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Innocents victimized when a Warrant is served

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SmokeaCigShootaSig

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May 19, 2009
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Hello All- During a segment of "Man Hunters" (A US Marshall Fugitive Recovery Task Force), this group hit Two incorrect houses after 2am, trying to serve a warrant on an armed and dangerous fugitive. Now, I am a law abiding citizen, my family are law abiding citizens. There are small children in my house sometimes (Split custody), and we pray before bed, tuck in tight, and hit the hay early (for Daddy and Uncle have to wake up at 4am & 5am to hit the morning commute).

In any event, I was wondering your take- or the legal ramifications if/when poor intelligence and poor planning lead a Paramilitary ‘Law Enforcement ‘ team to bust your door down after 2am and terrorize your family.

During the last episode of “Man Hunters” two incorrect houses were hit prior to them hitting the correct house (Third time is a charm, I suppose). But It got me thinking as I watched my pumpkin sleep, “WHAT IF???” … At 2am, My Door was crashed through, with a lot of yelling and commotion; my pistol would probably be emptied in 2-3seconds into the doorway. THEN WHAT?! My family is minus one… OR out of shear commotion and gunfire my entire house is dropped off this earth by a Bad Mistake.

Home invasions are more common these days; many of whom impersonate Law Enforcement.

Looks like this is a no-win situation.


:cry:
 
JJ

JJ

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SmokeaCigShootaSig wrote:
During the last episode of “Man Hunters” two incorrect houses were hit prior to them hitting the correct house (Third time is a charm, I suppose). But It got me thinking as I watched my pumpkin sleep, “WHAT IF???” … At 2am, My Door was crashed through, with a lot of yelling and commotion; my pistol would probably be emptied in 2-3seconds into the doorway. THEN WHAT?! My family is minus one… OR out of shear commotion and gunfire my entire house is dropped off this earth by a Bad Mistake.


:cry:
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While I in no way agree with their tactics or lack of good intel, in their defense they did not "crash through the door" (I saw the episode). I agree, there was a lot of yelling and commotion while they pounded on the front door and demanded the occupants to let them in. For those who didn't see the TV show, they were in Peurto (sp.?)Rico searching for a fugitive who was on the run for nine years after shooting someone 23 times. (the victim survived!!)
And they had about ten heavily armed agents in full battle gear, making it very obvious they were LEO's. AGAIN, I don't agree with their going ahead with their manhunt at these houses without being completely sure they were at the right place.
 
S

Statkowski

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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That says it all.
 
mjones

mjones

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Prescott, AZ
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MudCamper wrote:
No-knock warrants can and do lead to death of both innocent citizen and cop. They are an extremely bad idea, and should be illegal.
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I am saddened by the fact that if this ever happens in my home that my wife will likely be made a widow :(
 
Legend_AB

Legend_AB

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Redlands, California, USA
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While I agree that no-knock search warrants and raids are a bad thing and shouldn't happen, there is one thing we could do:

Rule #4

Be sure of your target and of what is beyond it

Don't get me wrong, in the heat of the moment I probably wouldn't remember to follow the rules either.
 
P

Pace

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If they are serving a warrant on the wrong address, they are liable for the damage and violating your civil rights. A warrant gives them the right to enter a specific address, period.

I know a former member of that task force in PR, I'm going to ask him about it, very, very strange. The USMS Fugative Recovery task forces are usually very, very good about what they do, knowing the layout, which house they are going in, which is why they have almost never had violent confrontations in the last 10 years or so that new rules were put into place.

As for fake law enforcement, I know what you mean. Someone in NYC a few years ago made the mistake of coming out with a badge and a radio and start asking me to get out of the car. He ended up on the ground with a knee in the back of his head - he had bought a "bounty hunter" badge on the internet and decided to play cop.



SmokeaCigShootaSig wrote:
Hello All- During a segment of "Man Hunters" (A US Marshall Fugitive Recovery Task Force), this group hit Two incorrect houses after 2am, trying to serve a warrant on an armed and dangerous fugitive. Now, I am a law abiding citizen, my family are law abiding citizens. There are small children in my house sometimes (Split custody), and we pray before bed, tuck in tight, and hit the hay early (for Daddy and Uncle have to wake up at 4am & 5am to hit the morning commute).

In any event, I was wondering your take- or the legal ramifications if/when poor intelligence and poor planning lead a Paramilitary ‘Law Enforcement ‘ team to bust your door down after 2am and terrorize your family.

During the last episode of “Man Hunters” two incorrect houses were hit prior to them hitting the correct house (Third time is a charm, I suppose). But It got me thinking as I watched my pumpkin sleep, “WHAT IF???” … At 2am, My Door was crashed through, with a lot of yelling and commotion; my pistol would probably be emptied in 2-3seconds into the doorway. THEN WHAT?! My family is minus one… OR out of shear commotion and gunfire my entire house is dropped off this earth by a Bad Mistake.

Home invasions are more common these days; many of whom impersonate Law Enforcement.

Looks like this is a no-win situation.


:cry:
Click to expand...
 
JJ

JJ

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East Contra Costa County, California, ,
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Pace wrote:
If they are serving a warrant on the wrong address, they are liable for the damage and violating your civil rights. A warrant gives them the right to enter a specific address, period.

Click to expand...

I believe all they had was an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. Also, they only had a vague description of the house, which was on a dead end street, from an informant.
 
G

greg36ff

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Statkowski wrote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Click to expand...

That says it all.
Click to expand...

No knock warrants must be approved by a judge and are rarely given………..As far as describing the house, most U.S. courts make you beVERY DESCRIPTIVE right down to the landscaping, color of the house, special features,and where the house numbers are placed….Lets also recognize the fact that this occurred in Puerto Rico…….
 
HankT

HankT

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Feb 20, 2007
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Pace wrote:
As for fake law enforcement, I know what you mean. Someone in NYC a few years ago made the mistake of coming out with a badge and a radio and start asking me to get out of the car. He ended up on the ground with a knee in the back of his head - he had bought a "bounty hunter" badge on the internet and decided to play cop.
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:what:!!!

Did he pull you over? Did he have a gun? How did you initially know he was a fake?

Did he get arrested?
 
R

Robin47

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Joined
Jul 28, 2008
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Susanville, California, USA
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I agree with Mudcamper, they not only should be illigal, but by the Constitution they are illegal.

Its Interesting these "Law Inforcement" with their military getups on don't remember

the oath they took to the Constitution.

I just seen on the youtube a good cop in NY, who told of how their "Quotas" on arrest and tickets must be applyed or they could lose their jobs. Thats a lot of pressue on the LEO's. What they should do is stick together and get that "Commander" fired, or the ones causeing that kind of pressue on the Cops. What are they going to do fire 30-40 cops ? They need to clean up their own first and get rid of the snakes.

He came out and said, I joined to help people and protect them, not Harass citizens.

Its getting more hard to know and tell if a cop is being legitimate in what hes doing or if hes looking for a confrontation just so he can arrest you !

I have met both ! Sheriff Mack has also said this, and is a good cop.

Robin47 ;)
 
P

Pace

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Eh? Since when does the US Constitution not apply to... ummm... Puerto Rico?

greg36ff wrote:

No knock warrants must be approved by a judge and are rarely given………..As far as describing the house, most U.S. courts make you beVERY DESCRIPTIVE right down to the landscaping, color of the house, special features,and where the house numbers are placed….Lets also recognize the fact that this occurred in Puerto Rico…….
Click to expand...
 
G

greg36ff

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Pace wrote:
Eh? Since when does the US Constitution not apply to... ummm... Puerto Rico?

greg36ff wrote:

No knock warrants must be approved by a judge and are rarely given………..As far as describing the house, most U.S. courts make you beVERY DESCRIPTIVE right down to the landscaping, color of the house, special features,and where the house numbers are placed….Lets also recognize the fact that this occurred in Puerto Rico…….
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


To be honest, I am not sure exactly how the Constitution and U.S. laws apply to Puerto Rico.......But that was not my point. This may have been a no knock warrant, I don't know.

My point is that things are done differently there. Very differently. If you were going to get arrested, where would you rather be arrested, In the USA or in Puerto Rico. Where do you think that your rights matter more?
 
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