all of our natural rights as human beings- this includes the right to be self-sufficient and the right to own one's property, out right. While explaining why I OC- I often get into topics such as State Sovereignty, 16th Amendment Taxes, and sometimes even Illegal immigrants. It's commonly believed that the first Gun Control Laws were enacted to keep newly-freed black slaves from owning guns. Over time- some come to believe that gun controls laws have also been used to curb illegal immigrants from possessing and distributing these weapons.

    The open carry conversion, for me, will often include the very topics you wish to stifle with your original post.

    Just Devil's Advocate. I, of course, will be following the rules on this web forum.

    Carry on!

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    Pace wrote:
    That being said, I urge everyone to take into consideration that any US vs. THEM attitude is harmful and destructive. Most Americans don't see everything eye-to-eye but we have more common goals and interests that should bring us together.

    Bless,

    Pace
    In other words...
    We have to stop being divided by what we don't agree on, and start being united by what we do agree on.
    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent.
    Louis Dembitz Brandeis

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    kadar wrote:
    Pace wrote:
    That being said, I urge everyone to take into consideration that any US vs. THEM attitude is harmful and destructive. Most Americans don't see everything eye-to-eye but we have more common goals and interests that should bring us together.

    Bless,

    Pace
    In other words...
    We have to stop being divided by what we don't agree on, and start being united by what we do agree on.
    Like the open carrying of rifles

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    kadar wrote:
    In other words...
    We have to stop being divided by what we don't agree on, and start being united by what we do agree on.
    Really?

    Not far away a scuffle for leadership is going on. One of the contestants just confessed the most bathetic irrationalism, and that he capitalizes on his customers' similar ignorance.

    So we're supposed to unite behind a wannabe-would be with a gross misconception?

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA ******* ******* the Obamination and its thugs.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    It used to be said that the law-abiding citizen would affect change "within the system", using the means and mechanisms built into the government itself to bring about the desired change.

    However, after the shenanigans pulled in the Virginia Senate this week, I'm not sure that those in charge of that very process of "change within the system" have the concept down.

    As PVC alluded in one of his interviews yesterday, how are we supposed to push for change within the system, when those tasked with running the system circumvent that very same process to ensure their own desired outcome?

    It's been a very disappointing week.

    TFred


  25. #25
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    Fringe: Means those who advocate anything outside the system. That included the guy who is now probably going to end up with Secret Service Agents outside his door for a death threat.

    Other Topics: Conversations about inherent rights do nothing in the system. I can talk all day about my libertarian viewpoints and what I believe in, but that does not help a court case, nor an encounter with the police.

    People OC for a variety of reasons, some protection, some protest, some because its 120' degrees in the summer in Arizona. To preach that OC means this or that we are doing it because we want to protect ourselves against the evil regime of Obabushinton, is good and dandy, but does not address the issues at hand.

    Ok Topics are obviously: "How to educate people that 2A refers to OC."
    Bad Topic: I believe that 2A was created by the deity Ba'al to defend ourselves from the space invaders that will arrive in the 22nd century. I can prove this because if I take every 5th letter and then divide it by 10, I get the words "Jumping Jehosophat!"

    The 2A movement, and the OC movement has worked hard on focusing on the Law, the Courts. The great thing about 2A and the Constitution folks, is that no matter what you believe, if its Ba'al or your own personal protection, it protects you. That's where we all come together, right now...




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