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Thread: Rack the slide?

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    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    So I haven't quite got out there yet. Did have a question though on logistics of OC. Obviously, we must keep the gun in the trunk, not loaded. After the car is parked, trunk is opened, and gun/magazine retrieved and inserted, do you rack the slide?


    I'm just imagining pulling up to a starbucks or some business , in a busy parking lot, and just would not feel right racking a slide right there before going inside.

    I of course prefer a loaded/ready to go, but how do you guys do it?

    Uber stealth inside of a bag in the trunk or something? (muffled)

    Then there's the people around me seeing me put the gun into my holster. hrrrm. Do you park at the end of the parking lots, kind of isolated?

    The starbucks reference was tongue in cheek, but definitely interested in the how-to questions.



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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    xenophon wrote:
    So I haven't quite got out there yet. Did have a question though on logistics of OC. Obviously, we must keep the gun in the trunk, not loaded. After the car is parked, trunk is opened, and gun/magazine retrieved and inserted, do you rack the slide?


    I'm just imagining pulling up to a starbucks or some business , in a busy parking lot, and just would not feel right racking a slide right there before going inside.

    I of course prefer a loaded/ready to go, but how do you guys do it?

    Uber stealth inside of a bag in the trunk or something? (muffled)[NO This would be concealed]

    Then there's the people around me seeing me put the gun into my holster. hrrrm. Do you park at the end of the parking lots, kind of isolated?[Yes, fewer people gives me more time to react should someone come at me.]

    The starbucks reference was tongue in cheek, but definitely interested in the how-to questions.

    I carry condition three (empty chamber), many here carry with one in.

    When you leave the home, insert the pistol in the case with the slide open/back. That way, when you get to the store:

    1. Retrieve the case completely removed from vehicle.
    2. Open case, retrieve firearm and mag.
    3. Insert mag, release slide.
    4. Holster.

    You need to be aware that repeated chambering of the same round can push the bullet further into the case (dangerous).

    A condition 3 carry in loaded mag in, empty chamber. I only rack the slide when/if I draw. Am I giving up a second or two? Yes but that is a choice I have already decide I can live (or not) with.

    All opinions are mine alone and should not be considered legal advice.

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    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    You need to be aware that repeated chambering of the same round can push the bullet further into the case (dangerous). *SNIP SNIP*
    Definitely a concern of mine there. I'd hate driving around town to diff places, getting out, and constantly banging on that one round or others in the mag.

    This trunk stuff sucks and needs to change.

    ETA: It's as if the law is causing un-necessary handling by making me jump through hoops to do this.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Yep, that's why I do the condition 3 carry. It takes only 2 seconds.

    1. Retrieve case
    2. Open case
    3. Retrieve firearm.
    4. Holster firearm.
    5. Insert Mag.
    6. Return case to vehicle.

    Reverse when returning:

    1. Retrieve case.
    2. Unholster.
    3. Drop mag in case.
    4. Place firearm in case.
    5. Close case, place in vehicle.

    As I said, only takes two seconds. Do I like it, heck no but we follow the law.

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    i carry with the chamber empty. takes less time for the in/out car procedure, and personally i believe that if i something where to happen that i don't have time to rack it, then i may possibly not even have time to unholster. it's not like it takes that long.

    where in the milwaukee area are you. I'm trying to get to know people in my area to make new friends, and hang out sometime. i've already met a couple people that aren't to far from me, and now with summer just around the corner, perhaps we could get together some time for some friendly BBQ or other activities.

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    I carry condition 1.

    My carry weapon is a stainless steel 1911, full sized government model.

    A) In preparation for entering the vehicle for the first time of the day, I drop the mag, rack the slide, ejecting the round chambered. I place all into the gun case and close it. Put it out of reach and away I go.

    B) On leaving the vehicle, I open the case, feed the mag into the mag well seating it firmly. I rack the slide, engage the thumb safety and drop the mag, put the last round ejected back into the mag so I have a full mag feed the mag back into the mag well and one round chambered. Place firearm in my holster, engage the thumb break and good to go.

    I repeat step (A) when re-entering my vehicle.

    I have done this in a crowded parking lot, on city streets, and with mom's and children watching, noses pressed against the car window. It - is - legal! No one has ever commented, ran away screaming or called the police, that I know of.

    I don't think it is a good idea to make it any more difficult to obey the law then necessary. The boobs in Madison made this bed, no make them lie in it. Their good at lying anyway. This is precisely why this stupid law needs to be changed.




    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    I carry loaded mag - empty chamber..because It's a lot less BS , getting in the car, getting out, loading, unloading, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah... & I will continue to do this, until the Vehicle carry restrictions are done away with. It might be legal to lock & load in the parking lot or where ever you are.....but, I attempt NOT to draw too much attention to myself when I OC & that LOUD CHINK sound the weapon makes as you send the slide home...raises unneeded eye brows & attention...next thing you know...the cops are screwing with you, because some person in the parking lot seen it, or heard it & called 911....I hate headaches. I am really fast at chambering a round.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    bnhcomputing wrote: [/b]
    Yep, that's why I do the condition 3 carry. It takes only 2 seconds.
    [ ... ]
    As I said, only takes two seconds. Do I like it, heck no but we follow the law.
    The law does not address open carry condition.

    A gun unloaded is a poor paperweight and worse boat anchor.

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    I carry a wheelgun loaded from speedloaders which allows me a hot, fast, reliable carry.

    When I pull the trigger there is no question of whether its going to go bang or not...

  10. #10
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    Spartacus wrote:
    When I pull the trigger there is no question of whether its going to go bang or not...
    The same reason why I carry Glock!

    I have 4 and I'd trust any of them to do the job.

    My Ruger P95 has never failed to chamber a round, fire and eject in the dozen years or so that I've had it.

    I like revolvers too, and sometimes carry a GP100 or SP101, both have been 100% reliable. Can't say the same for my Super Redhawk, which isn't practical for defensive carry anyway.

    Revolver guys... ever try one-handed and/or weak-handed reloads with a revolver? Not very easy, is it? I'm willing to bet few here have even tried a one-handed reload of a semi-auto.

    Practice practice practice! In the middle of an attack or gun fight, with one arm or hand already out of action, is not the best time to learn that you can't reach your reload with your other hand.

    Not a good time to discover that your equipment doesn't hold up either:

    This past week at the combat shooting league we introduced the newer members to some gun retention techniques. One man had his holster (the ever-popular Blackhawk Serpa) torn off his belt. Another had his gun plucked out of his Serpa (a front grab, no less) and turned on him in the blink of an eye by a 27-year old, barely 100 pounds, female who also happens to be a student of Krav Maga. (Before you ask, we use plastic "blue" guns for this sort of practice.)

    Moral of the story: Don't think that your life depends only upon your selection of a gun and ammo. Your belt, holster, and other accessories are just as important.



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    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    Shotgun wrote:
    Moral of the story: Don't think that your life depends only upon your selection of a gun and ammo. Your belt, holster, and other accessories are just as important.
    +1
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

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    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    scorpio_vette wrote:
    i carry with the chamber empty. takes less time for the in/out car procedure, and personally i believe that if i something where to happen that i don't have time to rack it, then i may possibly not even have time to unholster. it's not like it takes that long.

    where in the milwaukee area are you. I'm trying to get to know people in my area to make new friends, and hang out sometime. i've already met a couple people that aren't to far from me, and now with summer just around the corner, perhaps we could get together some time for some friendly BBQ or other activities.
    I'm used to carrying a glock around the house. I like the simplicity of pulling trigger = bang. I've also trained and got set on condition 1 around the house, I don't practice racking the slide if I were to draw.

    If I were to carry about in town, it'd be a mindset change if I had to remember to rack upon drawing.

    I'm up in far NW Milwaukee, by Meno Falls. I got a few buddies in Cudahy too. I'm going to be a dad in t-minus 4 weeks, so we'll see how the summer activities go. But I'm definitely down for hanging out.


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    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    bnhcomputing wrote:
    Yep, that's why I do the condition 3 carry. It takes only 2 seconds.
    [ ...]
    As I said, only takes two seconds. Do I like it, heck no but we follow the law.
    The law does not address open carry condition.

    A gun unloaded is a poor paperweight and worse boat anchor.
    I agree with that, but again, the concern was dropping the slide on the same cartridge over and over again as time goes by. Sure, rotate them around and all that, but it's a decision I gotta weigh here.

    Is your decision more for making a political statement for a cause or self defense or some of both? I think that might play a role in which way is used.

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    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    Shotgun wrote:
    Not a good time to discover that your equipment doesn't hold up either:

    This past week at the combat shooting league we introduced the newer members to some gun retention techniques. One man had his holster (the ever-popular Blackhawk Serpa) torn off his belt. Another had his gun plucked out of his Serpa (a front grab, no less) and turned on him in the blink of an eye by a 27-year old, barely 100 pounds, female who also happens to be a student of Krav Maga. (Before you ask, we use plastic "blue" guns for this sort of practice.)

    Moral of the story: Don't think that your life depends only upon your selection of a gun and ammo. Your belt, holster, and other accessories are just as important.


    I think I need to upgrade my measely Fobus OOB holster. I think I need some more retention. I have a good thick "wilderness" belt though

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    xenophon wrote:
    Is your decision more for making a political statement for a cause or self defense or some of both? I think that might play a role in which way is used.
    Mine? I carried CCW for about ten years in SC, a DA/SA in Condition Two, one chambered, hammer down on the bar, in FIRE not safe.

    The only way it could be a political statement is if I went to show-and-tell. Joe Snit, the ragpicker will never know until it's too late.

    If one can't trust oneself to manipulate a simple piece of machinery like a gun to some standard of flawlessly then of what value is so called training. Stupid is as stupid does.

    As far as setback, a good digital caliper has an adjustable less-than indication, run your carry rounds through it once in a while. Chuck the ones setback too far.

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    xenophon wrote:
    I think I need to upgrade my measely Fobus OOB holster. I think I need some more retention. I have a good thick "wilderness" belt though
    Nothing opened my eyes and made me reevaluate my gear more than gun retention practice. There are plenty of holsters that are tough enough to stand up to the wear and tear of carrying a gun and repeated draws, but they aren't sufficient to withstand a determined struggle. And at our practice we normally go at about half speed to reduce injuries.

    For concealed carry, a primary defense against a grab is the concealment itself. Nobody ought to know you're carrying until the moment the gun is drawn.

    But open carry negates that defense, so your primary defense is awareness. But anyone can be distracted or taken by surprise at some point. So secondary defenses of good OC equipment and technique are essential also.

    Like pretty much everyone I have the Fobus, Uncle Mikes, Blackhawk Serpa, and Sidearmor holsters.... drawers of them. I use them on the range or for concealed carry, but for open carry it would be when I had no other holster for a particular gun.
    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    As far as setback, a good digital caliper has an adjustable less-than indication, run your carry rounds through it once in a while. Chuck the ones setback too far.
    Not a bad idea.

    I don't know how many times a round can get chambered before the bullet is set too far into the case because my ammo never lasts that long. So I recommend my solution-- shoot more often. You'll have fresh ammo and added practice.

    Usually I shoot target ammo, but every few practice sessions I run the "good stuff" through the gun too so I can load up with fresh new ammo.


    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    xenophon wrote:
    Is your decision more for making a political statement for a cause or self defense or some of both? I think that might play a role in which way is used.
    Mine? I carried CCW for about ten years in SC, a DA/SA in Condition Two, one chambered, hammer down on the bar, in FIRE not safe.

    The only way it could be a political statement is if I went to show-and-tell. Joe Snit, the ragpicker will never know until it's too late.

    If one can't trust oneself to manipulate a simple piece of machinery like a gun to some standard of flawlessly then of what value is so called training. Stupid is as stupid does.

    As far as setback, a good digital caliper has an adjustable less-than indication, run your carry rounds through it once in a while. Chuck the ones setback too far.
    I agree. Carrying a gun is not like carrying a flashlight or a cellphone.

    A lot of responsibility goes along with it. I have had training in the early years, and continue to train on my own. I practice draw, reload, impaired reload, jammed rounds, and marksmanship as well as IDPA - real world style practice, year round. I practice firing on the move, choosing cover or concealment and knowing the diff. etc. Much, much more.

    My wife and I have trained together for the advent of a visit from bad guys. In two instances, I have heard the racking of a slide behind me and felt all warm and fuzzy. Good to know she has my 6. We have trained together for many different scenarios such as house clearing etc.

    The most important accessory you have lies between your ears. Training isn't limited to the physical either. I and my wife have always thought through our moves very carefully for that day. Just like seeing the basketball go through the hoop in your mind before that big game, see yourself doing all the right things in your mind first and it will translate to the real world when you need it most.


    "The two most important rules in a gunfight are: always cheat and always win." Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch.

    "If you’re not shootin’, you should be loadin’. If you’re not loadin’, you should be movin’. If you’re not movin’, someone’s gonna cut your head off and put it on a stick." Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch.

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That’s ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?" Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch.

    "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." Col. Jeff Cooper

    "Remember the first rule of gunfighting... have a gun." Col. Jeff Cooper

    "The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory." Col. Jeff Cooper


    Train, train, train. . . Read, Watch, Think, Do.

    Sorry about the off topic and looooong response.

    In summation, The only reason I have for racking the slide is to load a round into the chamber in preparation for carrying my firearm in condition 1. I have never carried an empty gun. Never will. Period.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

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    In the event someone ripped your firearm off of you, it may be very advantageous to have an empty chamber and the safety engaged. With a bit of practice you could remedy those two situations very quickly makeing your firearm ready to go. For a guy that ripped your sidearm off of you, it would him/her considerably more time to remedy those situations which would give you time to react OR get your cell phone out and call 911.

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    My best advice is do what you are comfortable with when exercising your 2nd Amendment Rights to defend yourself and your family. Time and practice will make you more comfortable. I have recently moved to Utah from WI (Lauderdale Lakes by Elkhorn) but I did OC when in Wisconsin. My first OC outside my property was going with three friends (two of whom also did OC) to Blue Bay in Mukwonago for lunch. I do not think anyone noticed that three of us had sidearms. If anyone did, nothing was said. The next day we had an OC picnic with 10 of us doing OC. Two local LEO's came by and wanted to see what we were each carrying. We fed them hamburgers and they were very contented.

    You will hear from people who will say that a weapon that is not at the ready is a paperweight I will not tell you that. If you are anything like me, you need to work within your comfort bounds. Time and practice will make you less concerned about going to a more "ready" state of carry.:P

    I carry my Springfield Model 1911 Officer's Ultra Compact (.45 ACP 6 + 1) locked and loaded (and now concealed). Round in chamber with safety on. The safety on that weapon is a breeze to disengage and it is generally off before I am "on target". Finger remains off trigger until "on target". Practice this. I did this when I lived in Wisconsin and I do it in Utah (concealed in accordance with my Utah CCW). I also occasionally carry a Rossi 2-inch revolver in .357. On days that my clothing will not allow me to conceal either of those weapons, I have a Kal-Tech .32 auto that is a "pocket gun" and has no signature.

    One of the most frustrating times I had in Wisconsin was when Dictator Doyle vetoed conceal carry legislation and then on a-hole changed his vote so the over-ride would fail. Dictator Doyle appears to not be running so I encourage all of my former neighbors and friends to let the new candidates know that you are going to throw your money and support behind a 2nd Amendment candidate. Talk to your legislators about reviving concealed carry.

    I am appealing to you to do this because concealed carry works. In CCW States, the typical victim of a violent crime is also a criminal. The bad guys do not want to attack a citizen who seems sure of him/her self. Such a person may be a permit holder and any attack could get the bad guy dead. So, criminals pick on criminals. And, since a domestic disturbance beef can get your permit revoked and your weapons confiscated, guys go to Motel 6 rather than exchange a single angry word with mama. The domestic disputes here are all non permit holders. You can usually tell who holds a permit because they will not jay-walk even if no cars are coming.

    And, remember to practice Gun Control. Gun Control means hitting what you are aiming at every time you draw onto a target. That is "Gun Control". Go to the range often and train with a qualified instructor. Then train, train, and train. Did I mention to train? I am a weekly visitor to my local indoor range.

    Best of luck in Wisconsin with Open Carry. The police cannot protect citizens. Police respond to crime, investigate it, and then try to catch the bad guy. But, if they catch the bad guy it might help future victims, it does nothing for the victim of the crime they are investigating. YOU are responsible for your defense and the defense of those you love. Google Dave Grossman and an article entitled: On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheep-dogs". Dave takes the position that anyone who may lawfully carry, open or concealed, has a duty to his/her community to do so - at all times. I agree with him. My weapons are like my American Express, I never leave home without at least one of each.

    There is an old saying: "I would rather be judged by 12 than buried by 6." Keep that in mind as you decide when and where to carry.

    Now, in fond memory of Wisconsin (at least camping in the wonderful State Parks), please allow me to introduce you to my family. It all started with a Ruger Security 6 but in my experience, having a handgun means that it gets very lonely and wants brothers and sisters. Now, my little children are begging for a brother in .44 Magnum.

    My Family:
    Dan Wesson (Full Size) Model 1911 in .45ACP (8 + 1)
    Springfield Ultra Compact Model 1911 in .45 ACP (6 + 1)
    Para P10-45 Model 1911 in .45ACP (10 + 1)
    Ruger Security Six Revolver in .357 and 4-inch barrel
    Rossi 6-shot Revolver in .357 and 2-inch barrel
    Kel-Tech .32 auto *(Kevlar weapon; great pocket gun)
    Baretta in .22LR (Pistol for training women)
    DPMS M-4 in 5.56 / .223 16-inch heavy barrel (Mil-Spec)
    Ruger Mini-14 in 5.l56 / .223
    Mossburg Maverick 88 12-Gauge with 18.5 inch barrel 5 + 1
    Mossberg Maverick 88 12-Gauge with 20 inch barrel 7 + 1
    Marlin Model 795 in .22 LR (Rifle for training women)

    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  21. #21
    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Max wrote:
    In the event someone ripped your firearm off of you, it may be very advantageous to have an empty chamber and the safety engaged. With a bit of practice you could remedy those two situations very quickly makeing your firearm ready to go. For a guy that ripped your sidearm off of you, it would him/her considerably more time to remedy those situations which would give you time to react OR get your cell phone out and call 911.
    If you could, please site one instance of this happening to an open carrier. Just one please.

    I don't think a person should modify their safety due to the incredibly remote chance that what you described might happen. If that were the case, then why would you even step out of the house. Heck a meteorite might hit you.

    My post here is solely to illustrate what I do. What you do is entirely up to you.

    Just be sure you practice racking the slide till your fingers fall off. When seconds count, you do not want to have fumble fingers.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

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    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    jpm84092 wrote:
    One of the most frustrating times I had in Wisconsin was when Dictator Doyle vetoed conceal carry legislation and then on a-hole changed his vote so the over-ride would fail. Dictator Doyle appears to not be running so I encourage all of my former neighbors and friends to let the new candidates know that you are going to throw your money and support behind a 2nd Amendment candidate. Talk to your legislators about reviving concealed carry.
    Yeah, open carry is our only way here, thanks to ole Sherman. Back stabber. Anyways, they had their chance to make training mandatory for carrying. As it is, none required for me to go about as long as I open carry, and stay away from school zones and those other few gotchas.

    Would that bill have allowed you to pass within the 1000 ft boundary of schools?

    Anyways, it's getting warmer out, and I'll be carrying soon enough on a few trips. I just might go visit Walmart or Starbucks next time I run errands and have a stroll.

    I also bought a Flip Ultra HD today for some other uses, but I think I might just bring it along in case.

  23. #23
    McX
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    my intent at all times is to be innocent of instigation. therefor i carry at condition 3. i will rack one in as a final warning to an emerging threat of my intent to defend. it is truly the resort of last resorts.

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    McX wrote:
    my intent at all times is to be innocent of instigation. therefor i carry at condition 3. i will rack one in as a final warning to an emerging threat of my intent to defend. it is truly the resort of last resorts.
    You make a good point McX. Not as intimidating as racking a round in a shotgun, but basically the same principal. I hadn't thought about using the sidearm in the same way.

  25. #25
    McX
    Guest

    Post imported post

    i know there are those who would dispute my readiness, but i can draw and rack in one motion. again, i stand on, and would endure under oath; i was innocent of instigation, i gave the criminal every opportunity to disengage from the event. i had NO CHOICE! I will be able to sleep at night, and stand before God and be judged on my actions.

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