FFL, Question, Time, What to expect? How to get one.

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I would like to open this Topic by saying that there are a lot of Question on Getting a FFL. If you know of how the process works let us know. How long it takes, what will stop you from getting a FFL. Any and All Question and response are welcome. Thanks to all.

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It's easy, relatively. I applied for an FFL C&R, one to see how easy it was, and two so I can engage in collecting some relics I'm interested in without going through FFL dealers. The license fee, which is relatively cheap, will pay for it self quickly if you actually use your license.

I sent my application in mid to late September of 2009 and received my packet in early to mid November.

I received my forms from the ATF website for free along with some other materials including finger print cards. All for free. http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/

I read through all of the forms and instructions carefully. Filling out the forms is a lot like the ones you do for buying firearms except a little more information and there are two copies for C&R licenses (one for the local ranking LEO such as the Sheriff and another copy for the ATF). It's simple. I also asked for an FFL Dealer form but I have yet to pursue that and likely will not (you really need to be in the business of dealing firearms for that one to be legit). This is also a much thicker packet to fill out and the license cost more, $300 I think.

I got finger printed by my local PD, $10 for me. I sent the filled out local LEO form to the Sheriff, you don't have to do or wait for anything after that. Just send it in. If they wish to respond to you, fine, but the ATF requires nothing more than you just sending it to who ever the ranking LEO is (Chief or Sheriff) in your jurisdiction. This covers the ATF requirement that you inform your local LEA that you are acquiring said license.

I sent both finger print cards and the ATF form in with my payment. My payment clear just a few days after mailing the forms to the ATF, so I knew they at least got it and was sure they were processing it.

After several weaks, I had my packet which included a book of laws/regulations, a book of all the listed C&R weapons (there are many weapons that are not covered in this book, it is just a good guide on many of them) a CD with some information and various other things along with my official license, effective immediately.

Very easy, at least for the C&R. I would think that a dealer's license may take a little bit longer but regardless, no one needs to pay anyone to do the paper work. The only things you should be paying for are you finger prints, the licensing fee(s), and the cost of postage.

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I have thought of doing this myself, but haven't talked myself into it yet. Plus money for an FFL or even new guns is a lttle scarce at the moment. BUT I am glad to read that it is a painless and relatively easy process.

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I would be careful here, the ATF requires you to have a place of business open that they can check records that is a PLACE OF BUSINESS. If you put your house and they come and check on you and you are unable to give them records (ie, you are gone) you run the risk of not only losing your license but being charged with a felony.

This is a very, very specific thing that I'd look into.

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I think the OP needs to clarify what he means when he says FFL. There are several different types. An 01 FFL is for "engaging in the business of buying and selling firearms." An 03 FFL is for "collecting" certain qualified firearms and not "engaging in the business."
There are also licenses for manufacturing firearms and for working as a gunsmith.

More information needed.
The ATF website provides information about all types.

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Pace wrote:

I would be careful here, the ATF requires you to have a place of business open that they can check records that is a PLACE OF BUSINESS. If you put your house and they come and check on you and you are unable to give them records (ie, you are gone) you run the risk of not only losing your license but being charged with a felony.

This is a very, very specific thing that I'd look into.

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This is correct, in general, if you're talking about an FFL license other than a C&R license. I won't try to quote anything so I don't run the risk of giving misinformation but they discuss this, but as mentioned, the only reason to get non-C&R licenses is FOR CONDUCTING THE BUSINESS. Don't get one just so you can have guns shipped to your house, which would still be legal in States that allow this, but if you're not engaged in the business, expect a visit from the ATF and local law enforcement.

flintlock tom wrote:

I think the OP needs to clarify what he means when he says FFL. There are several different types. An 01 FFL is for "engaging in the business of buying and selling firearms." An 03 FFL is for "collecting" certain qualified firearms and not "engaging in the business."
There are also licenses for manufacturing firearms and for working as a gunsmith.

More information needed.
The ATF website provides information about all types.

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Exactly.

The point I want to make is that you don't need those businesses you see online that charge you to do the paperwork. Just get the stuff yourself read it and fill it out, follow the instructions and you'll be alright.

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Pace wrote:

I would be careful here, the ATF requires you to have a place of business open that they can check records that is a PLACE OF BUSINESS. If you put your house and they come and check on you and you are unable to give them records (ie, you are gone) you run the risk of not only losing your license but being charged with a felony.

This is a very, very specific thing that I'd look into.

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A ComplianceInspector may stop in during your posted business hours. You will not find a section of code which requires you to be open for "X" hours each day. You will not find a section of code which requires you to be open 7 days a week. You will find many FFLs with store fronts who are not open on Sundays and Mondays.

Please provide the applicable code which puts you in peril of a felony for no one being home if an inspector stops by un-anounced and you are not home.

27 CFR 478.23 - Right of entry and examination.
(b) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during business hours the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, ammunition and firearms referred to in paragraph (a) of this section: (1) In the course of a reasonable inquiry during the course of a criminal investigation of a person or persons other than the licensee, (2) For insuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part: (i) Not more than once during any 12-month period, or (ii) At any time with respect to records relating to a firearm involved in a criminal investigation that is traced to the licensee, or (3) When such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation.

Click to expand...

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GunFire wrote:

I would like to open this Topic by saying that there are a lot of Question on Getting a FFL. If you know of how the process works let us know. How long it takes, what will stop you from getting a FFL. Any and All Question and response are welcome. Thanks to all.

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http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html

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I didnt say you have to have a storefront, I said you need to have a PLACE OF BUSINESS. For example, there are people who have done this, work 9-5 jobs, the ATF has stopped by three days in a row to their house and they've gotten in trouble.

I would recommend NEVER to have in your home, because you are giving permission for the ATF to enter your home without a warrant.

Interceptor_Knight wrote:

Pace wrote:

I would be careful here, the ATF requires you to have a place of business open that they can check records that is a PLACE OF BUSINESS. If you put your house and they come and check on you and you are unable to give them records (ie, you are gone) you run the risk of not only losing your license but being charged with a felony.

This is a very, very specific thing that I'd look into.

Click to expand...

A ComplianceInspector may stop in during your posted business hours. You will not find a section of code which requires you to be open for "X" hours each day. You will not find a section of code which requires you to be open 7 days a week. You will find many FFLs with store fronts who are not open on Sundays and Mondays.

Please provide the applicable code which puts you in peril of a felony for no one being home if an inspector stops by un-anounced and you are not home.

27 CFR 478.23 - Right of entry and examination.
(b) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during business hours the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, ammunition and firearms referred to in paragraph (a) of this section: (1) In the course of a reasonable inquiry during the course of a criminal investigation of a person or persons other than the licensee, (2) For insuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part: (i) Not more than once during any 12-month period, or (ii) At any time with respect to records relating to a firearm involved in a criminal investigation that is traced to the licensee, or (3) When such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

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Thanks to all the have replied I am interested in a class (type) 07 License.
The ATF does not tell you what hours you have to be open so if you put in
( by appointment only ) then the ATF would have to call first.
They may not like that but It is worth a try. Also you can be open on Saturday and Sunday Say 10 am till noon so that you at least have some store hours.
Just a thought. And of course if you sell a Firearm you must keep records.
From what I have seen so far the hardest part of the from is that it asks what type of Zone you are in, If you are in a Residential zone you need to ask the Zoning Board for permission.

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Get a professional office suite, make some extra dough

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I have a rent on hold, by that I mean I cannot rent it until I get the ATF to come and inspect. I have been waiting for 3 month now. The owner of the rental says he cannot hold it any longer. So far the ATF has only told us that the application is in the process, I fear that I will loose the rental before the ATF show's up. I cant rent it with out the License. catch 22

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I have been lurking here for about 3 years and this may be a good subject for my first post. I had a FFL from about 1980 to 2004.

I sold out of my home and my hours of operation were from 7:00 PM to9:00 PMMonday thru Friday. I never sold a lot of guns, Mainly just to family, friends and neighbors, etc, people known to me.

In addition to the paper work to apply, they will want you to have a way to secure the guns after you get the licence. This will usually require a safe. Check to see whats the minimum requirement now.

The Pros:

1. You get to buy wholesale.

2. You get a chance to buy closeouts at excellent prices. These can be a real money maker or great investment.

3. Some non-firearm dealers will give you discounts.

The Cons.

1. If your home is your business locationand you sell a firearm that kills a prominent person, ATF could come in your house in the middle of the night.

2. Selling out of your home is going to increase the possibility of your home being broken into.

3. If you live in the city, zoning laws could present problems to licence approval. Thats what did me in. It just took them awhile.

4. If you rent a storefront think what the rent, utilities, etc. will cost and how much you will need to sell each month just to break even. Overhead kills a lot of small businesses.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

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Good information, KLH

Earlier this evening, I found out (second hand) a person in the local area obtained an FFL license to manufacture weapons and they make turkey-shoot shotguns made from some imported Italian barrels and various other quality parts. He doesn't do a lot of business but enough to keep his license paid for and any taxes due, I believe it is a person that does it as a hobby they can make some cash off of. So obviously there are people out there that do this stuff on a small scale and is not unheard of.