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Thread: Utah Valley University threatens open carrying student with arrest - state agenices back student!

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    http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-ut...,3562516.story

    SNIP

    OREM, Utah - A Utah Valley University student says he is within his rights openly displaying a gun while carrying a concealed gun permit, even while on campus. And that is what student Nick Moyes did Friday morning when he was stopped by the campus police and was told to put the gun away. As president of UVU's Republican Club, Moyes was hanging posters for an event when he was detained.

    "We are allowed to open carry on a college campus," said Moyes. "We are allowed to open carry or conceal carry -- it's our choice once we have a concealed firearm permit."

    UVU says it adheres to and supports this law, however there is nothing specifically set forth in the Utah statutes that allows a concealed firearm permit holder to carry a weapon openly on a college campus.

    UVU also cited a state law that says displaying a gun is not justified without threat and they interpret openly carrying as displaying.
    ----

    In actual video report, reporter says both Uh state agencies which shoul know, BCI and DPS, agree with this student!

    Go Utah!
    ---

    See also http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-gun.html?pg=2

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    But I understand he covered up though. Should have stood his ground.

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    Video on Youtube. It appears that the collegehas a policy of hiring high IQ folks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjaQJs8eoMk

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    Alright Utah OCDO members, we have 2 out-of-staters who have caught wind of the UVU incident and are pointing it out to us on our own thread. I thought the point of this forum was to discuss Utah OC stories. Well, I would say this UVU issue is the ultimate OC story. A fellow OCer was illegally detained and questioned and his rights violated when the UVU campus police made him cover up his gun. So, what are we going to do about it? It seems as though this topic has fallen by the wayside by the looks of tonight's posts. I would think more people would be all over this. Who else has contacted the UVU police chief? Who has contacted the UVU president? Who has contacted the Attorney General's office? I haven't done the latter, but plan to very soon, like tomorrow. Are we going to let this go or are we going to stand up for this fellow OCer and demand justice?


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    Maybe they're busy OCing instead of sitting in front of the computer?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Mike wrote:
    http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-ut...,3562516.story

    SNIP

    OREM, Utah - A Utah Valley University student says he is within his rights openly displaying a gun while carrying a concealed gun permit, even while on campus. And that is what student Nick Moyes did Friday morning when he was stopped by the campus police and was told to put the gun away. As president of UVU's Republican Club, Moyes was hanging posters for an event when he was detained.

    "We are allowed to open carry on a college campus," said Moyes. "We are allowed to open carry or conceal carry -- it's our choice once we have a concealed firearm permit."

    UVU says it adheres to and supports this law, however there is nothing specifically set forth in the Utah statutes that allows a concealed firearm permit holder to carry a weapon openly on a college campus.

    UVU also cited a state law that says displaying a gun is not justified without threat and they interpret openly carrying as displaying.
    ----

    In actual video report, reporter says both Uh state agencies which shoul know, BCI and DPS, agree with this student!

    Go Utah!
    ---

    See also http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-gun.html?pg=2
    Mike,

    I think the law they are refering to is this one....

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050600.htm

    76-10-506. Threatening with or using dangerous weapon in fight or quarrel.
    Every person, except those persons described in Section 76-10-503, who, not in necessary self defense in the presence of two or more persons, draws or exhibits any dangerous weapon in an angry and threatening manner or unlawfully uses the same in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.

    I thing UVU is trying to spread excessive amounts of "male bovine excrement" if they think this supports their claim!

    Warning : this is Long and I hope my train of thought on this can be followed. Links have been provided for the laws cited and quoted. Even though it might make for a shorter posting, I have NOT truncated the laws quoted so the reader may read the entire law not just the small portions referenced.

    Utah Concealed carry law ALLOWS concealment but does not require it and allows one to carry a fully loaded weapon in public.The Utah Gun Free School Zone law states that those with a Concealed Carry permit are exempt.

    There is NO UTAH law that says one CANNOT open carry a weapon.

    Here is the State Statute exempting certain individuals from weapons laws. Pay particualar attention to the portion in red

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_052300.htm

    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
    (a) a United States marshal;
    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
    (i) unloaded; and
    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.

    So an individual with a Concealed Carry Permit is Exempt from Subsections 76-10-504(1)and(2) and Section 76-10-505




    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050400.htm

    76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
    (1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
    (2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
    (3) A person who carries concealed a sawed-off shotgun or a sawed-off rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (4) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (5) Nothing in Subsection (1) or (2) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code of Utah, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm with a barrel length of four inches or greater as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
    (a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
    (b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.

    So a concealed Carry Permit holder MAY conceal and May carry a Loaded Weapon but is NOT required to do conceal.

    The next 2 statutes cover the State Legislators effort to claim COMPLETE ownership on the regulations of possession and carry of weapons. Pay particular attention to the red portion in Section 76-10-502.

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050000.htm

    76-10-500. Uniform law.
    (1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state. Except as specifically provided by state law, a citizen of the United States or a lawfully admitted alien shall not be:
    (a) prohibited from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping any firearm at his place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in his possession or lawfully under his control; or
    (b) required to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
    (2) This part is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities. All authority to regulate firearms shall be reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities. Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact or enforce any ordinance, regulation, or rule pertaining to firearms.


    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05a010200.htm

    53-5a-102. Uniform firearm laws.
    (1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right under Article I, Section 6 of the Utah Constitution, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform civil and criminal firearm laws throughout the state.
    (2) Except as specifically provided by state law, a local authority or state entity may not:
    (a) prohibit an individual from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping a firearm at the individual's place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in the individual's possession or lawfully under the individual's control; or
    (b) require an individual to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
    (3) In conjunction with Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons, this section is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities.
    (4) All authority to regulate firearms is reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities.
    (5) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property.
    (6) As used in this section:
    (a) "firearm" has the same meaning as defined in Subsection 76-10-501(9); and
    (b) "local authority or state entity" includes public school districts, public schools, and state institutions of higher education.
    (7) Nothing in this section restricts or expands private property rights.

    Next we have the statute allowing The State Board of Regents certain abilities (specifically by statute). Please focus on (2)(a)(i)and (ii) in red. Also note the next portion regarding "secure meeting rooms".


    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53B/htm/53B03_010300.htm

    53B-3-103. Power of board to adopt rules and enact regulations.
    (1) The board may enact regulations governing the conduct of university and college students, faculty, and employees.
    (2) (a) The board may:
    (i) enact and authorize higher education institutions to enact traffic, parking, and related regulations governing all individuals on campuses and other facilities owned or controlled by the institutions or the board; and
    (ii) acknowledging that the Legislature has the authority to regulate, by law, firearms at higher education institutions:
    (A) authorize higher education institutions to establish no more than one secure area at each institution as a hearing room as prescribed in Section 76-8-311.1, but not otherwise restrict the lawful possession or carrying of firearms; and
    (B) authorize a higher education institution to make a rule that allows a resident of a dormitory located at the institution to request only roommates who are not licensed to carry a concealed firearm under Section 53-5-704 or 53-5-705.
    (b) In addition to the requirements and penalty prescribed in Subsections 76-8-311.1(3), (4), (5), and (6), the board shall make rules to ensure that:
    (i) reasonable means such as mechanical, electronic, x-ray, or similar devices are used to detect firearms, ammunition, or dangerous weapons contained in the personal property of or on the person of any individual attempting to enter a secure area hearing room;
    (ii) an individual required or requested to attend a hearing in a secure area hearing room is notified in writing of the requirements related to entering a secured area hearing room under this Subsection (2)(b) and Section 76-8-311.1;
    (iii) the restriction of firearms, ammunition, or dangerous weapons in the secure area hearing room is in effect only during the time the secure area hearing room is in use for hearings and for a reasonable time before and after its use; and
    (iv) reasonable space limitations are applied to the secure area hearing room as warranted by the number of individuals involved in a typical hearing.
    (3) The board and institutions may enforce these rules and regulations in any reasonable manner, including the assessment of fees, fines, and forfeitures, the collection of which may be by withholding from moneys owed the violator, the imposition of probation, suspension, or expulsion from the institution, the revocation of privileges, the refusal to issue certificates, degrees, and diplomas, through judicial process or any reasonable combination of these alternatives

    So the State Legislature has not granted the State Board of Regents (they oversee ALL the State Colleges and Universities) anything related to firearms regulation or possession except in the limited area for a secure meeting area (if dorm-mates object to rooming with someone who has a concealed carry permit,there is a provision of accomodation).

    Here is the Utah State Gun Free School Zone law. Note the red section that delinates when this law does not apply. The UVU Cheif of Police in an email specified that he must approve ANYONE opencarrying a firearm on the campus for them to be legal (a false claim if one has a concealed carry permit, IMO).

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050505.htm

    76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
    (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
    (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
    (b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
    (3) This section does not apply if:
    (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
    (b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
    (c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
    (d) the possession is:
    (i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
    (ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
    (iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
    (4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.


    Nowhere in the following Law can I find a Requirement to Conceal or a requirement to Carry the concealed carry permit... ONLY THAT THE PERMIT MUST BE ISSUED. Note the portion in red.

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05_070400.htm

    53-5-704. Division duties -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- Certification for concealed firearms instructor -- Requirements for issuance -- Violation -- Denial, suspension, or revocation -- Appeal procedure.
    (1) (a) The division or its designated agent shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of age or older within 60 days after receiving an application, unless during the 60-day period the division finds proof that the applicant is not of good character.
    (b) The permit is valid throughout the state for five years, without restriction, except as otherwise provided by Section 53-5-710.
    (2) (a) An applicant satisfactorily demonstrates good character if the applicant:
    (i) has not been convicted of a felony;
    (ii) has not been convicted of a crime of violence;
    (iii) has not been convicted of an offense involving the use of alcohol;
    (iv) has not been convicted of an offense involving the unlawful use of narcotics or other controlled substances;
    (v) has not been convicted of an offense involving moral turpitude;
    (vi) has not been convicted of an offense involving domestic violence;
    (vii) has not been adjudicated by a state or federal court as mentally incompetent, unless the adjudication has been withdrawn or reversed; and
    (viii) is qualified to purchase and possess a firearm pursuant to Section 76-10-503 and federal law.
    (b) In assessing good character under Subsection (2)(a), the licensing authority shall consider mitigating circumstances.
    (3) (a) The division may deny, suspend, or revoke a concealed firearm permit if it has reasonable cause to believe that the applicant has been or is a danger to self or others as demonstrated by evidence, including:
    (i) past pattern of behavior involving unlawful violence or threats of unlawful violence;
    (ii) past participation in incidents involving unlawful violence or threats of unlawful violence; or
    (iii) conviction of an offense in violation of Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons.
    (b) The division may not deny, suspend, or revoke a concealed firearm permit solely for a single conviction for an infraction violation of Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons.
    (c) In determining whether the applicant has been or is a danger to self or others, the division may inspect:
    (i) expunged records of arrests and convictions of adults as provided in Section 77-18-15; and
    (ii) juvenile court records as provided in Section 78A-6-209.
    (d) (i) If a person granted a permit under this part has been charged with a crime of violence in any state, the division shall suspend the permit.
    (ii) Upon notice of the acquittal of the person charged, or notice of the charges having been dropped, the division shall immediately reinstate the suspended permit.
    (4) A former peace officer who departs full-time employment as a peace officer, in an honorable manner, shall be issued a concealed firearm permit within five years of that departure if the officer meets the requirements of this section.
    (5) Except as provided in Subsection (6), the licensing authority shall also require the

    applicant to provide:
    (a) the address of the applicant's permanent residence;
    (b) one recent dated photograph;
    (c) one set of fingerprints; and
    (d) evidence of general familiarity with the types of firearms to be concealed as defined in Subsection (7).
    (6) An applicant who is a law enforcement officer under Section 53-13-103 may provide a letter of good standing from the officer's commanding officer in place of the evidence required by Subsection (5)(d).
    (7) (a) General familiarity with the types of firearms to be concealed includes training in:
    (i) the safe loading, unloading, storage, and carrying of the types of firearms to be concealed; and
    (ii) current laws defining lawful use of a firearm by a private citizen, including lawful self-defense, use of force by a private citizen, including use of deadly force, transportation, and concealment.
    (b) Evidence of general familiarity with the types of firearms to be concealed may be satisfied by one of the following:
    (i) completion of a course of instruction conducted by a national, state, or local firearms training organization approved by the division;
    (ii) certification of general familiarity by a person who has been certified by the division, which may include a law enforcement officer, military or civilian firearms instructor, or hunter safety instructor; or
    (iii) equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in an organized shooting competition, law enforcement, or military service.
    (c) Instruction taken by a student under Subsection (7)(b) shall be in person and not through electronic means.
    (8) (a) An applicant for certification as a Utah concealed firearms instructor shall:
    (i) be at least 21 years of age;
    (ii) be currently eligible to possess a firearm under Section 76-10-503 and federal law;
    (iii) have a current National Rifle Association certification or its equivalent as determined by the division; and
    (iv) for certificates issued beginning July 1, 2006, have taken a course of instruction and passed a certification test as described in Subsection (8)(c).
    (b) An instructor's certification is valid for three years from the date of issuance, unless revoked by the division.
    (c) (i) In order to obtain initial certification or renew a certification, an instructor shall attend an instructional course and pass a test under the direction of the division.
    (ii) (A) Beginning May 1, 2006, the division shall provide or contract to provide the course referred to in Subsection (8)(c)(i) twice every year.
    (B) The course shall include instruction on current Utah law related to firearms, including concealed carry statutes and rules, and the use of deadly force by private citizens.
    (d) (i) Each applicant for certification under this Subsection (8) shall pay a fee of $50.00 at the time of application for initial certification.
    (ii) The renewal fee for the certificate is $25.
    (iii) The fees paid under Subsections (8)(d)(i) and (ii) may be used by the division as a
    dedicated credit to cover the cost incurred in maintaining and improving the instruction program required for concealed firearm instructors under this Subsection (8).
    (9) A certified concealed firearms instructor shall provide each of the instructor's students with the required course of instruction outline approved by the division.
    (10) (a) (i) A concealed firearms instructor is required to provide a signed certificate to a person successfully completing the offered course of instruction.
    (ii) The instructor shall sign the certificate with the exact name indicated on the instructor's certification issued by the division under Subsection (8).
    (iii) (A) The certificate shall also have affixed to it the instructor's official seal, which is the exclusive property of the instructor and may not be used by any other person.
    (B) The instructor shall destroy the seal upon revocation or expiration of the instructor's certification under Subsection (8).
    (C) The division shall determine the design and content of the seal to include at least the following:
    (I) the instructor's name as it appears on the instructor's certification;
    (II) the words "Utah Certified Concealed Firearms Instructor," "state of Utah," and "my certification expires on (the instructor's certification expiration date)"; and
    (III) the instructor's business or residence address.
    (D) The seal shall be affixed to each student certificate issued by the instructor in a manner that does not obscure or render illegible any information or signatures contained in the document.
    (b) The applicant shall provide the certificate to the division in compliance with Subsection (5)(d).
    (11) The division may deny, suspend, or revoke the certification of a concealed firearms instructor if it has reason to believe the applicant has:
    (a) become ineligible to possess a firearm under Section 76-10-503 or federal law; or
    (b) knowingly and willfully provided false information to the division.
    (12) A concealed firearms instructor has the same appeal rights as set forth in Subsection (15).
    (13) In providing instruction and issuing a permit under this part, the concealed firearms instructor and the licensing authority are not vicariously liable for damages caused by the permit holder.
    (14) An individual who knowingly and willfully provides false information on an application filed under this part is guilty of a class B misdemeanor, and the application may be denied, or the permit may be suspended or revoked.
    (15) (a) In the event of a denial, suspension, or revocation of a permit, the applicant may file a petition for review with the board within 60 days from the date the denial, suspension, or revocation is received by the applicant by certified mail, return receipt requested.
    (b) The denial of a permit shall be in writing and shall include the general reasons for the action.
    (c) If an applicant appeals the denial to the review board, the applicant may have access to the evidence upon which the denial is based in accordance with Title 63G, Chapter 2, Government Records Access and Management Act.
    (d) On appeal to the board, the agency has the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence.

    [line]

    (e) (i) Upon a ruling by the board on the appeal of a denial, the division shall issue a final order within 30 days stating the board's decision.
    (ii) The final order shall be in the form prescribed by Subsection 63G-4-203(1)(i).
    (iii) The final order is final agency action for purposes of judicial review under Section 63G-4-402.
    (16) The commissioner may make rules in accordance with Title 63G, Chapter 3, Utah Administrative Rulemaking Act, necessary to administer this chapter



    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05_071000.htm

    53-5-710. Cross-references to concealed firearm permit restrictions.
    A person with a permit to carry a concealed firearm may not carry a concealed firearm in the following locations:
    (1) any secure area prescribed in Section 76-10-523.5 in which firearms are prohibited and notice of the prohibition posted;
    (2) in any airport secure area as provided in Section 76-10-529; or
    (3) in any house of worship or in any private residence where dangerous weapons are prohibited as provided in Section 76-10-530.

    Also see

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_01_010500.htm

    76-1-105. Common law crimes abolished.
    Common law crimes are abolished and no conduct is a crime unless made so by this code, other applicable statute or ordinance

    So to put it all together....

    There is NO LAW IN UTAH MAKING OPEN CARRY ILLEGAL.

    The State legislature claimes control over this area (REGULATION OF FIREARMS)of law and has not given the State Board of Regents ANY authority to regulate firearms EXCEPT for a Secure meeting room (one per each campus) that can only be used during the hearing itself and for a short period of time before and after said meeting.

    Those with a Concealed carry permit MAY conceal but are not required to conceal. Universities are NOT listed in the specific areas which the state has limited the area in which one may conceal.

    So, Just as there is NO LAW SAYING ONE MAY WEAR A STRIPED SHIRT WITH PLAID PANTS one with a Concealed Carry permit may OPEN CARRYa loaded weapon in ANY public School or University in UTAH.

    Where did I go wrong on the logic here?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    You didn't go wrong on the logic. You hit the nail right on the head.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    I support the guy, he ought to get a group of 10 together with each walking in a different part of campus.

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    Remember the student "sit in" protests of the 196s?

    What would the modern analog be - an "open carry in?"

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    I am envious of Utah's Firearm Laws!

    I have read the Utah Firearm Laws that are posted on this Board and also all other Laws on Utah's State Legislature Website.

    If only my State were anywhere near as understanding as Utah is about this topic.

    My Home State of Record is Georgia.

    In Georgia, a Firearm on a College Campus, is a Felony, unless you are a Person exempt under Georgia Law 16-11-130. Make no mistake, Persons with the so called 'Permits' are not exempt.

    If I had the resources and ability to..., I would move to Utah!

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Remember the student "sit in" protests of the 196s?

    What would the modern analog be - an "open carry in?"
    It's about time someone other than me finally realizes for every action, there is an equal but opposite REaction.

    EVERYtime an OC'er is violated, MORE OC'ers appear.
    Maybe it's reverse psychology on the part of the government. They want so many OCers out there that they can't violate them all, and crime will plummet.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    It's about time someone other than me finally realizes for every action, there is an equal but opposite REaction.

    EVERYtime an OC'er is violated, MORE OC'ers appear.
    So, this would be MM's open carry alchemy equation?

  14. #14
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    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050505.htm

    76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
    (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
    (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
    (b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
    (3) This section does not apply if:
    (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
    (b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
    (c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
    (d) the possession is:
    (i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
    (ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
    (iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
    (4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.
    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_052300.htm

    Requoted for emphasis from UC 76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.

    (3) This section does not apply if:
    (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
    (b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
    (c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
    (d) the possession is:
    (i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
    (ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
    (iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).


    UC53-5-704 and 705 are the UTAH CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT LAWS

    Notice that the LawEnforcement exemption to carry a weapon in a UTAH School Zone is the SAME LAW THAT EXEMPTS CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT HOLDERS FROM CARRYING IN A UTAH PUBLIC SCHOOL OR UNIVERSITY!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Seems to me that if the Legislature felt the need to exempt LEOs from the School Zone law that without the exemption they wouldn't be able to legally OPEN CARRY A LOADED FIREARM IN A UTAH SCHOOL ZONE!!!!

    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Most of you guys are too young to remember, but "back in the day," a New York Muslim was roughed up by NYPD's "finest."
    Malcolm X started walking to the police station, by the time he arrived, he was not alone.
    What a shame OC'ers REFUSE to learn from others ................
    Hey man, be reasonable! Until there is nothing left to be reasonable about. Then, try to use 'being reasonable' as a way to get it all back....

    The cause can never be the solution.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  16. #16
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Fire mission! Hit this poll!

    http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=&nid=399

    Should students be allowed to openly carry firearms on campus?

    1. Yes 82%
    2. No 18%
    Total Votes: 233
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  17. #17
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    Follow through to the youtube of it, the guy is getting some pretty negative comments posted against him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjaQJs8eoMk

  18. #18
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    The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

    76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
    (1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
    (2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
    (3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
    In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.

  19. #19
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    rpyne wrote:
    The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

    76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
    (1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
    (2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
    (3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
    In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
    In my mind the statute quoted is the School's version of a generic Disorderly Conduct statute and as such won't stand if applied to someone doing nothing else but having an openly carried firearm in a holster on his person!

    Also as this is written in would apply on any property that the school happened to have a field trip to.... FOR A SCHOOL FUNCTION!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    JoeSparky wrote:
    rpyne wrote:
    The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

    76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
    (1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
    (2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
    (3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
    In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
    In my mind the statute quoted is the School's version of a generic Disorderly Conduct statute and as such won't stand if applied to someone doing nothing else but having an openly carried firearm in a holster on his person!

    Also as this is written in would apply on any property that the school happened to have a field trip to.... FOR A SCHOOL FUNCTION!
    Also, he hasn't disrupted anything... Plenty of students have told him they like it... I don't see any grounds for it.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  21. #21
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    ixtow wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    rpyne wrote:
    The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

    76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
    (1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
    (2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
    (3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
    In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
    In my mind the statute quoted is the School's version of a generic Disorderly Conduct statute and as such won't stand if applied to someone doing nothing else but having an openly carried firearm in a holster on his person!

    Also as this is written in would apply on any property that the school happened to have a field trip to.... FOR A SCHOOL FUNCTION!
    Also, he hasn't disrupted anything... Plenty of students have told him they like it... I don't see any grounds for it.
    Like I said, I doubt it would hold up in court, but according to Chief Brewer, it will get you cited or arrested and your firearm confiscated while you take the time and spend the money to fight it out.

  22. #22
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    style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
    Like I said, I doubt it would hold up in court, but according to Chief Brewer, it will get you cited or arrested and your firearm confiscated while you take the time and spend the money to fight it out.
    A serious student isn't going to take a chance on getting arrested when he has class, studying, and tests to worry about. If he failed out itmay cost him time, grade point average, repayment of loans or grants, etc.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    kwikrnu wrote:
    style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
    Like I said, I doubt it would hold up in court, but according to Chief Brewer, it will get you cited or arrested and your firearm confiscated while you take the time and spend the money to fight it out.
    A serious student isn't going to take a chance on getting arrested when he has class, studying, and tests to worry about. If he failed out itmay cost him time, grade point average, repayment of loans or grants, etc.
    Let the lawsuit that comes after the false arrest pay for that....
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  24. #24
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    Sounds like this would be a good test case: Do it again, get cited/arrested and gun confiscated as the sorry police chief Brewer says will be done, then sue the police for false arrest/citing. When the police end up costing the city big bucks whe they lose the lawsuit, maybe the mayor (or whoever) will put them in their place. Better yet, make the chiefpersonally pay the lawsuit award.

    The test case "subject" will then have plenty of money to do whatever he/she wants...even go to a school somewhere else in Utah that isn't as retarded as this one insists on being.

    I think we can expect these kinds of incidentsto happen fairly frequently, until OC is an established norm...very much like the Civil Rightsprotests of the 1960s where lots of people got arrested in the beginning of that movement, but later on, they got what they were protesting for.

    -- John D.

    P.S. Braveheart23C, my being an "out-of-stater," I hope you don't mind me butting in...we're all in this together.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    rpyne wrote:
    The one potential caveat is found in Utah Code 76-9-106. This is the violation that the UVU Police Chief threatened in his email response.

    76-9-106. Disrupting the operation of a school.
    (1) A person is guilty of disrupting the operation of a school if the person, after being asked to leave by a school official, remains on school property for the purpose of encouraging or creating an unreasonable and substantial disruption or risk of disruption of a class, activity, program, or other function of a public or private school.
    (2) For purposes of this section, "school property" includes property being used by a public or private school for a school function.
    (3) Disrupting the operation of a school is a class B misdemeanor.
    In light of the other laws on the books and the court decisions over the last ten years, I doubt that a court would find carrying a firearm without other threatening conduct a violation, but it has not been tested.
    So he was disrupting the operation of the school by hanging posters while what - carrying a legal, non-restricted tool?

    How is this "encouraging or creating" a substantial disruption?

    At least you don't have any "going to the terror of the public" laws for them to reach for.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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