LEO/OPEN CARRY Joint Charity Get-together

imported post

This is from the thread "so you wanna carry part III"

Hopefully we can use this thread to set up the picnic/get-together. This is a great opportunity folks. Lets make it happen.



Wisconsin Regular wrote:

Well, I'm not a great conversationalist, but I do what I say. If you have been following this discussion you will know that I had range time today.Well, I managed not to shoot my foot, leg, or other body part with the one bullet I was given.

We did have a discussion with the entire class about O.C. and the process of dealing with calls. I made it clear to the class that asking or suggesting toa business owner if they "wanted" an OC person in their business or "removed" from their businesswould be inappropriate. We would also inform the owner that OC is legal.

I also spoke with the college training coordinator about a legal review class for OC. I sent an e-mail earlier and had not gotten a response....To my surprise they said it was too risky and would make the college subject lawsuit if their review caused an officer to act one way or another? Geez sounds like normal training to me.

They asked why I thought this was an issue and I explained the pending lawsuits with West Milwaukee and Chilton.They are/were clueless. I am sending them the federal case site. Iview the issue in many cases is a lack of training by the Leo's.I DO understand this is not the explanation in all the cases.

I will now ask assistant attorney generalDavid Perlman for a policy guidline that Leo's could follow that would provide a policy for handling OC contacts in a uniform and legal manner. If he chooses to respond ( I can not make him), My goal with this is develop a model OC policy that could be used by any agency in the state.

Fundraiser/food picnic, I'm still working on that. Do you have a charity you have worked with in the past?

WR

Click to expand...

Wow, I am very impressed with your attitude and professionalism. I appreciate your understanding of this situation and your willingness to cooperate and participate in an joint effort to educate and guide your fellow officers in the legal and appropriate treatment of open carriers.

I am especially gladdened that you are willing to get together with open carriers and just have a fun day, meet and greet. Bridging the gap between us is most easily accomplished by getting to know each other. Just as you and your brethren are not a bunch of jack booted thugs, we are not a bunch of wild cowboys or yeah hoos.

Realizing that we are more alike than different will be a good starting place. As for a charity, there are several to pick from. My personal favorite is an animal rescue, Tabby Town of Westby. Hubert and others have favorites as well. Lets move forward on this quickly and make arrangements.

This is a great opportunity for us all and the community in general. Perhaps we can set up a new thread just for the LEO/OPEN CARRY Joint Charity Get-together. I'll start a thread tonight and everyone can stop in with comments or ideas.

I extend my hand in friendship to you WR. Let's see where this takes us.

imported post

hardballer wrote:

This is from the thread "so you wanna carry part III"

Hopefully we can use this thread to set up the picnic/get-together. This is a great opportunity folks. Lets make it happen.



Wisconsin Regular wrote:

Well, I'm not a great conversationalist, but I do what I say. If you have been following this discussion you will know that I had range time today.Well, I managed not to shoot my foot, leg, or other body part with the one bullet I was given.

We did have a discussion with the entire class about O.C. and the process of dealing with calls. I made it clear to the class that asking or suggesting toa business owner if they "wanted" an OC person in their business or "removed" from their businesswould be inappropriate. We would also inform the owner that OC is legal.

I also spoke with the college training coordinator about a legal review class for OC. I sent an e-mail earlier and had not gotten a response....To my surprise they said it was too risky and would make the college subject lawsuit if their review caused an officer to act one way or another? Geez sounds like normal training to me.

They asked why I thought this was an issue and I explained the pending lawsuits with West Milwaukee and Chilton.They are/were clueless. I am sending them the federal case site. Iview the issue in many cases is a lack of training by the Leo's.I DO understand this is not the explanation in all the cases.

I will now ask assistant attorney generalDavid Perlman for a policy guidline that Leo's could follow that would provide a policy for handling OC contacts in a uniform and legal manner. If he chooses to respond ( I can not make him), My goal with this is develop a model OC policy that could be used by any agency in the state.

Fundraiser/food picnic, I'm still working on that. Do you have a charity you have worked with in the past?

WR

Click to expand...

Wow, I am very impressed with your attitude and professionalism. I appreciate your understanding of this situation and your willingness to cooperate and participate in an joint effort to educate and guide your fellow officers in the legal and appropriate treatment of open carriers.

I am especially gladdened that you are willing to get together with open carriers and just have a fun day, meet and greet. Bridging the gap between us is most easily accomplished by getting to know each other. Just as you and your brethren are not a bunch of jack booted thugs, we are not a bunch of wild cowboys or yeah hoos.

Realizing that we are more alike than different will be a good starting place. As for a charity, there are several to pick from. My personal favorite is an animal rescue, Tabby Town of Westby. Hubert and others have favorites as well. Lets move forward on this quickly and make arrangements.

This is a great opportunity for us all and the community in general. Perhaps we can set up a new thread just for the LEO/OPEN CARRY Joint Charity Get-together. I'll start a thread tonight and everyone can stop in with comments or ideas.

I extend my hand in friendship to you WR. Let's see where this takes us.

Click to expand...

+1 on this get together

I hope we can make it happen

imported post

I think this would also be a GREAT thing.

hardballer: as you seem to have a rapport with WR, ask him to pick the time and place of his/their choosing. WR can notify his superiors and they in turn notify the press. You guys put 50+ people in Sussex in less than a week, surely you could get 100+ with a little more notice.

Do this like a sponsored charitable event. Each attendee could donate $10.

You could also look at doing a run/walk type event through a major metropolitan area. Each attendee can get so many dollars/mile walked. WR could use his influence to not only get the officers to attend, but to get the head LEO to wave the GFSZ restriction.

From what I've seen, there are plenty of people on here who will help spread the word once WR or his employer puts out a press release.

imported post

Sounds like a good thing to me, maybe it could be planned somewhere in the central part of the state ? so driving times are about the same for everyone, just an idea.

imported post

I'm up for it, anything to promote the cause...

imported post

OK:

It looks like many here would be on board. The question is, can WR come through on his end? Would LEO actually get behind such a thing and walk side-by-side with us?

I would like to think so (for a good cause, like a fallen officers fund or something) but my thinking is the LEOs will be few and far between.

imported post

Support The 2nd wrote:

OK:

It looks like many here would be on board. The question is, can WR come through on his end? Would LEO actually get behind such a thing and walk side-by-side with us?

I would like to think so (for a good cause, like a fallen officers fund or something) but my thinking is the LEOs will be few and far between.

Click to expand...

I did not want to be the first to say that... yup, there will be 100 + Open Carriers & maybe 3 LEO ( Max ).....I am not including the 15 cops parked down the street in Cruisers....:?

imported post

I did not want to be the first to say that... yup, there will be 100 + Open Carriers & maybe 3 LEO ( Max ).....I am not including the 15 cops parked down the street in Cruisers....

Click to expand...

Totally agree.

We got 60 plus people together with 5 days notice for the Sussex incident. We could get 100+ together with a weeks notice for something like this...

I just don't think WR could come through. (for no fault of his own personally)

The 'visual' looks great... a bunch of OC'ers hanging out in harmony with a bunch of leo's. The reality is that they wouldn't be in uniform. You wouldn't know who was a leo and who wasn't. Beyond that, I agree that we'd have 3 (maybe) leo's show up.

Some who may be interested would likely not want to expose themselves to ridicule from others in the department who hold a more myopic view that only leo's should have weapons. I don't see leo's wanting to send a message to the general public that OC is fine with them. I just don't see their mentality going along with that. I'd HOPE for it, but I'm realistic also.

Having said all that. If WR can make it happen, we'll support it in large numbers. We'll just not put the cart in front of the horse on this one and left be holding the bag.

I think a better bet is to plan OC gatherings that you would anyway and invite leo's to come also. That way when they don't show up, its not a big deal because the intent was to have an OC awareness gathering, not a leo-oc hug-fest.

imported post

Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman wrote:

I did not want to be the first to say that... yup, there will be 100 + Open Carriers & maybe 3 LEO ( Max ).....I am not including the 15 cops parked down the street in Cruisers....

Click to expand...

Totally agree.

We got 60 plus people together with 5 days notice for the Sussex incident. We could get 100+ together with a weeks notice for something like this...

I just don't think WR could come through. (for no fault of his own personally)

The 'visual' looks great... a bunch of OC'ers hanging out in harmony with a bunch of leo's. The reality is that they wouldn't be in uniform. You wouldn't know who was a leo and who wasn't. Beyond that, I agree that we'd have 3 (maybe) leo's show up.

Some who may be interested would likely not want to expose themselves to ridicule from others in the department who hold a more myopic view that only leo's should have weapons. I don't see leo's wanting to send a message to the general public that OC is fine with them. I just don't see their mentality going along with that. I'd HOPE for it, but I'm realistic also.

Having said all that. If WR can make it happen, we'll support it in large numbers. We'll just not put the cart in front of the horse on this one and left be holding the bag.

I think a better bet is to plan OC gatherings that you would anyway and invite leo's to come also. That way when they don't show up, its not a big deal because the intent was to have an OC awareness gathering, not a leo-oc hug-fest.

Click to expand...

Excellent Idea Nick, Let's just start inviting Law Enforcement to every gathering. It would be a real opportunity for us all to get to know one another. I would hope that more than a few LEOs would take us up on this offer.

If we create an invite and make it available to all members to send to their respective Sheriff's and Police departments, we might be able to reach more than a few like minded individuals.

The onus is on us to make this happen if it is truly something we all would like to see come about. Amity among us all is a desirable goal. Cops good, Open Carriers Good, All good.

imported post

I don't see this happening. Not today not ever. I personaly have my doubts that WI Regular is even a LEO in the first place. If I am wrong then so be it, but I'm calling you out on this one WI Regular, plz proveme wrong.

imported post

I know that I can't be the only person thinking this...so I will just throw this up and let you guys sift through what comes out...

We could preregister for the event...providing them with an accurant count of those with the courage to openly carry, and a current address where they could send mailings to potential future events.

:banghead::cuss:

The hosting LEO department or agency can provide valet parking for the event...giving them right to search our vehicles and make a list of our VIN #'s , license plates or both.

:banghead::cuss:

They could host a shooting competition at a local range, perhaps we could use one at one of the local agenciesor perhaps a local high school.

:banghead::cuss:

Then we could enjoy an overnight sleepover courtesy of one of our LEO departments / agencies. It is my understanding that lodging, food and refreshmentswould be provided.

:banghead::cuss:

We could all get handcuffed & fingerprinted as a fun way to interact with our local law enforcement and see firsthand the inner workings of their facilities.

:banghead::cuss:

In the morning after a hot steamy group shower, and cold breakfast we can all go see the judge and his fancy polished courtroom before being ROR.

:banghead::cuss:

We wont be able to leave with everything we came with...but we will have some wonderful stories for the children / grandchildren.

:banghead::cuss:


Call me paranoid...but it doesn't mean that they aren't out to get me.



lets also not forget :uhohrotesting without a permit - public assembly whatever name you want to give it...like...I dont know "disturbing the peace.":celebrate

:banghead::cuss:

imported post

P229Sig357DAK wrote:

The hosting LEO department or agency can provide valet parking for the event...giving them right to search our vehicles and make a list of our VIN #'s , license plates or both.




Call me paranoid...but it doesn't mean that they aren't out to get me.

Click to expand...

Dude... As soon as you made your first post, your location and name wastraced and they already have the VIN number and license plate info from your vehicle...:lol:

imported post

p229... Hilarious! Laughed my ass off! Well done!

(only funny cause its true!) Carry on!

imported post

I know... we could just keep doing what we have been doing and keep getting what we have been getting.

That way we wouldn't have to try anything new or different or step out of our comfort zones.

Adversarial relationships with Law Enforcement are always so much fun. Make for interesting meetings.

If anyone thinks "they" need a get-together to screw with you, you are sadly mistaken. I know this from personal experience. With Google, Yahoo and Microsoft's tight relationships with Law Enforcement (they charge a couple of grand for a targeted report on individuals or areas.) They know more about you then you do.

Personally, I think any kind of dialog is better than no dialog. I do agree that trust is an issue and this idea of getting together is probably just as big a joke to some in Law Enforcement just as it is here.

I know that the cops I am friends with are good guys. They have a difficult job and we need to allay thier fear and maybe find some common ground. So far every Open Carrier that I have met is a good guy too. We do not have to be adversaries and an ally in Law Enforcement would be nice to have.

Won't hold any sway if your in the wrong but their approach in general, in everyday situations might be more tempered. Less adversarial.

I could be barking up the wrong tree here but I have been known to howl at the moon too. Go figure.

imported post

hardballer wrote:

I know... we could just keep doing what we have been doing and keep getting what we have been getting.

That way we wouldn't have to try anything new or different or step out of our comfort zones.

Adversarial relationships with Law Enforcement are always so much fun. Make for interesting meetings.

If anyone thinks "they" need a get-together to screw with you, you are sadly mistaken. I know this from personal experience. With Google, Yahoo and Microsoft's tight relationships with Law Enforcement (they charge a couple of grand for a targeted report on individuals or areas.) They know more about you then you do.

Personally, I think any kind of dialog is better than no dialog. I do agree that trust is an issue and this idea of getting together is probably just as big a joke to some in Law Enforcement just as it is here.

I know that the cops I am friends with are good guys. They have a difficult job and we need to allay thier fear and maybe find some common ground. So far every Open Carrier that I have met is a good guy too. We do not have to be adversaries and an ally in Law Enforcement would be nice to have.

Won't hold any sway if your in the wrong but their approach in general, in everyday situations might be more tempered. Less adversarial.

I could be barking up the wrong tree here but I have been known to howl at the moon too. Go figure.

Click to expand...

I'm with you 100% Hardballer. If WR is who he says he is, then socializing with him will open a new chapter in normalizing OC in Wisconsin. If he is totally misrepresenting himself then we will just be having another get-together/OC event. No big loss. We don't know who he is for sure, but we know who we are. Let's go with that and not start looking for sinister plots.

Dave

imported post

I know a couple of local cops that would come, and I'd bet if anyone that would attend from WCI knows a cop or 2. Maybe instead of relying on WR, we invite cops that are already our friends??? :idea:

imported post

Excellent thinking. I'll see what the guys I know have to say.

imported post

Everyone,

As I mentioned earlier, I can not guarantee anyone except myself. I will certainly invite. I think the idea of inviting officers that many of you already know is a good idea. A cover charge going to charity to me sounds good too. I would offer to be the contact with thelocal LE Agency if you needed someoneto do so.

WR

imported post

P229Sig357DAK wrote:

In the morning after a hot steamy group shower, and cold breakfast we can all go see the judge and his fancy polished courtroom before being ROR.

Click to expand...

Um, I don't want to be involved in the hot, steamy shower group......

imported post

Hot steamy WHAT??? WHOA NOW! Heck, I missed that comment. WTH? That doesn't appeal to me either. :what:

That is just wrong on so many levels.