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Thread: Clarification of OC while in a car..

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    I have applied for my CHP, but would like to start OC'ing in the meantime. I have read various threads about the legalities of OC'ing in a car so I would like some clarification.

    Can I OC with the gun on my hip while driving my vehicle? I had read some people believed carrying the gun in a car is considered concealed carry regardless of if its easy to see on my hip.

    Thanks! (this is my first post)

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Jon34511 wrote:
    Can I OC with the gun on my hip while driving my vehicle?
    yes!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Jon34511 wrote:
    Can I OC with the gun on my hip while driving my vehicle?
    yes!
    I don't think it's as clear cut as that. If you've got deep bucket seats, and a large center console, or you're wearing it on a side towards the car door, an overzealous LEO & DA could make your life miserable. You might prevail in court, but it could be an expensive win...

    Now, if it's clearly visible, then I think you're pretty safe.

    roscoe13
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Jon34511 wrote:
    Can I OC with the gun on my hip while driving my vehicle? I had read some people believed carrying the gun in a car is considered concealed carry regardless of if its easy to see on my hip.
    You'll read lots of things on the internet.

    Pop Rocks and Soda will kill you.
    McDonalds Hamburgers contain worm meat.
    Bubble You contains Spider Effs.
    A leper was found working in a Chesterfield cigarette factory.

    and my favorite

    Private Property Rights don't apply to gun carry:P

    All Internet myths.


    But the truth about OC in a car is...
    Yes, you can wear it openly in a holster on your side.


    Now, if it's clearly visible, then I think you're pretty safe.
    +1

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    I see the law is unclear and I'd rather not be detained, arrested, and involved in a very expensive lawsuit over something simple. I guess I can wait until I get my CHP just to be on the safe side.

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    peter nap wrote:
    Jon34511 wrote:
    Can I OC with the gun on my hip while driving my vehicle? I had read some people believed carrying the gun in a car is considered concealed carry regardless of if its easy to see on my hip.
    You'll read lots of things on the internet.

    Pop Rocks and Soda will kill you.
    McDonalds Hamburgers contain worm meat.
    Bubble You contains Spider Effs.
    A leper was found working in a Chesterfield cigarette factory.

    and my favorite

    Private Property Rights don't apply to gun carry:P

    All Internet myths.


    But the truth about OC in a car is...
    Yes, you can wear it openly in a holster on your side.


    Now, if it's clearly visible, then I think you're pretty safe.
    +1
    Thats the problem though, if its on my left side (I'm a lefty) is it clearly visible from an officer's perspective? Probably not. I don't even own a holster for my right side, so thats out of the question. Can I just lay it in the passenger seat, is that considered "open carry?" techincally I'm not carrying it..see how I'm confused? haha

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Actually, you're OK on the right side or the left as long as it can be seen from the passenger window or the windshield.

    I don't carry in a belt holster in the car. It's uncomfortable although I generally carry larger guns than OC/CC'ers. and it wears holes in the seat.

    I either leave it on the seat contrary to what the safety minded people say ( I don't wear a seat belt either) or in the trucks and one of mu cars, I have cheap leg holsters attached to the headrest on the passenger side (Get left handed holsters so the butt of the gun is pointed at you).

    The law says "Hid from Common Observation" That's pretty clear.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Think about this as an example. Suppose you go to a restaurant and are seated with your strong side against a booth wall while OC'ing. Does this constitute concealed carry? No, it doesn't. So then how is a holstered gun in a car considered CC? Suppose you're left handed and carry on your left? Are right handed people Ok for OC'in a car but left handed people are not?

    You can OC in your car at your pleasure as long as you are not deliberately trying to conceal your sidearm. For example, something you do not want to do is this. You have your handgun on your front passenger seat in full visibility. You are stopped at a light and while waiting, you are checking a map for your destination. The light changes and the person behind you honks, causing you to cast the map aside and start moving. Now your map is covering your gun and guess what? It IS concealed in this case.

    So if your gun is in a holster which does not hide the gun from common observation and you are driving your car and not trying to hide your gun, you're fine.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Think about this as an example. Suppose you go to a restaurant and are seated with your strong side against a booth wall while OC'ing. Does this constitute concealed carry? No, it doesn't. So then how is a holstered gun in a car considered CC? Suppose you're left handed and carry on your left? Are right handed people Ok for OC'in a car but left handed people are not?


    Penalty flag, no citation....
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Think about this as an example. Suppose you go to a restaurant and are seated with your strong side against a booth wall while OC'ing. Does this constitute concealed carry? No, it doesn't. So then how is a holstered gun in a car considered CC? Suppose you're left handed and carry on your left? Are right handed people Ok for OC'in a car but left handed people are not?


    Penalty flag, no citation....
    What cite do you need to know it's covered up?
    Covered up is covered up. If he gets out of the car, it's still covered up, if he shifts position, it's still covered up.

  11. #11
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Think about this as an example. Suppose you go to a restaurant and are seated with your strong side against a booth wall while OC'ing. Does this constitute concealed carry? No, it doesn't. So then how is a holstered gun in a car considered CC? Suppose you're left handed and carry on your left? Are right handed people Ok for OC'in a car but left handed people are not?


    Penalty flag, no citation....
    Common sense doesn't require a cite.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    ProShooter wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Think about this as an example. Suppose you go to a restaurant and are seated with your strong side against a booth wall while OC'ing. Does this constitute concealed carry? No, it doesn't. So then how is a holstered gun in a car considered CC? Suppose you're left handed and carry on your left? Are right handed people Ok for OC'in a car but left handed people are not?


    Penalty flag, no citation....
    Common sense doesn't require a cite.
    Thanks.

    We could carry examples to the nth degree. Suppose you're waiting in line at a restaurant and your strong side is facing a wall in a semi-dark area. Is that concealed? In the context of not being visible (like maybe a hand or such), yes. Is it deliberate? Certainly. You are in the restaurant for dinner. But in the context of OC'ing a firearm, no. That would be ridiculous. If it was a violation, then anytime you turned and obstructed your gun's visibility, you'd be breaking the law.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Think about this as an example. Suppose you go to a restaurant and are seated with your strong side against a booth wall while OC'ing. Does this constitute concealed carry? No, it doesn't. So then how is a holstered gun in a car considered CC? Suppose you're left handed and carry on your left? Are right handed people Ok for OC'in a car but left handed people are not?


    Penalty flag, no citation....
    Common sense doesn't require a cite.
    Thanks.

    We could carry examples to the nth degree. Suppose you're waiting in line at a restaurant and your strong side is facing a wall in a semi-dark area. Is that concealed? In the context of not being visible (like maybe a hand or such), yes. Is it deliberate? Certainly. You are in the restaurant for dinner. But in the context of OC'ing a firearm, no. That would be ridiculous. If it was a violation, then anytime you turned and obstructed your gun's visibility, you'd be breaking the law.




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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Jon34511 wrote:
    I have applied for my CHP, but would like to start OC'ing in the meantime. I have read various threads about the legalities of OC'ing in a car so I would like some clarification.

    Can I OC with the gun on my hip while driving my vehicle? I had read some people believed carrying the gun in a car is considered concealed carry regardless of if its easy to see on my hip.

    Thanks! (this is my first post)
    Jon, welcome to the forum. This topic has also been discussed at nausium more than a few times.. while the search engin on this site is not the best.. seaching for keywords might yield you the answer your looking for. It will also take you on some tangents nowhere close to what you asked but you might learn something there as well.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    Jon34511 wrote:
    I have applied for my CHP, but would like to start OC'ing in the meantime. I have read various threads about the legalities of OC'ing in a car so I would like some clarification.

    Can I OC with the gun on my hip while driving my vehicle? I had read some people believed carrying the gun in a car is considered concealed carry regardless of if its easy to see on my hip.

    Thanks! (this is my first post)
    Jon, welcome to the forum. This topic has also been discussed at nausium more than a few times.. while the search engin on this site is not the best.. seaching for keywords might yield you the answer your looking for. It will also take you on some tangents nowhere close to what you asked but you might learn something there as well.
    Thanks Ed! I forgot my manners.

    Yes, welcome to the site Jon!

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    There are cops in some places who will arrest you for carrying a concealed weapon in a holster while in a car, on the theory that they couldn't see it when they were approaching the car. There is a federal case recently that says that having a concealed handgun permit is an affirmative defense, not a real exemption, too, by the way.

    The statute uses the phrase, "hidden from common observation". It is my opinion that this phrase means, "if you'd have looked, you'd have seen it", it doesn't mean that the gun has to be conspicuous. However, all the cop needs is probable cause to arrest, not the actual commission of a crime. He has to be able to come into court and recite facts that support his belief that the person he'd arrested was probably engaged in a crime. And that's good enough to survive a lawsuit.

    So I'd give you a qualified "yes", OC in a car is perfectly legal - but if a cop feels that your possession of a gun is a challenge to his or her manhood, you're probably going to end up in the pokey. You'll be found "not guilty", but it won't be fun, and you'll have to pay me (or someone like me) to represent you in court.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    user wrote:
    There are cops in some places who will arrest you for carrying a concealed weapon in a holster while in a car, on the theory that they couldn't see it when they were approaching the car. There is a federal case recently that says that having a concealed handgun permit is an affirmative defense, not a real exemption, too, by the way.

    The statute uses the phrase, "hidden from common observation". It is my opinion that this phrase means, "if you'd have looked, you'd have seen it", it doesn't mean that the gun has to be conspicuous. However, all the cop needs is probable cause to arrest, not the actual commission of a crime. He has to be able to come into court and recite facts that support his belief that the person he'd arrested was probably engaged in a crime. And that's good enough to survive a lawsuit.

    So I'd give you a qualified "yes", OC in a car is perfectly legal - but if a cop feels that your possession of a gun is a challenge to his or her manhood, you're probably going to end up in the pokey. You'll be found "not guilty", but it won't be fun, and you'll have to pay me (or someone like me) to represent you in court.
    Exactly what I don't want to be dealing with, so I come to my next question, how long does it take VB to issue a CHP? Are they super slow like Chesapeake or relatively quick? I'm on my third week, everyday I cross my fingers when I open the mailbox

    thanks for the various welcomes! I hope to come to one of the dinners soon and we can discuss this topic in person.

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    Jon34511 wrote:
    I see the law is unclear and I'd rather not be detained, arrested, and involved in a very expensive lawsuit over something simple. I guess I can wait until I get my CHP just to be on the safe side.
    A cheap nylon strap with a buckle can do wonders.

    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    Jon34511 wrote:
    I see the law is unclear and I'd rather not be detained, arrested, and involved in a very expensive lawsuit over something simple. I guess I can wait until I get my CHP just to be on the safe side.
    A cheap nylon strap with a buckle can do wonders.
    haha, that is awesome, where did you get the buckle from?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Thanks.

    We could carry examples to the nth degree. Suppose you're waiting in line at a restaurant and your strong side is facing a wall in a semi-dark area. Is that concealed? In the context of not being visible (like maybe a hand or such), yes. Is it deliberate? Certainly. You are in the restaurant for dinner. But in the context of OC'ing a firearm, no. That would be ridiculous. If it was a violation, then anytime you turned and obstructed your gun's visibility, you'd be breaking the law.
    If you take this to its logical conclusion, then any time you were in a room with people standing on both sides of you, you would be "concealing" it from one of them.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    leg holster. Sorry it took so long, had to clean the truck.:shock:

    na copyright again



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    AbNo wrote:
    Jon34511 wrote:
    I see the law is unclear and I'd rather not be detained, arrested, and involved in a very expensive lawsuit over something simple. I guess I can wait until I get my CHP just to be on the safe side.
    A cheap nylon strap with a buckle can do wonders.
    peter nap wrote:
    leg holster. Sorry it took so long, had to clean the truck.:shock:
    I didn't clean my Jeep. :-D
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    TFred wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Thanks.

    We could carry examples to the nth degree. Suppose you're waiting in line at a restaurant and your strong side is facing a wall in a semi-dark area. Is that concealed? In the context of not being visible (like maybe a hand or such), yes. Is it deliberate? Certainly. You are in the restaurant for dinner. But in the context of OC'ing a firearm, no. That would be ridiculous. If it was a violation, then anytime you turned and obstructed your gun's visibility, you'd be breaking the law.
    If you take this to its logical conclusion, then any time you were in a room with people standing on both sides of you, you would be "concealing" it from one of them.

    TFred
    hehe...that is what I call "the gun on the head" theory.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    AbNo wrote:
    AbNo
    wrote:
    Jon34511 wrote:
    I see the law is unclear and I'd rather not be detained, arrested, and involved in a very expensive lawsuit over something simple. I guess I can wait until I get my CHP just to be on the safe side.
    A cheap nylon strap with a buckle can do wonders.
    peter nap wrote:
    leg holster. Sorry it took so long, had to clean the truck.:shock:
    I didn't clean my Jeep. :-D
    I tried to take one without cleaning it up, but I couldn't see my gun

  25. #25
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Thanks.

    We could carry examples to the nth degree. Suppose you're waiting in line at a restaurant and your strong side is facing a wall in a semi-dark area. Is that concealed? In the context of not being visible (like maybe a hand or such), yes. Is it deliberate? Certainly. You are in the restaurant for dinner. But in the context of OC'ing a firearm, no. That would be ridiculous. If it was a violation, then anytime you turned and obstructed your gun's visibility, you'd be breaking the law.
    If you take this to its logical conclusion, then any time you were in a room with people standing on both sides of you, you would be "concealing" it from one of them.

    TFred
    Yep. Get's kinda crazy, doesn't it.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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