Michigan 6-Year-Old Suspended From School for Making Gun With Hand

imported post

A funny world we live in ...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,588183,00.html?test=latestnews

imported post

As I commented to my sometimes correspondent, John Lott, author of More Guns, Less Crime;

imported post

We need to start zero-tolerating stupidity.When I was a kid, "stop that and sit down" would have been sufficient, and it ought to be so now. This is an overreaction comparable to calling out the fire department to put out the candles on a kid's birthday cake. A huge waste of time and resources that coulod have been handled with five simple words from a teacher. Instead, multiple people get involved - and so does their pay - and records have to be kept, etc. All because some innocent little boy does what boys do.

On the other hand, if he had been caught "playing doctor" it would probably have been OK... as long as it was with another boy....:banghead:

imported post

I agree that stupidity should be intolerable but that would discriminate even more hugely than culture-ism. The culture wars have started and there have been some shooting battles.

Ignorance can be cured but stupidity goes clean to the bone - so sweet. Does that not put the lie to "All men are created equal"?

imported post

Alexcabbie wrote:

We need to start zero-tolerating stupidity.When I was a kid, "stop that and sit down" would have been sufficient, and it ought to be so now. This is an overreaction comparable to calling out the fire department to put out the candles on a kid's birthday cake. A huge waste of time and resources that coulod have been handled with five simple words from a teacher. Instead, multiple people get involved - and so does their pay - and records have to be kept, etc. All because some innocent little boy does what boys do.

On the other hand, if he had been caught "playing doctor" it would probably have been OK... as long as it was with another boy....:banghead:

Click to expand...

and ...

Master Doug Huffman wrote:

As I commented to my sometimes correspondent, John Lott, author of More Guns, Less Crime;

Zero tolerance is politically correct code for thoughtlessness, perhaps hiding the lack of critical thinking capability.

How much new material is there in the Fourth Edition, enough to make replacing my First Edition worthwhile?
​

Click to expand...

Amen to both of you. Both PC and Zero Tolerance have long been out of hand ... :cuss:

imported post

Master Doug Huffman wrote:

I agree that stupidity should be intolerable but that would discriminate even more hugely than culture-ism. The culture wars have started and there have been some shooting battles.

Ignorance can be cured but stupidity goes clean to the bone - so sweet. Does that not put the lie to "All men are created equal"?

Click to expand...

A good point as that line "All men are created equal [by God]" is the premise that forms the foundation of "inalienable rights" and natural law" - there has always been a "class war" waged - even when the tribes were broken into "hunters" and "stick gatherers" - and the hierarchies have become infinitely more complex over the years ... in the coming years, it is Samuel Colt (or one of his contemporaries) who will again balance the equation. The test question will be simple: "Do you have something worthwhile to contribute to our group?". A "yes" answer will get you into the group for a trial run and a "no" will be met with, "sorry, keep walking". Sadly, about 75% of my contemporaries at the University will perish as they have nothing "real" to offer ... it will simply be a natural attrition cycle and the parasitic will be culled (yes, the elderly, disabled, and children fall into a different category and would be cared for where necessary). "Control" is gained by liberty stripping and fear ... ocer the last 100 or so years this has reached a tipping point in the US - many, many people have transcended fear at this point and realize that the "control" is no more than an illusion. "Open Carry" is just the beginning - eventually we will reach critical mass as a population and take back ALL of our "inalienable rights" and the house of card we call "social hierarchy" will collapse.

imported post

I am very pleased to make your acquaintance. Well met!

imported post

Master Doug Huffman wrote:

I am very pleased to make your acquaintance. Well met!

Click to expand...

And you as well

imported post

okay, seriously, what the :cuss: happened?!

when I was this kid's age (not too long ago now, I'll be turning 20 this month) we played cops and robbers -at school, no less- with squirt guns that ACTUALLY RESEMBLED GUNS! I can't count the number of times I brought a toy laser gun to school to show my friends.

and now THIS pile of :cuss:?!




:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Zero tolerance.

translation: Zero Intelligence!

imported post

He was just doing an impersonation of everyone's hero...

imported post

Picture of Barry Sotero e-mailed to info@ioniaschools.org

imported post

You guys tout critical thinking and all that, but it almost sounds like you guys are shooting at the hip with some of these responses. Take another read at the article:

"School officials also told the paper that Mason had been warned repeatedly against pretending to aim his hand at students but continued the behavior over several months."

Sounds to me that the school officials applied critical thinking by telling the child to stop many times and just got fed up with his continued disobedience. I wish the article would have mentioned more about the child's antics during class as it is very possible he could have just been a disruptive child, in which case, the suspension would have been warranted.

Lets try to apply some critical thinking in this group folks

imported post

As a teacher, it sounds to me as though the boy was suspended for defiance, not for making a gun with his fingers. The rule may be stupid. and enforcement may be silly. However, the fix is not ignoring the rule. The fix is removing the rule.

imported post

onlurker wrote:

You guys tout critical thinking and all that, but it almost sounds like you guys are shooting at the hip with some of these responses. Take another read at the article:

"School officials also told the paper that Mason had been warned repeatedly against pretending to aim his hand at students but continued the behavior over several months."

<snip>
Lets try to apply some critical thinking in this group folks

Click to expand...

oh, believe me, I am, and when I see some proof that this is the case, I will (however grudgingly) accept this portion of the schools argument. Just because the school says it's so, don't mean it's so.

example: a school in this region was caught altering test scores on the SAT (or whatever test it was) did they admit it? not at first, for a while they maintained that they hadn't altered a thing.

and even if they can prove that they did warn him it doesn't make the rule he's breaking any less pants-on-head stupid.

imported post

Theguy wrote:

and even if they can prove that they did warn him it doesn't make the rule he's breaking any less pants-on-head stupid.

Click to expand...

Of course, but it doesn't sound to me that they are bringing up the broken rule for reason of suspension, only that Fox News is making it a big deal and possibly to try to push their own sentiments on how they feel about guns in schools. The bottom line is neither sides can really say for certain who is in the right since we only have the information that was written and can only take it on face value. In either case, gun owner's own knee-jerk reactions to "zero tolerance" school policy is only bringing to light their own "zero tolerance" agenda and is not any better of a reaction to the schools had they suspended the kid the first time he made a pistol with his hand.

imported post

buster81 wrote:

He was just doing an impersonation of everyone's hero...

Click to expand...

LOL ... good find!

imported post

onlurker wrote:

You guys tout critical thinking and all that, but it almost sounds like you guys are shooting at the hip with some of these responses. Take another read at the article:

"School officials also told the paper that Mason had been warned repeatedly against pretending to aim his hand at students but continued the behavior over several months."

Sounds to me that the school officials applied critical thinking by telling the child to stop many times and just got fed up with his continued disobedience. I wish the article would have mentioned more about the child's antics during class as it is very possible he could have just been a disruptive child, in which case, the suspension would have been warranted.

Lets try to apply some critical thinking in this group folks

Click to expand...

Fox News was not the original source - the Michigan newspaper was the original source. The article also clearly states that his actions "made other students uncomfortable" which was the reason the school officials made a big deal about it - not that there was a "rule" against it (i am sure it is lumped into that catch-all category of "disruptive behavior") - this is simply another case where someone decided they would make up a rule to fit the situation and then enforce it. Ultimately, it is no different than one of us being harassed for open carry - it "makes other people uncomfortable" so they try to make rules or bully you into stopping the action - these are the true "knee-jerk reactions". If there is an underlying story here, the school should have given that information - because they chose not to, you can rest assured that they have nothing ... the best they could manage was saying that he had done it "multiple times over a period of months" ... so what? I would be more interested in finding out more about why he was doing it ... maybe it was his way of coping with bullying that the school chooses to ignore. They will use this poor child as a "cautionary tale" for other kids ... it is all about creating a climate of fear to achieve control, just as it is in society at large.

imported post

The rule may be as simple as, "Follow the instructions of your teacher." If a student refuses to follow the repeated instructions of a teacher, he is being defiant. I am sure he was not suspended for a single instance of defiance. No doubt a series of consequences were tried before resorting to suspension.

He wasn't suspended for making a gun with his fingers. He was suspended for defiance.

Again, if it is unreasonable for the teacher to ask him to stop, the teacher should be instructed to stop asking him not to make a finger-gun. If the teacher is operating within her autonomy, then the student should be punished if he defies her.

imported post

eye95 wrote:

As a teacher,

Click to expand...

Good for you.

imported post

Hogwash. You can't fail a kid, but you can suspend him for a gun finger. Maybe it wasn't a gun finger, maybe it was a hair dryer finger, or a drill finger, or a finger finger. Stupid.