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Thread: Podcasts of OCDO's John Pierce debates with Brady group's Hennigan & Helmke

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    I will be debating Paul Helmke from the Brady Campaign on Thursday from 2:10 - 2:45 EST on "To the Point" hosted by Warren Olney on NPR.

    --

    Here are recordings of John v. Hennigan on the Laura Ingraham show and John v. Hemke:

    Mirror of Todays Broadcasts:

    Laura Ingraham:

    MP3 - http://jaecomputing.com/Public/Starbucks_OC.mp3
    Open Source OGG - http://jaecomputing.com/Public/Starbucks_OC.ogg

    To the Point - NPR Segment- The Gun Control Segment starts around the 07:20 mark, John comes in around the 11:50 mark.:

    MP3 - http://jaecomputing.com/Public/TTP_OC.mp3

    Great work John! The Brady Bunch Guy practically destroyed himself though.

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.......Please post an audio clip if you can. I can't get NPR here in hawaii. Or at least a transcript. I think most all of us here would love to here it.

    Chase
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    MarlboroLts5150 wrote:
    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.......Please post an audio clip if you can. I can't get NPR here in hawaii. Or at least a transcript. I think most all of us here would love to here it.

    Chase
    http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/tp



    Click the "On Air" button at the top of the page. I think that'll do it.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Kick some tail John! I was on local radio recently. I pointed out that automobiles are registered, but they don't prevent drunk drivers, hit and runs, get away cars for bank robberies, theft. I pointed out that you only take a test once in your life to drive a car and then never have to ever again. The anti that was responding "gulp"
    Live Free or Die!

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    Is this going to be a live debate or taped? I have my doubts that NPR would air an intellectualmassacre of Helmke if they don't have to.

    Take no prisoners, John! Make him squeel! Make him cry like a baby!

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Is this going to be a live debate or taped? I have my doubts that NPR would air an intellectualmassacre of Helmke if they don't have to.

    Take no prisoners, John! Make him squeel! Make him cry like a baby!
    Well last week, Talk Of The Nation had a half-hour bit on McDonald v. Chicago, and it was, surprisingly, a very well balanced piece free of hyperbole and emotive ranting.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Per the OP -

    Tiger vs Wile E. Coyote; truth vs fiction; facts vs smoke and mirrors.

    At the end of the show I suspect that Herr Helmke will need more help than a Valium and box of band aids will afford him.

    Break a leg John.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    John, I've got one request.

    Since the Brady Brats motto is "Less Guns - Less Crime", See if you can get Helmke to explain why that's not working in Chicago. Ask him why Chicago, with the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation, has the highest violant crime rate.

    I have tried to get anti-gun supporters to respond to this query and none will attempt to.



    BTW, I take back those mean things I proposed earlier. That poor guy will be cutting his own throat every time he opens his mouth and spews another lie.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Kick his ass. It shouldn't be hard.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Thanks guys! I will try to incorporate those questions into the debate.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    +1

    I agree with TF16.

    I can never get a straightanswer to how the complete gun ban in D.C. or Chicago has lowered shootings.

    I'm a huge fan of asking anti-gunners unanswerable questions. If you could, (If the format provides the opportunity) could you ask Mr. Helmke something along the lines of the following questions:

    #1A) (What I'd really like to see Mr. Helmke answer) How is harassing a private business by hounding them to change their policy, passing a petition, and protesting outside of their businesses not considered "intimidation" while responsibly carrying a legal object the same as a police officer is?

    1) How does reliance upon the goodwill and altruism of a bloodthirsty criminal to obey a simple sign protect people?

    2) How does placing a sign requiring the peaceful compliance of its followers disarm violent criminals and not the peacefully compliant?

    3) Why is it considered "good" for police officers to protect their own lives with a firearm, yet "bad" for anyone else? (One of my favorites)

    4) Why does Mr. Helmke feel that requiring another human being to come running to risk their life after an incident happens is more responsible than seeking training to provide his own protection? (another favorite)

    5) How does diarming a law abiding citizen protect him from harm?

    6) Point out some individual names of folks in the past few weeks that have succesfully and legally protected themselves with a firearm. Ask him if he can provide the name of any individual and the gun law that saved them as a counter argument. Ever. Just one individual.

    7) Mention: Virginia Tech, University of Alabama, Northern Illinois, Ohio State. Ask him how these happened since guns are completely forbidden in these places. How do gun bans work again?

    8) Ask him if he knows whether the majority of murder victims are armed or unarmed. Ask him why he wants everyone in the category containingalmost 100% ofvictims.

    I'm 100% in your corner. I'm sure I echo everyone here when I say that I support you no matter how the debate turns out. I realize that these things can be "taken over" and sound bites can be easilymanipulated to fulfill an agenda. I'm confident that you'll make Mr Helmke appear like the blind fanatic he is. (He does an excellent job of that himself) Don't ever let him get you on the defensive. Keep him reeling. Make him answer for harrassing a private business. Make him defend being the intimidator.

  12. #12
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Superlite,

    Thank you so much for that!

    I do have to say that I have yet to have the media mis-quote me or edit something I have said to make it appear that I said something else (although the Daily Show piece hasn't aired yet ).

    I tend to think that generally the only bad publicity is what you make yourself.

    So long as we are focused on moving the ball forward and being law-abiding and responsible gun owners and supporting the rights of all Americans, I don't see how we can lose.


    John


    Superlite27 wrote:
    +1

    I'm 100% in your corner. I'm sure I echo everyone here when I say that I support you no matter how the debate turns out. I realize that these things can be "taken over" and sound bites can be easilymanipulated to fulfill an agenda. I'm confident that you'll make Mr Helmke appear like the blind fanatic he is. (He does an excellent job of that himself) Don't ever let him get you on the defensive. Keep him reeling. Make him answer for harrassing a private business. Make him defend being the intimidator.

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Is this going to be a live debate or taped? I have my doubts that NPR would air an intellectualmassacre of Helmke if they don't have to.

    Take no prisoners, John! Make him squeel! Make him cry like a baby!
    Make him squeaal like a pig.

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    Superlite...I love your points!:celebrate

    It always amazes me how the antis think that passing more laws and banning handgunswill somehowstop criminals, whom by definition do not obey the law in the first place, in their tracks.

    Last I checked, murder, rape, armed robbery, burglary, etc...are all illegal...yet it has NEVER deterredthe criminals in the least....NEVER!


    ETA: It should be entertaining, at the very least...Helmke couldn't debate his way out of a wet paper bag. Go get him John!

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    What I'd LOVE to hear is for someone to have Helmke swear an oath to tell the truth in the presence of a Notary Public (making his statements legally-binding) and then ask Helmke--point blank--if he owns any firearms, or if he now has or has ever possessed a license to carry a firearm. But you'd have to do that under oath for it to mean anything. Finding a Notary in DC shouldn't be too difficult though...

    Something else I'd like to hear is for someone to take on the whole "racist roots of gun control" issue with people like Helmke. I'd LOVE to hear how he would explain away the fact that EVERY gun control law ever enacted in the US stemmed from racist sentiments and yellow journalism.

    Ask him why he thinks that the lives of law-abiding poor people and minorities are less worthy of self defense than his own life, or the lives of people like Nancy Pelosi or Barbara Mikulsk or Chuck Shumer (all of whom have, or have had in the past, Concealed Carry Permits...)

    Ask him why cities like Baltimore, Chicago, DC and LA have such high gun-related violence when they have the most strict gun ownership laws in the nation. Ask him why New Hampshire--with what are arguable the least amount of restrictions--has some of the lowest violent crime statistics.

    When he brings up the fact that cities have 'diverse populations" while NH is more "culturally homogeneous", ask him why he blames crime on minorities.

    Ask him why he feels it necessary to punish the 97% of the population who are law-abiding, because of the criminal and sociopathic actions of those 3% who break the law. And ask him why he thinks that criminals who use guns in crime will suddenly decide that they need to start obeying any new gun control laws he'd like to impose?

    Ask him why he thinks that law-abiding citizens who live in these cities shouldn't be able to protect their families from the lawless predations of criminals. And ask him why states that his group labels as "backward" and "uneducated" like NH, VA, PA, NC, and MT seem to be able to trust their citizens with firearms. Ask him why places like DC, NY and MD--with some of the highest levels of education and average incomes in the nation--seem to believe their citizens are inherently untrustworthy with firearms, and should not be allowed to protect themselves, or even own firearms for sporting and recreation purposes...

    I'm sure nobody needs to remind you of this, but please keep it in mind--STAY ON TOPIC. Helmke and his ilk like to try and trip people up by constantly changing topic, jumping around from subject to subject, and throwing in non-sequitors and random statistics that have NO real bearing on what is being discussed. Keep him ON TOPIC, and every SINLGE time he tries this distraction tactic, you need to politely STOP the discussion, and CALL HIM OUT on his logical fallacies and statistical shenanigans.

    People like Helmke are sociopaths and have no shame, so it is impossible to embarrass him in his own lies, but you CAN show him for the lying, duplicitous, racist, illogical FUDD-monger he is.

    Every time he uses the phrase "the wrong kind of people", you STOP the conversation and ask if he means, like people who wear glasses (Pol Pot's wrong kinds of people) or African Americans (Baltimore, NC, DC, Chicago, and LA's "wrong kinds of people"), or people who are political dissenters (China, Germany, Iraq, Iran, or the USSR's "wrong kinds of people") or may he means Armenians (Turkey's "wrong kinds of people"), or maybe he means Jews (the "wrong kinds of people" in Poland according to Germany in the late 1930's), or perhaps he means people who aren't wealthy or politically connected (DC and Chicago's "wrong kinds of people"), or maybe he's referring to Italian and Irish immigrants (The NFA's "wrong kinds of people"), or MAYBE he's referring to Native Americans (the BLM, BIA and DOD's "wrong kinds of people"). Every time an "anti" uses the phrase "wrong kinds of people" we need to CALL THEM OUT on the racist, classist, and ultimately genocidal purpose of such justifications.

    Hold his feet to the fire of Truth, and make him squirm from the burning heat of his own sociopathic hatred of humanity.

    Give 'em hell, and best of luck! I'll be listening...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    I was just reading up a little on Paul Helmke...he claims to be a master debater. He master debates every chance he gets. In fact, he master debates at least 3 to 4 times a day !!!

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    fully_armed_biker wrote:
    I was just reading up a little on Paul Helmke...he claims to be a master debater. He master debates every chance he gets. In fact, he master debates at least 3 to 4 times a day !!!
    That's a little juvenile, but it's still chuckle-worthy...

    Every time I've heard Helmke attempt to debate a well-prepared opponent, he comes across as a stumbling fool, tripping on his own words, mumbling when cornered, jumping around to nonsensical topics, and ultimately resorting to ad hominem attacks when his flawed logic falls flat in the face of the truth.

    To call Paul Helmke a "master debater" is like calling Plaxico Burriss an expert handgun marksman, or Amy Bishop an expert at interpersonal relationships...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    I know Dreamer...but, when the shoe fits...

    That was really for the antis and Helmke himself...whom I'm sure probably has OCDO in his favorites on his browser so he can check up on us.



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    jpierce wrote:
    (although the Daily Show piece hasn't aired yeat ).



    Ah-ah-ah-ah? Wha...? When did this happen?

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    fully_armed_biker wrote:
    It always amazes me how the antis think that passing more laws and banning handgunsÂ*will somehowÂ*stop criminals, whom by definition do not obey the law in the first place, in their tracks.

    Last I checked, murder, rape, armed robbery, burglary, etc...are all illegal...yet it has NEVER deterredÂ*the criminals in the least....NEVER!Â*
    They don't. They know that they and their fellow criminals can only survive and prosper if all guns are banned out of their victims' hands.

    The only thing that deters crime is our guns, so they must be eliminated so WE can be eliminated.

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    N6ATF wrote:
    fully_armed_biker wrote:
    It always amazes me how the antis think that passing more laws and banning handgunswill somehowstop criminals, whom by definition do not obey the law in the first place, in their tracks.

    Last I checked, murder, rape, armed robbery, burglary, etc...are all illegal...yet it has NEVER deterredthe criminals in the least....NEVER!
    They don't. They know that they and their fellow criminals can only survive and prosper if all guns are banned out of their victims' hands.

    The only thing that deters crime is our guns, so they must be eliminated so WE can be eliminated.
    Yeah...You're right...I guess I should have phrased it, "It always amazes me when the antis expectsociety to believe..." My bad

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    sv51macross wrote:
    jpierce wrote:
    (although the Daily Show piece hasn't aired yeat ).



    Ah-ah-ah-ah? Wha...? When did this happen?
    I think this was but a jest. The daily show is well known for "interviews" where they then aire the "interview" with edited questions making the "response" sound completely hilarious.

    For instance:

    Actual interview: "Mr. Gun owner. Why is it good to carry a weapon to protect yourself from criminals?"

    Gun owner response: "Well, let's say one approaches youdemanding money. Youhave a chance of deterring them by simply revealing you are armed."

    What the Daily show aires is:

    Inserted interview question: "Mr. Gun owner. How do you feel about Girl Scouts selling cookies?"

    Gun owner response: "Well, let's say one approaches youdemanding money. Youhave a chance of deterring them by simply revealing you are armed."

    While amusing, the "interview-ees" usually become the "butt".

    At least I hope it was a jibe.

    It was, wasn't it?

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    fully_armed_biker wrote:
    I was just reading up a little on Paul Helmke...he claims to be a master debater. He master debates every chance he gets. In fact, he master debates at least 3 to 4 times a day !!!
    They don't call him "Hairy Helmet" for nothing .
    Bale da Hay

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    If he's such a damn great debater, why hasn't he ever won a debate yet? He just ducks and runs. He doesn't even engage in a debate. You ask, you talk, and he says a bunch of totally unrelated nonsense that is in no way in the same realm.... It's like better enunciated baby talk. Just a bunch of gibberish, then claims victory.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    OC issue is on right now on Laura Ingraham - John pierce v hennigan - listen in at http://radiotime.com/program/p_43476...aham_Show.aspx

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