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Thread: HB 2347?

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    Does anyone have a clue as to what's going on with HB 2347? It's seem's as though everything I read about it, it is being postponed for one reason or another. I just want to know if anyone has any straight answer as to how this is playing out, or when it is scheduled/estimated to play out. This would really help my situation considering this pertains to one of the big reasons I am hesitant to OC. I really don't need to put my seat belt on and suddenly be concealed carrying, facing possible criminal charges.

    Thanks, hope to hear soon.


    Andy

    P.S. If you are unclear about the Arizona House Bill 2347, it basically removes the need to acquire a CCW to conceal carry (as far as I understand it).

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    Herdo, do you keep an eye on the AZCDL news page? I try to read that every couple of days to find out which issues I may need to "prod" my legislators over.

    http://www.azcdl.org/html/news.html

    That page will keep you updated on the status of all the bills AZCDL is tracking.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Herdo wrote:
    Does anyone have a clue as to what's going on with HB 2347?
    Passed the House MAPS committee in early Februarythen was heldin the House Judicary committee, but was released a week or so ago. It's sitting in the House Rules committee along with a number of other bills.

    It has a twin in the Senate which was SB 1102that was scuttled by a "turn gun owners into felons" amendment. It will be resurrected in the form of SB 1108 tomorrow (3/8) afternoon. If you want to help it pass, go here.

    Like someone else posted, you can find what's going on at the AzCDL News page.

    The best way to learn what's happening and to become involved is to join AzCDL. Members get the first notification when things happen. More importantly, the larger we are as an organization, the more clout we have at the Leigslature. We can notdo this alone. We already have over 2,900 members. Maybe you can help us get over the 3,000 mark?

    Fred

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    Is this an OC issue?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Pace wrote:
    Is this an OC issue?
    Yes

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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    Herdo wrote:
    Does anyone have a clue as to what's going on with HB 2347? It's seem's as though everything I read about it, it is being postponed for one reason or another. I just want to know if anyone has any straight answer as to how this is playing out, or when it is scheduled/estimated to play out. This would really help my situation considering this pertains to one of the big reasons I am hesitant to OC. I really don't need to put my seat belt on and suddenly be concealed carrying, facing possible criminal charges.

    Thanks, hope to hear soon.


    Andy

    P.S. If you are unclear about the Arizona House Bill 2347, it basically removes the need to acquire a CCW to conceal carry (as far as I understand it).
    Straight answer is for now HB 2347 has been withdrawn the easiest and most up to the minute way to keep tabs on this is to go straight to the arizona state senate web site everything is there use bill search in top right corner.



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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    Pace wrote:
    Is this an OC issue?
    no it is a firearms issue more specific a ccw issue.

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    I would not surprise me if Arizona was the next State to implement an 'Alaska-style'/'Vermont-style' Carry.

    I still believe that Montana, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico, and Idaho, will soon, follow suit.

    Colorado will not be able to though, so as long as Colorado's Preemption Law is succesfully countered by Denver.



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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    brokenbarrel wrote:
    Pace wrote:
    Is this an OC issue?
    no it is a firearms issue more specific a ccw issue.
    The constitutional carry bills, if passed,have a postiveimpact on Open Carry. Current law (ARS 13-3102.F) regarding open carry and vehicle carry has been obfuscated by two 1994 court decisions, State v Adams and State v Moerman, and can no longer be relied on. For all practical pusposes, the best way to legally carry openly is when you also have a CCW permit.

    HB 2347 and the companion Senate bill remove all the restrictive lanugage about open and vehicle carry (and in the process negate the court decisions) along with all prohibtions and penalties by law-abiding adults carrying concealed.

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    brokenbarrel wrote:
    Straight answer is for now HB 2347 has been withdrawn the easiest and most up to the minute way to keep tabs on this is to go straight to the arizona state senate web site everything is there use bill search in top right corner.
    "Withdrawn" in this sense means that the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee "withdrew" the bill from his committee, meaning he released it and is no longer holding onto it. HB 2347 passed in the House MAPS committee in February and is waiting a review in the Rules committee before being debated in the House COW (committee of the whole). Details are here.

    How bills move in the legislature can be found here and here.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    aadvark wrote:
    I would not surprise me if Arizona was the next State to implement an 'Alaska-style'/'Vermont-style' Carry. I still believe that Montana, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico, and Idaho, will soon, follow suit. Colorado will not be able to though, so as long as Colorado's Preemption Law is succesfully countered by Denver.
    It's been a long (5 years) tough fight. If we're successful, Arizona would be the first "urbanized" state to do it.Legislative sausage making is nothing like"Mr. Smith goes to Washington."

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    Ignoring this isn't an OC issue.

    What happens if this passes and then no other state recognizes the AZ permits anymore? Most States only recognize permits if they are equal or similar training.

    Anyone thought of that?


    azcdlfred wrote:
    aadvark wrote:
    I would not surprise me if Arizona was the next State to implement an 'Alaska-style'/'Vermont-style' Carry. I still believe that Montana, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico, and Idaho, will soon, follow suit. Colorado will not be able to though, so as long as Colorado's Preemption Law is succesfully countered by Denver.
    It's been a long (5 years) tough fight. If we're successful, Arizona would be the first "urbanized" state to do it.Legislative sausage making is nothing like"Mr. Smith goes to Washington."

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    Pace wrote:
    Ignoring this isn't an OC issue.

    What happens if this passes and then no other state recognizes the AZ permits anymore? Most States only recognize permits if they are equal or similar training.

    Anyone thought of that?


    azcdlfred wrote:
    aadvark wrote:
    I would not surprise me if Arizona was the next State to implement an 'Alaska-style'/'Vermont-style' Carry. I still believe that Montana, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico, and Idaho, will soon, follow suit. Colorado will not be able to though, so as long as Colorado's Preemption Law is succesfully countered by Denver.
    It's been a long (5 years) tough fight. If we're successful, Arizona would be the first "urbanized" state to do it.Legislative sausage making is nothing like"Mr. Smith goes to Washington."
    Dude, what part of "you can still take the class and get a permit if you want one" do you not understand? Nothing changes the requirements for the CWP, and by getting one, it's an advantage to carry out of state, in national parks, in bars/resturaunts, no NICS check when buying a gun,etc..

    It's really that simple, really!!!!



    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

    Clyde

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    Oh. Duh. My bad.

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    From an e-mail yesterday (OCDO was down) Just got word from AzCDL's "Men at the Capitol." SB 1108, with the "strike everything" amendment making it the AzCDL-requested Constitutional Carry bill passed out of the Appropriations Committee a short while ago by a 7-1 vote with one person not voting. Woo Hoo! Thanks for sending those emails!

    Since the committee is still hearing other bills, the vote details are not yet available at the Legislature's website. However, the new language of SB 1108 containing the removal of prohibitions and penalties for law-abiding adults carrying a concealed weapon without a permit can be found here: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/proposed/s.1108rp.pdf.

    A more formal Alert will be forthcoming later in the week.

    Fred

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    Got this in an email from Insight Firearms Training:

    ARIZONA CCW LEGAL NOTICE March 8th, 2010 Gavel THIS WEEK THE ARIZONA LEGISLATIVE SESSION TO VOTE ON BANNING THE CCW PERMIT REQUIREMENT We need your Help Now ! After attending our AZ CCW Class you know how important it is for anyone who carries a firearm to know How to Safely Handle a Firearm and our Arizona Laws. Please cut and copy the text below and send this letter to our Legislators. RE: Vote NO on House Bill 2347 & Senate Bill 1108 Dear Representatives: I am a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment of the US Constitution. Nevertheless, I strongly OPPOSE House Bill 2347 & Senate Bill 1108 which would authorize Arizonans to carry a concealed weapon without the permit that is currently required by Arizona law. I have recently taken the 8-hour CCW course required by current law and I can tell you first-hand that it is invaluable and necessary for anyone who plans to carry a concealed weapon. I realized when I took the CCW course offered by Insight Firearms Training Development in Prescott Arizona that there was much that I did not know (or remember as the case may be) about the safe handling of firearms and, importantly, the law applicable to their use for purposes of personal protection in real life (and death) situations. Persons who carry concealed weapons who are not properly trained and educated will be hazardous to you, me and all of the residents of this state. The argument often offered in support of allowing a person to carry without proper training is that "criminals do not worry about CCW permits, so why should we require it of good, law-abiding citizens". That may be true, but the argument is disingenuous. Our laws apply to all people - good and bad. The fact that some choose to violate the laws of our society does not constitute good reason to modify them in a manner that will be injurious to the safety of our communities. Should we modify every law in our society because the criminals don't follow them? Should we base all laws of our society on the behavior of the criminals? The Second Amendment, as interpreted by the US Supreme Court, does not proscribe reasonable governmental restrictions on an individual's rights with respect to firearms. To restrict individuals from carrying a handgun in a concealed manner under any circumstance would be unreasonable. It is not unreasonable, however, to require that person to demonstrate that he has obtained the proper training and education in the use of that concealed weapon. With every right comes a corresponding duty an responsibility! We need to retain that requirement. Vote NO on House Bill 2347 & Senate Bill 1108 Voice Your Opinion! Please write your own letter or copy the letter above along with the following Legislators email address' and send ASAP!



    These guys really tick me off. They care more about their cash cow than our constitutional rights.

    Not the first time they've annoyed me (I took my CCW class with them, thaks to a gift certificate from my wonderful wife). They weren't shy about expressing their disdain for open carry and they even went as far as saying (perhaps paraphrased slightly):
    We are not pro gun. If we could magically make all guns disappear we would, but since we can't we want to teach how to use them safely and effectively
    Nice sounding sentiment but I guess they didn't consider all the people who would be helpless against bigger, stronger aggressors without an Equalizer.
    http://arizonagunowners.com - The best AZ gun board around!

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    My wife got the same email form Insight. She's already informed, since firearms rights are my hotbutton. She was amused by the phrase "BANNING the CCW requirement", making it sound like the legislature is TAKING SOMETHING AWAY from the people.



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    Thankyou so much to everyone that has put info into this topic. It really helped along with the links. Oh and to those who kept asking if this is an OC issue. Yes it is. Maybe by itself not entirely but if read my whole topic I state that I do plan to OC and I would feel more comfortable with this law in effect (or not in effect 8S I guess that depends on how you view it). I dont want to be arrested because my jacked covers the handle of my gun or something ridiculous. From what I've read so far regarding OC laws, it is extremely gray and up to the officers discretion almost. Partially visible gun, partially visible holster, completely visible holster, it's extremely gray.

    Thanks again to everyone that has commented!

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Herdo wrote:
    Does anyone have a clue as to what's going on with HB 2347?
    I just sent out an Alert to our membership on the status of HB 2347. You can read the website version here.

    Fred

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    Does anyone know if this bill would allow OC for those under the age of 18 likein Montana or Vermontor would it stay 18 to OC and 21 to CC?

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    exp15 wrote:
    Does anyone know if this bill would allow OC for those under the age of 18 likein Montana or Vermontor would it stay 18 to OC and 21 to CC?
    Nothing in these bills change the current law regarding those under the age of 21.

    Fred

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    exp15 wrote:
    Does anyone know if this bill would allow OC for those under the age of 18 likein Montana or Vermontor would it stay 18 to OC and 21 to CC?
    Nothing in these bills change the current law regarding anyone under 21.

    Fred


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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    hb 2347 will be in COW tomarrow 3/25/10...

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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    well it got a DPA today(do pass amended)...now we wait for the next step..

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    if all goes well, how long are we looking at before it becomes law? any idea?

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