So I got into an argument with my wife

Pace · Mar 9, 2010

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The problme is that people will ask

"Is it legal to do this?"

And they get, besides the incorrect answers, things like "Oh, it's Unconstitutional, we shouldn't have to obey laws."

I don't want to see someone walking down the street OCing in NYC and then have to defend themselves for a 5 year jail sentence with "It's Unconstitutional because Masta Doug told me on OCDO."

I'm a pretty damn light person actually.

okboomer wrote:

Pace wrote:

Ok, lets all agree that most of these laws are unconstitutional.

However it does no good whenever someone asks a question about the law, to continue to reply that. I bet if I search "Master Doug" on this board, I will see 1,000 posts that say "that's unconstitutional."

Some people want to know the law as written, until SCOTUS declares it unconstitutional.

Click to expand...

So you were appointed as a moderator and now have the power to restrict free discussion ON TOPIC of OPEN CARRY in the forum?

Yes, it has been stated that it is unconstitutional, but have you noticed how MANY new members have signed up lately ... this discussion is not for your sole edification, but for the general membership, including the new members who are joining the discussion mid-stream.

It might be time for some to lighten up and consider the whole of the membership.

Of course, I might be wrong, out of line, or just plain being a bitch, but I do see a lot of new members who probably do not have time to read all the past posts (I know I didn't, but did try to follow the whole thread as they were resurrected), and who just might be interested in asking questions about the logic of a specific position and can then be pointed to the relevant thread/discussion.

TheMrMitch · Mar 9, 2010

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Just FYI: Every year a local school hosts a dinner for vets. I am a sworn Ky Deputy. At these events, I am not in uniform nor do I have my badge exposed. We dine in the school cafeteria during school hours with students as servers.

I let the principal or organizer know I am armed and theyinvite me on in.Once seated, I removemy jacket orvest and eat with my exposed Glock. Usually with the mayor or my friend, her husband. The local cop and county deputy are there too.

Opinions of this?:dude:

okboomer · Mar 9, 2010

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Pace wrote:

The problme is that people will ask And you are to determine what is a problem - a problem for whom?

"Is it legal to do this?"

Legal to do what? I saw no call to action, nor advocacy of anything other than a discussion on the constitutionality of a standing law.

And they get, besides the incorrect answers, things like "Oh, it's Unconstitutional, we shouldn't have to obey laws."

What was incorrect in any of the discussion, other than what was cited and admitted to by the OP, but his disagreement of interpretation was noted on one point. Again, a discussion of the constitutionality and application of a standing law with no call to action against the law, nor the advocacy of anything else

I don't want to see someone walking down the street OCing in NYC and then have to defend themselves for a 5 year jail sentence with "It's Unconstitutional because Masta Doug told me on OCDO."

And you are responsible in what way? Who appointed you to this responsibility? And you use a derrogatory appellation? How dare you! That is offensive on so many levels!

I'm a pretty damn light person actually.

Umm, IMHO, you are overbearing and condescending, but that is just my opinion.

bigdaddy1 · Mar 9, 2010

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TheMrMitch wrote:

Just FYI: Every year a local school hosts a dinner for vets. I am a sworn Ky Deputy. At these events, I am not in uniform nor do I have my badge exposed. We dine in the school cafeteria during school hours with students as servers.

I let the principal or organizer know I am armed and theyinvite me on in.Once seated, I removemy jacket orvest and eat with my exposed Glock. Usually with the mayor or my friend, her husband. The local cop and county deputy are there too.

Opinions of this?:dude:

My opinion is thats cool. I dont know what the law in KY is, but in WI as long as you have permission (apparently its ok for the pricipal to authorize) its all good from what the WI GFSZ reads.
[align=left]4. By an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;[/align]
[align=left]Although the concealed part may be a problem in WI:what: Otherwise from how the law is worded, unless you are working, your violating.[/align]

TheMrMitch · Mar 9, 2010

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I carry open.....unless weather dictates otherwise. This event is held on vets day in November. Once seated in a warm room, I OC.:dude:

Dreamer · Mar 9, 2010

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I think that to interpret attending a dinner would fall under "a program approved by a school in the school zone" is a bit of a legal stretch. And if you are an LEO, but not "on duty, or performing official duties", then you are definitely NOT allowed to carry, per WI or Federal law.

I think that perhaps you are, in fact, in violation of the law, but because you are an LEO, you are "given a pass."

Were a regular citizen to ask for permission to carry at such a school function, I imagine the school officials would deny it.

Whether you are willing to admit it or not, there are two sets of laws in this country--the law as written (and applied to ordinary citizens), and the law as applied to "privaleged" classes like LEOs, elected officials, and "celebrities"...

The question you SHOULD be asking is why should YOU be allowed to function under a different standard of application of the law than what would be expected from an ordinary citizen?

TheMrMitch · Mar 9, 2010

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Leos should NOT have a different standard. I do agree with this, but sometimes they surely do. That is why I OC most of the time and NEVER expose my badge.

The point I make is the school does NOT know I am a deputy, yet I am allowed in with permission. Nothing illegal there.....at least in Ky.

Of course, my friends know. This is a different town/county from which I work and live.

Both are small towns.

Archsgurl · Mar 9, 2010

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ROTC Rifles have never been capable of firing and just weighted to feel like the real thing for the different programs they use them in. So I think you owe your wife at least a clarification of the fact you were misinformed about those rifles breaking a law. LOL

Leo -- truly are they ever really "off duty"? My cousin was a county sheriff when I was a kid and he said that he never really was off duty even if not on shift or in civis.

Nozoki · Mar 10, 2010

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I think by the letter of the law the OP is probably correct about the officer. However if the cop is in uniform I would consider him "on the clock" as I would assume he would be able to arrest someone committing a crime even if he hasn't officially started his shift yet.

P.S. I hate to be a nerd, but the English teacher that lives in my head must point out that the term is "moot point", not "mute point".

cscitney87 · Mar 10, 2010

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Anybody remember the High School Color Guard student that was suspended for having her fake wooden rifle in her car?

Remember the other story about the Elementary School boy who was suspended for bringing a Swiss Army pocketknife to school?

Oh and on the Unconstitutional Front... The Supreme Court of the United States has already ruled that unconstitutional laws are not to be obeyed under any circumstances.

So whom decides which laws are unconstitutional and which laws are constitutional? In principle (being a Free society)- we do- men and women of age 18 and older. In practice- the law enforcement community and chiefly judges.

1Grizzly1 · Mar 10, 2010

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In the state of Utah if you have a CFP you may carry in to any school. It is specifically written in to our firearms laws.

NightOwl · Mar 10, 2010

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Nozoki wrote:

P.S. I hate to be a nerd, but the English teacher that lives in my head must point out that the term is "moot point", not "mute point".

I'm glad you did. I've been trying to restrain myself at seeing these 'mute points' several times in the last few days.

bigdaddy1 · Mar 10, 2010

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NightOwl wrote:

Nozoki wrote:

P.S. I hate to be a nerd, but the English teacher that lives in my head must point out that the term is "moot point", not "mute point".

Click to expand...

I'm glad you did. I've been trying to restrain myself at seeing these 'mute points' several times in the last few days.

We dont speak of these terms, so keep it mute.

sudden valley gunner · Mar 13, 2010

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Is there a thread in General discussion Pace doesn't ruin?

Hunting Mama · Mar 14, 2010

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Imust say that this thread did peak my interest. A few years ago I did see and off duty, out of his jurisdiction any way, OCing father dropping his son off at a private school. I guess I didn't think much of it then seeing that I knew he was LE, but this is a good question. I personally don't see a problem with OC on scool property, whether you are LE or not.

Hollowpoint38 · Mar 17, 2010

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Pace wrote:

ROTC drill rifles are M1 Garrard replicas.

They are not working rifles in any shape or form.

They are not "guns"

No offense, but what is your point? These are large enough to look like rifles. Kids have been suspended and even expelled from schools because they have a pistol "look-a-like" that is no bigger than an inch in size.

How is a full sized rifle allowed when I plastic key chain pistol isn't?

So I got into an argument with my wife

Pace

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TheMrMitch

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okboomer

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bigdaddy1

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TheMrMitch

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Dreamer

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TheMrMitch

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Archsgurl

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Nozoki

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cscitney87

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1Grizzly1

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NightOwl

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bigdaddy1

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sudden valley gunner

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Hunting Mama

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Hollowpoint38

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