You can open carry your pistol, properly holstered, at the Restore the Constitution rally on 4-19

Master Doug Huffman · Mar 25, 2010

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Mike wrote:

Remember, this is a publicity game folks.

And the publicity mediators, the media, are cannibals that choose and fatten their meals well in advance of the gathering at which the 'meal' is invited as guest of honor.

Be careful and not least of gifts from geeks with low post counts and recent interest.

peter nap · Mar 25, 2010

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Mike wrote:

I'm still a little cautious on this event and why they are insisting that people open carry - mixing political messages noyt about gun rights with open carry is not a good idea, especially if we get (rightly ior wrongly) conflated wih law breakers and crack pots - sounds like some folks might want to borrow some of our open carry mojo for their own purposes - I'll be stain' far away:shock:

Remember, this is a publicity game folks.

I think that's especially true right now Mike. The first feed I pulled up this morning was about the Coffin left in Rep. Russ Carnahanyard yard. Pictures of a noose have been sent to legislators, erriello’s brother's gas line was cut, Threats to Legislators children have been made and the Tea Party, rightly or not, have been blamed.

Considering the alliance between the Tea Party and gun groups, it's especially important now for gun owners to pick their fights carefully and maintain a squeaky clean public persona.

I haven't liked the way this event has been presented from the start and don't care much for the organizer. That in itself isn't a big deal (there are even very active gun people on my whupass list:lol

but this event goes way beyond my not liking someone.

Pro gun people have to be the proverbial duck and be calm on the top and work like hell for our goals, under water.

wylde007 · Mar 25, 2010

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peter nap wrote:

Considering the alliance between the Tea Party and gun groups, it's especially important now for gun owners to pick their fights carefully and maintain a squeaky clean public persona.

You're welcome to that opinion, but there is a lot of good that can be done and I don't believe the premise is to break laws.

This is open expression of disgust and displeasure with government, certainly, in my opinion, more vocal than a bunch of people standing around unarmed.

Is there opportunity for a 'powder-keg' event? Perhaps. There is also opportunity to be peaceful, law-abiding, openly carrying citizens and Virginia is, thankfully, one of the most amiable to such an event, at least with proximity to DC. Open as opposed to concealed is to 1) do so lawfully and without asking "permission" and 2) so that they know we still wish to retain the civil authority over government.

That's why it is a "Restore the Constitution" event. Without the 2nd Amendment none of the others have any meaning, because it is the only one where force of arms, in the hands of the aforementioned civil authority, bears.

All other Amendments are words on paper. Without a means for the people to defend them, they could easily be usurped and defiled - as they have for generations.

It is, perhaps, a final warning to "them". Our history and our heritage is very clear on the course that these events must take and the only way to prevent them from escalating into violence is for the government to start listening. What happens beyond that none of us truly want to see, but our founders would already have been standing on Concord bridge by now.

I believe they would be ashamed at how long we have permitted this tyranny to abide.

peter nap · Mar 25, 2010

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wylde007 wrote:

peter nap wrote:

Considering the alliance between the Tea Party and gun groups, it's especially important now for gun owners to pick their fights carefully and maintain a squeaky clean public persona.

Click to expand...

You're welcome to that opinion, but there is a lot of good that can be done and I don't believe the premise is to break laws.

This is open expression of disgust and displeasure with government, certainly, in my opinion, more vocal than a bunch of people standing around unarmed.

Is there opportunity for a 'powder-keg' event? Perhaps. There is also opportunity to be peaceful, law-abiding, openly carrying citizens and Virginia is, thankfully, one of the most amiable to such an event, at least with proximity to DC. Open as opposed to concealed is to 1) do so lawfully and without asking "permission" and 2) so that they know we still wish to retain the civil authority over government.

That's why it is a "Restore the Constitution" event. Without the 2nd Amendment none of the others have any meaning, because it is the only one where force of arms, in the hands of the aforementioned civil authority, bears.

All other Amendments are words on paper. Without a means for the people to defend them, they could easily be usurped and defiled - as they have for generations.

It is, perhaps, a final warning to "them". Our history and our heritage is very clear on the course that these events must take and the only way to prevent them from escalating into violence is for the government to start listening. What happens beyond that none of us truly want to see, but our founders would already have been standing on Concord bridge by now.

I believe they would be ashamed at how long we have permitted this tyranny to abide.

I happen to share many of your feelings Wylde, but I also am not going to take a public stance that will force us into a corner.
Unless we draw a line in the sand and tell the Government shots will be fired if they cross it, we have to try to work within the system.
I can tell you that any armed revolt is useless right now. For every person that says you can have my gun when you pry it from my fingers, and means it, you have a thousand loudmouths that will run like frightened children when it starts.

Working within the system unfortunately, means keeping a clean public appearance. Not subservient, but exactly what most of us are. Average law abiding citizens that are fed up with the BS.

Look back in history. While John Adams is an American hero, Abbie Hoffman is not. They shared many of the same ideas and tactics, but public perception is different.

wylde007 · Mar 25, 2010

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peter nap wrote:

Unless we draw a line in the sand and tell the Government shots will be fired if they cross it, we have to try to work within the system.

I can't help but wonder when this will go from a possibility to a reality. I know, for me, that I believe there is little hope in a peaceful solution to the magnitude of abuse our liberty has undergone.

I am starting out behind the proverbial 8-ball because it takes that much more for me to accede to "the system" in searching for justice when I am fairly certain it will end the same way it always has, with one bit of freedom swapped in compromise for another seeming "victory".

"THEY" will never let us have our country (or countries, as I see fit to call them) back. The damage is too extensive and their intrusions too deep. As much as, like my ancestors, I wish for a peaceful, amicable solution to our common concerns, I doubt very much that it can be accomplished with the current regime.

And that is not directed at the usurper specifically. It is the entire governmental structure of the past 100+ years.

I can tell you that any armed revolt is useless right now. For every person that says you can have my gun when you pry it from my fingers, and means it, you have a thousand loudmouths that will run like frightened children when it starts.

There is no practical argument for this statement. You are 100% correct and that is my fear with any 3% or "muster" group who wants to see change instituted, but are not willing to stand in front of an echelon of tanks.

The problem with a gamble like that is the same as with anything else. The odds favor the house... for now.

John Pierce · Mar 25, 2010

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My thoughts as a follow-up to Mike's comments

OpenCarry.org is NOT a conservative movement and should notbe construed as such. We are a civil rights organization first and foremost and we support the rights of all American citizens including minorities, members of the GLBT community and immigrants wishing to avail themselves of the blessings to be found in our great and diverse nation! We condemn ANY person that promotes violence, intolerance or hatred in any form!

Mike Vanderboegh certainly fits this definition and we should have nothing to do with him or with any rally where he is a speaker. We advocate for enhancement of the legal environment for gun owners through the legislature, the courts and though public and media awareness. Any calls for violence such as Vanderboegh is making should immediately insure that any gun owner who wishes to protect our rights runs the other way!

If a rally is about lawful open carry and comports with all local, state and federal laws, then we would support it whole-heartedly. But please do not conflate a specific position on health care (or any other politically charged issue) with gun ownership. Gun owners are as diverse as America and we encourage our members to avoid mixing issues and certainly to avoid expressing political anger while armed.

We are about the lawful carry of properly holstered handguns by law-abiding citizens as they go about their daily lives. That includes libertarians, liberals, conservative and progressives.

John

wylde007 · Mar 25, 2010

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@John, while OCDO is not a "conservative" movement per-se, it is populated by mostly freedom and liberty-minded individuals who more frequently than not meet the definition of "conservative" as compared to other pigeon-holes into which they could be thrust.

Dan's introduction and invitation on this site does not, as do no others, infer that the membership here necessarily supports or disapproves of the event. Dan recognizes the possibility (probability) that there may be members here who share that portion of the views and knowing that this site caters to the fundamental rights of firearms ownership and carry, wanted to extend the invitation to those who might at least welcome the invitation objectively.

Jonesy · Mar 25, 2010

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jpierce wrote:

My thoughts as a follow-up to Mike's comments

OpenCarry.org is NOT a conservative movement and should notbe construed as such. We are a civil rights organization first and foremost and we support the rights of all American citizens including minorities, members of the GLBT community and immigrants wishing to avail themselves of the blessings to be found in our great and diverse nation! We condemn ANY person that promotes violence, intolerance or hatred in any form!

Mike Vanderboegh certainly fits this definition and we should have nothing to do with him or with any rally where he is a speaker. We advocate for enhancement of the legal environment for gun owners through the legislature, the courts and though public and media awareness. Any calls for violence such as Vanderboegh is making should immediately insure that any gun owner who wishes to protect our rights runs the other way!

If a rally is about lawful open carry and comports with all local, state and federal laws, then we would support it whole-heartedly. But please do not conflate a specific position on health care (or any other politically charged issue) with gun ownership. Gun owners are as diverse as America and we encourage our members to avoid mixing issues and certainly to avoid expressing political anger while armed.

We are about the lawful carry of properly holstered handguns by law-abiding citizens as they go about their daily lives. That includes libertarians, liberals, conservative and progressives.

John

I am glad you said this, as it aligns very closely with my own thinking. I hope most here feel the same way. I want nothing to do with that "event".

The Donkey · Mar 25, 2010

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wylde007 wrote:

@John, while OCDO is not a "conservative" movement per-se, it is populated by mostly freedom and liberty-minded individuals who more frequently than not meet the definition of "conservative" as compared to other pigeon-holes into which they could be thrust.

Dan's introduction and invitation on this site does not, as do no others, infer that the membership here necessarily supports or disapproves of the event. Dan recognizes the possibility (probability) that there may be members here who share that portion of the views and knowing that this site caters to the fundamental rights of firearms ownership and carry, wanted to extend the invitation to those who might at least welcome the invitation objectively.

After visiting the site of the "Restore the Constitution" rally, http://restoretheconstitution.ning.com/, it is clear that it is not for me.

That being said, there is nothing at the site that suggests that the rallyendorses the sort ofhate and violence espoused by the likes of Mike Vanderboegh. Futhermore, I can see from the sitethat a gentleman named Daniel Almond (who you imply may be our "Barely Illegal") has put alot of selfless work into organizing this event.

It is always possible that Mr. Almond deliberately invitedMr. Vanderboegh, knowing and approvingof Vanderboegh's extremist agenda. After all, "Barely Illegal" has conspicuouslyfailed to comment on Vanderboegh's participation after it was disclosed on this Board.

But it seems equally possible that Mr. Almond just unwittingly turned his rally into an extremist event by mistakenly extendingan ill-advised invitation toa fringespeaker.

If that is the case, I feel a little sorry for Mr. Almond.

But those of us in Northern Virginia who support the right to OC are still left withan "OC Event" that is apotential nightmare-nutcase-magnetwhich could eclipse what is going on across the river, and do damage real to the 2A cause.

John and Mike are right about thepotential for bad press when guns arecarrieden masse to a mixed message political rally, whatever the intent.

Moreover, so long as Vanerboegh is associated with this event, it is poison.

wylde007 · Mar 26, 2010

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The Donkey wrote:

Moreover, so long as Vanderboegh is associated with this event, it is poison.

The regime in power is the true poison in our well.

Consider: our founders would all be "Vanderboegh"s if today's liberal media were painting them.

BARELY ILLEGAL · Mar 28, 2010

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Skip Coryell, founder of the Second Amendment March,plans on speakingat the restore the Constitution rally/ Muster Outside DC 4-19-2010in the afternoon (after speaking at SAM in DC in the morning).

:celebrate

http://restoretheconstitution.wordpress.com/2010/03/25/rattling-the-second-amendment-saber/

http://muster4-19.ning.com/profile/SkipCoryell?xg_source=activity

I'll have a list of all of the featured speakers out shortly on the Restore the Constitution blog, as well as info about the permit, which the National Park Service just approved last week.

:celebrate

Hope to see a lot of y'all there!

John Pierce · Mar 29, 2010

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Skip is a great speaker and a good guy but despite his presence I still have to ask ...

Is Mike Vanderboegh still going to be a speaker at this event?

If so, I would encourage open carriers to attend the Second Amendment March in DC (unarmed of course) but to think long and hard about attending an event that will allow the media to directly tie Vanderboegh's style of anger to the gun rights movement!

Just my .02.

John

BARELY ILLEGAL wrote:

Skip Coryell, founder of the Second Amendment March,plans on speakingat the restore the Constitution rally/ Muster Outside DC 4-19-2010in the afternoon (after speaking at SAM in DC in the morning).

:celebrate

http://restoretheconstitution.wordpress.com/2010/03/25/rattling-the-second-amendment-saber/

http://muster4-19.ning.com/profile/SkipCoryell?xg_source=activity

I'll have a list of all of the featured speakers out shortly on the Restore the Constitution blog, as well as info about the permit, which the National Park Service just approved last week.

:celebrate

Hope to see a lot of y'all there!

peter nap · Mar 29, 2010

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jpierce wrote:

Skip is a great speaker and a good guy but despite his presence I still have to ask ...

Is Mike Vanderboegh still going to be a speaker at this event?

If so, I would encourage open carriers to attend the Second Amendment March in DC (unarmed of course) but to think long and hard about attending an event that will allow the media to directly tie Vanderboegh's style of anger to the gun rights movement!

Just my .02.

John

BARELY ILLEGAL wrote:

Skip Coryell, founder of the Second Amendment March,plans on speakingat the restore the Constitution rally/ Muster Outside DC 4-19-2010in the afternoon (after speaking at SAM in DC in the morning).

:celebrate

http://restoretheconstitution.wordpress.com/2010/03/25/rattling-the-second-amendment-saber/

http://muster4-19.ning.com/profile/SkipCoryell?xg_source=activity

I'll have a list of all of the featured speakers out shortly on the Restore the Constitution blog, as well as info about the permit, which the National Park Service just approved last week.

:celebrate

Hope to see a lot of y'all there!

Click to expand...

Proper OC rig for the event:lol:

longwatch · Mar 29, 2010

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Just use your head if you are going to OC a brick or 20.
[flash=480,385]http://www.youtube.com/v/q_l5baWSAg8&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash]

ed · Mar 30, 2010

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Jonesy wrote:

I am glad you said this, as it aligns very closely with my own thinking. I hope most here feel the same way. I want nothing to do with that "event".

me too.

peter nap · Mar 30, 2010

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ed wrote:

Jonesy wrote:

I am glad you said this, as it aligns very closely with my own thinking. I hope most here feel the same way. I want nothing to do with that "event".

Click to expand...

me too.

How gunowners say it is important
http://news.oldva.org/?p=16499

wylde007 · Mar 30, 2010

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And I'll say it again -

The criminal cabal in Washington has not listened to the voters. What's to say the next bunch of politically-motivated neophytes won't behave in the same manner?

When is enough "enough"? At what point do you apply the "Lemon Law" to government and admit that it can't be fixed? It's time for a new government, one that caters to the interests of the people under color of law and Constitutional limitation of vested authority?

And some of that thought process has trickled down to the state - that's where thugs like Marsh and Saslaw, who wouldn't make it on the big stage, play Off-Broadway showings of "abuse the system and circumvent the law".

peter nap · Mar 30, 2010

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wylde007 wrote:

And I'll say it again -

The criminal cabal in Washington has not listened to the voters. What's to say the next bunch of politically-motivated neophytes won't behave in the same manner?

When is enough "enough"? At what point do you apply the "Lemon Law" to government and admit that it can't be fixed? It's time for a new government, one that caters to the interests of the people under color of law and Constitutional limitation of vested authority?

And some of that thought process has trickled down to the state - that's where thugs like Marsh and Saslaw, who wouldn't make it on the big stage, play Off-Broadway showings of "abuse the system and circumvent the law".

Wylde, I'll say it again. I agree with everything you just said.

What you didn't say is what to do about it.

I've heard the little Mary's talk about throwing bricks, I've heard the Militia types talk about making a showing of force, I've heard a lot of talk that doesn't mean anything.

I've made fun of the Michigan Militia for years. Silly little bastards marching around and giving themselves rank, but every time they have a chance to take a stand, they hear their mothers calling.
They did it again the other day with that group of end of the worlders the Feds rounded up.

You could side up with one of the Klan groups or the Skinheads. They're plenty dangerous if you could stand to be around the bigots all day. I don't see a lot of changes made by them either though.

What tough talk will get you is:
Man arrested for Eric Cantor death threat
That really changed things, didn't it.

Until there is a way to make change that has a snowballs chance of working, I'll stick with trying to change things within the system. It's frustrating but a lot more effective than mustering the troops that aren't.

wylde007 · Mar 30, 2010

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peter nap wrote:

It's frustrating but a lot more effective than mustering the troops that aren't.

Where are Washington and Lee when we really need them?

peter nap · Mar 30, 2010

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wylde007 wrote:

peter nap wrote:

It's frustrating but a lot more effective than mustering the troops that aren't.

Click to expand...

Where are Washington and Lee when we really need them?

Amen!

Remember what the Good Roosevelt said. "Walk Softly And Carry A Big Stick"

You can open carry your pistol, properly holstered, at the Restore the Constitution rally on 4-19

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