• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Florida Permit Requirements, Remove The Right To Bear Arms!

Mr Patriot

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
6
Location
, ,
imported post

If you can pass a background check, and attend a course in firearms safety, and can hit a target!

It isn't much of a RIGHT, if you have to get permission to exercise it!

I think Florida's permit requirement is blatant defiance of the Constitution. I would really like to get a lawsuit going against it!

If you cannot afford to pay for a concealed weapons permit, it is illegal for you to carry a gun, and protect your life!
 

brboyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
412
Location
Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
imported post

Mr Patriot wrote:
If you can pass a background check, and attend a course in firearms safety, and can hit a target!

It isn't much of a RIGHT, if you have to get permission to exercise it!

I think Florida's permit requirement is blatant defiance of the Constitution. I would really like to get a lawsuit going against it!

If you cannot afford to pay for a concealed weapons permit, it is illegal for you to carry a gun, and protect your life!

Lets break this down item by item:



If you can pass a background check, and attend a course in firearms safety, and can hit a target

You do not have to hit a target, simply show proficiency with a firearm.

I think Florida's permit requirement is blatant defiance of the Constitution

It's not a permit, it's a license. The Florida Constitution states that the manner of carry may be regulated by law. The US Constitution's second amendment has not yet been incorporated via the 14th to the states yet.

I would really like to get a lawsuit going against it!

You need to have standing first. So go out without having a CWFL and get arrested; get convicted; lose; appeal to DCA; lose; appeal to Florida Supreme Court; lose; appeal to US supreme court; win. Simple enough.

If you cannot afford to pay for a concealed weapons permit, itis illegal for you to carry a gun, and protect your life!
No it's only illegal to carry a gun in violation of the laws authorized by the Florida and US Constitutions.Plus you do not need a gun to protect yourself.
 
M

McX

Guest
imported post

i'm going to mouth off radically on this topic; i'm getting my penn. permit to carry non-res. but it's no good in fla. it kinda insults me that i won't get reciprocity. then i hear about all the non-res. fla. is selling, and i get the feeling of revenue-ing. yeah, i know about the fla. requirements, but dang, what the hell else.....ya know?
 

brboyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
412
Location
Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
imported post

McX wrote:
i'm going to mouth off radically on this topic; i'm getting my penn. permit to carry non-res. but it's no good in fla. it kinda insults me that i won't get reciprocity. then i hear about all the non-res. fla. is selling, and i get the feeling of revenue-ing. yeah, i know about the fla. requirements, but dang, what the hell else.....ya know?

Yeah, it really sucks living in State 'A', gettinga permitfrom State 'B' that State 'C' won't honor.....
 

smttysmth02gt

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
230
Location
Eight Mile, , USA
imported post

brboyer wrote:


Lets break this down item by item:

You do not have to hit a target, simply show proficiency with a firearm.

It's not a permit, it's a license. The Florida Constitution states that the manner of carry may be regulated by law. The US Constitution's second amendment has not yet been incorporated via the 14th to the states yet.

You need to have standing first. So go out without having a CWFL and get arrested; get convicted; lose; appeal to DCA; lose; appeal to Florida Supreme Court; lose; appeal to US supreme court; win. Simple enough.

No it's only illegal to carry a gun in violation of the laws authorized by the Florida and US Constitutions.Plus you do not need a gun to protect yourself.
Weak.

Either way you have to "prove" yourself prior to being "afforded" 2nd amendment rights.

I've never heard anyone argue that one does not have the right to own and carry arms due to the 14th amendment. Strange.

Permit: a written order granting special permission to do something.

License: formal permission from a governmental or other constituted authority to do something, as to carry on some business or profession.

Same thing. Permission slip.

Correct on the crappy court system.

Nice to know that you can tell the future and decide what weaponry will be needed in the event of an attack. You should give lessons on that power of yours. I'd love to have first hand knowledge of an impending attack on myself and/or my family.
 

brboyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
412
Location
Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
imported post

smttysmth02gt wrote:
brboyer wrote:


Lets break this down item by item:

You do not have to hit a target, simply show proficiency with a firearm.

It's not a permit, it's a license. The Florida Constitution states that the manner of carry may be regulated by law. The US Constitution's second amendment has not yet been incorporated via the 14th to the states yet.

You need to have standing first. So go out without having a CWFL and get arrested; get convicted; lose; appeal to DCA; lose; appeal to Florida Supreme Court; lose; appeal to US supreme court; win. Simple enough.

No it's only illegal to carry a gun in violation of the laws authorized by the Florida and US Constitutions.Plus you do not need a gun to protect yourself.
Weak.

Either way you have to "prove" yourself prior to being "afforded" 2nd amendment rights.

I've never heard anyone argue that one does not have the right to own and carry arms due to the 14th amendment. Strange.

Permit: a written order granting special permission to do something.

License: formal permission from a governmental or other constituted authority to do something, as to carry on some business or profession.

Same thing. Permission slip.

Correct on the crappy court system.

Nice to know that you can tell the future and decide what weaponry will be needed in the event of an attack. You should give lessons on that power of yours. I'd love to have first hand knowledge of an impending attack on myself and/or my family.


You obviously don't believe that it's wise to be precise with dealing with legalities.

Also you have an obvious lank of understanding regarding Constitutional law.

Here's a hint:

The incorporation of the Bill of Rights (or incorporation for short) is the process by which American courts have applied portions of the US Bill of Rightsto thestates. In the past the Bill of Rights was held only to apply to the federal government. Under the incorporation doctrine certain provisions of the Bill of Rights now also apply to the states, by virtue of the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution.
 

smttysmth02gt

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
230
Location
Eight Mile, , USA
imported post

brboyer wrote:
You obviously don't believe that it's wise to be precise with dealing with legalities.

Also you have an obvious lank of understanding regarding Constitutional law.

Here's a hint:

The incorporation of the Bill of Rights (or incorporation for short) is the process by which American courts have applied portions of the US Bill of Rightsto thestates. In the past the Bill of Rights was held only to apply to the federal government. Under the incorporation doctrine certain provisions of the Bill of Rights now also apply to the states, by virtue of the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution.
So by your "obvious" amount of understanding of the constitution, any state can regulate and restrict any of the bill of rights then? If this is so, then how can the federal government do anything at all, since there is no physical boundary in regards to state vs federal?
 

OC4me

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
750
Location
Northwest Kent County, Michigan
imported post

Wait until the McDonald decision is handed down in June.

To get 'standing' to sue over the license requirement (without actually getting arrested), one merely has to send in a completed concealed weapons application package without payment. When you get a denial back due to lack of the fee being included...you then have legal standing to sue and challenge the licensing requirement (at least the imposition of the fee itself being an unconstitutional infringement of your right to bear arms).

This is the far better way to get the requisite legal'standing' to challenge the law.

Dick Heller was successuful in getting standing to sue the District of Columbia in this way. He applied and was denied...thus giving him standing. No need to get arrested first!
 

smttysmth02gt

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
230
Location
Eight Mile, , USA
imported post

OC4me wrote:
Wait until the McDonald decision is handed down in June.

To get 'standing' to sue over the license requirement (without actually getting arrested), one merely has to send in a completed concealed weapons application package without payment. When you get a denial back due to lack of the fee being included...you then have legal standing to sue and challenge the licensing requirement (at least the imposition of the fee itself being an unconstitutional infringement of your right to bear arms).

This is the far better way to get the requisite legal'standing' to challenge the law.


Dick Heller was successuful in getting standing to sue the District of Columbia in this way. He applied and was denied...thus giving him standing.
Has anyone ever done this?
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

smttysmth02gt wrote:
OC4me wrote:
Wait until the McDonald decision is handed down in June.

To get 'standing' to sue over the license requirement (without actually getting arrested), one merely has to send in a completed concealed weapons application package without payment. When you get a denial back due to lack of the fee being included...you then have legal standing to sue and challenge the licensing requirement (at least the imposition of the fee itself being an unconstitutional infringement of your right to bear arms).

This is the far better way to get the requisite legal'standing' to challenge the law.


Dick Heller was successuful in getting standing to sue the District of Columbia in this way. He applied and was denied...thus giving him standing.
Has anyone ever done this?

Presume you mean, Has anyone ever done this in Florida?

Yata hey
 

smttysmth02gt

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
230
Location
Eight Mile, , USA
imported post

Grapeshot wrote:
smttysmth02gt wrote:
OC4me wrote:
Wait until the McDonald decision is handed down in June.

To get 'standing' to sue over the license requirement (without actually getting arrested), one merely has to send in a completed concealed weapons application package without payment. When you get a denial back due to lack of the fee being included...you then have legal standing to sue and challenge the licensing requirement (at least the imposition of the fee itself being an unconstitutional infringement of your right to bear arms).

This is the far better way to get the requisite legal'standing' to challenge the law.


Dick Heller was successuful in getting standing to sue the District of Columbia in this way. He applied and was denied...thus giving him standing.
Has anyone ever done this?

Presume you mean, Has anyone ever done this in Florida?

Yata hey
Not necessarily. I do not live in FL.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

smttysmth02gt wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
smttysmth02gt wrote:
OC4me wrote:
Wait until the McDonald decision is handed down in June.

To get 'standing' to sue over the license requirement (without actually getting arrested), one merely has to send in a completed concealed weapons application package without payment. When you get a denial back due to lack of the fee being included...you then have legal standing to sue and challenge the licensing requirement (at least the imposition of the fee itself being an unconstitutional infringement of your right to bear arms).

This is the far better way to get the requisite legal'standing' to challenge the law.

Dick Heller was successuful in getting standing to sue the District of Columbia in this way. He applied and was denied...thus giving him standing.
Has anyone ever done this?
Presume you mean, Has anyone ever done this in Florida?

Yata hey
Not necessarily. I do not live in FL.
Well to point out the obvious then, your question was asked following the best example there is - Dick Heller. :?

Yata hey
 

brboyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
412
Location
Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
imported post

smttysmth02gt wrote:
brboyer wrote:
You obviously don't believe that it's wise to be precise with dealing with legalities.

Also you have an obvious lank of understanding regarding Constitutional law.

Here's a hint:

The incorporation of the Bill of Rights (or incorporation for short) is the process by which American courts have applied portions of the US Bill of Rightsto thestates. In the past the Bill of Rights was held only to apply to the federal government. Under the incorporation doctrine certain provisions of the Bill of Rights now also apply to the states, by virtue of the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution.
So by your "obvious" amount of understanding of the constitution, any state can regulate and restrict any of the bill of rights then? If this is so, then how can the federal government do anything at all, since there is no physical boundary in regards to state vs federal?
For those rights not yet incorporated, yes.
 

brboyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
412
Location
Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
imported post

OC4me wrote:
Wait until the McDonald decision is handed down in June.

To get 'standing' to sue over the license requirement (without actually getting arrested), one merely has to send in a completed concealed weapons application package without payment. When you get a denial back due to lack of the fee being included...you then have legal standing to sue and challenge the licensing requirement (at least the imposition of the fee itself being an unconstitutional infringement of your right to bear arms).

This is the far better way to get the requisite legal'standing' to challenge the law.

Dick Heller was successuful in getting standing to sue the District of Columbia in this way. He applied and was denied...thus giving him standing. No need to get arrested first!
That would only give you standing to challenge the fee, not the licensing requirement itself, nor 790.01.
 

Mr Patriot

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
6
Location
, ,
imported post

The Right To Bear Arms Shal NotBe Infringed, meaning requiringa permit is not Consitutional.

Without a permit, you cannot legally carry a gun and protect your life.

I don't care what ever is said, it is really not legal to require a permit to exercise a Right!



We should really go after the Ill FOIDcard as well! When I goto IllIhave to get my dadwho is an Ill resident to buy the ammo for me! I am 42, andUS military Veteran!

Folks, we need to be after our rights!
 

brboyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
412
Location
Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
imported post

Mr Patriot wrote:
The Right To Bear Arms Shal NotBe Infringed, meaning requiringa permit is not Consitutional.

Without a permit, you cannot legally carry a gun and protect your life.

I don't care what ever is said, it is really not legal to require a permit to exercise a Right!



We should really go after the Ill FOIDcard as well! When I goto IllIhave to get my dadwho is an Ill resident to buy the ammo for me! I am 42, andUS military Veteran!

Folks, we need to be after our rights!
You should really read my reply. It outlines all the the legalities involved.
 

Slidell Jim

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
177
Location
Slidell, La
imported post

Grapeshot wrote:
smttysmth02gt wrote:
OC4me wrote:
Wait until the McDonald decision is handed down in June.

To get 'standing' to sue over the license requirement (without actually getting arrested), one merely has to send in a completed concealed weapons application package without payment. When you get a denial back due to lack of the fee being included...you then have legal standing to sue and challenge the licensing requirement (at least the imposition of the fee itself being an unconstitutional infringement of your right to bear arms).

This is the far better way to get the requisite legal'standing' to challenge the law.


Dick Heller was successuful in getting standing to sue the District of Columbia in this way. He applied and was denied...thus giving him standing.
Has anyone ever done this?

Presume you mean, Has anyone ever done this in Florida?

Yata hey
Someone did this in Louisiana, and is suing. In La it had to do with more fees depending on your age and years of resident in the state.

When you get a denial back due to lack of the fee being included...you then have legal standing to sue and challenge the licensing requirement (at least the imposition of the fee itself being an unconstitutional infringement of your right to bear arms).
 

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
892
Location
Michigan, USA
imported post

brboyer wrote:
Lets break this down item by item:





It's not a permit, it's a license. The Florida Constitution states that the manner of carry may be regulated by law. The US Constitution's second amendment has not yet been incorporated via the 14th to the states yet.

If you cannot afford to pay for a concealed weapons permit, itis illegal for you to carry a gun, and protect your life!
No it's only illegal to carry a gun in violation of the laws authorized by the Florida and US Constitutions.Plus you do not need a gun to protect yourself.



First off, the license does exclude people. If you reside outside of the United States or if you are a non-immigrant, you are excluded from excercising this right; however, such people still enjoy jury trials, free speech etc. Also, some people may be eligible to purchase a firearm but not eligible for a CWFL, that is unconstitutional as well.

If a right is licensed, then you have a right to the license. The license does more than just screen out prohibited possessors, it goes too far.

You don't need a gun or a concealed weapon to protect yourself, just as you don't need to exercise free speech on the internet, because you can use the newspaper, verbal communication.

The cost of the license is a problem, if you had a free speech license, how much would you charge for it????

People love to point to parade permits, they are inexpensive and they are also needed because the cause for public roads to be blocked off; by carrying an arm, you are not hindering anyone else as one would be by having a public road blocked off due to a parade.
 
Top