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Thread: CC in Wake Forest parks

  1. #1
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    Wake Forest has an ordinance banning CC. It reads like this:

    Sec. 20-69. Carrying a concealed weapon.
    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a concealed weapon in local government buildings, their appurtenant premises and parks.
    My question to y'all is one of interpretation. Given a straightforward reading of the ordinance, does the phrase "and parks" stand alone or is it part of the "appurtenant premises" clause? In other words, do the parks where CC is banned have to be in proximity to the government buildings, or is this ordinance banning CC in all of Wake Forest parks?

    I'd love to hear some opinions on this. Another example of the unclear verbiage that NC law is well known for.

  2. #2
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    The way I would interpret this is that it covers ALL city-owned parks, not just the ones adjacent to or attached to government buildings.

    But IANAL...

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    I would interpret the ordinance to mean all city parks, but it doesn't really matter since that ordinance is illegal under NC law.

    NCGS 14-415.23 Statewide uniformity
    It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c), on local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks.
    Per the above statute, local governments are prohibited from making laws regarding carrying a concealed handgun. They are only allowed to pass an ordinance permitting the posting of a prohibition. The ordinance itself cannot make it illegal to carry, it can only allow the local government to post signs, which would then make it illegal to carry on those premises under NC statute 14-415.11(c).

    In other words, if there's no sign posted at the local government building, appurtenant premises, or park, then it's not illegal to CC there no matter what the ordinance says.

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    In contrast to the Wake Forest ordinance, here's the one from Apex:

    Sec. 14-17.2. Concealed weapons prohibited; town property; signage.
    (a) Posting of signs required. The town manager is hereby authorized and instructed to post conspicuous signage at appropriate locations on or within each park and each building or portion of a building owned, leased as lessee, operated, occupied, managed or controlled by the town, as well as the appurtenant premises to such buildings, indicating that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited therein.
    (b) Location of signs. Signs on buildings shall be visibly posted on the exterior of each entrance by which the general public can access the building. The town manager shall exercise discretion in determining the number and appropriate location of signs to be placed on or within appurtenant premises and parks.
    Sadly, the Wake Forest ordinance cites NCGS 14.415-23 as giving them the authority to make that ordinance, when in fact it explicitly prohibits them from doing so.

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    Hmm, fascinating. Thanks for the clarification. I can't say I've seen any signs posted against CC except at the Wake Forest library and at City Hall. Certainly none at any of the parks.

    Anyone have an idea of what would be involved in getting the city to change their language to be compliant with state law? This may be a situation where leaving well enough alone is the best option. I'd hate to do something to cause them to start putting up signs on the parks and greenways.

    But it is frustrating having an ordinance on the books that violates state law.

  6. #6
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    NCRonB wrote:
    I would interpret the ordinance to mean all city parks, but it doesn't really matter since that ordinance is illegal under NC law.

    NCGS 14-415.23 Statewide uniformity
    It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c), on local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks.
    *snip*

    In other words, if there's no sign posted at the local government building, appurtenant premises, or park, then it's not illegal to CC there no matter what the ordinance says.
    So as a new OC person myself, wouldn't this statute also still allow for OC since it explicitly states "... legally carrying a concealed handgun" ?

    I apologize if the question is a bit ignorant in nature, but this legal stuff is still somewhat new to me.

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