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Thread: EVERYONE PLEASE READ

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Guys,

    We probably just won the most significant case involving gun rights in the last 200 years, have seen unprecedented advancement of gun rights over the last several decades against a concerted effort by anti-gun forces, and have been successful in starting the process of normalizing carry and making gun rights a non-partisan civil rights issue.

    We are winning in the legislatures, the judiciary and the courts of public opinion. It is a time of great joy for those of us who believe in civil rights! The struggles continue and will always do so but we should move forward happily knowing that we ARE making a difference!

    And yet still there are those who would see the cup as half empty and draining.

    I spend HOURS that I do not have every day dealing with the rantings of a few extremists who believe that the system is irretrievably broken and cannot be fixed or who espouse secession or any number of other fringe issues.

    These topics are NOT welcome here!!! The Republic is strong, the Constitution is sound and we should be happy today while planning for an even better tomorrow.

    There are other forums for fringe issues but they are not here and you are taking time away from actual progress!

    Thanks.


    John

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    Understand and agree. Thanks!
    Just because your paranoid doesn't mean their not out to get you. "Henry Kissinger" A wise man once told me to strive to own one of every type and caliber, and I'm doing my best to comply. JW

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    Please send this to MEM.

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    I'd rather read Mark Edward Marchiafava than NRA anything.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I agree with Pierce.

    This is a Nutnfancy video called "Don't Hasten the Day."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPVSE5jg_LY
    So it's lengthy, watch anyways.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 07-01-2010 at 04:05 AM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Cool The Trend Is Encouraging

    The trending in 2nd Amendment progress is encouraging and some of the gains in this past year were unthinkable even 5 years ago.

    McDonald v Chicago was a HUGE WIN. But we must beware. An anti-gun president could upset the current fragile majority of 2nd Amendment supporters in SCOTUS.

    Iowa was a "may issue" state with respect to concealed carry. Each Sheriff had absolute discretion and an applicant needed a reason to carry that would satisfy that Sheriff. Iowa did not recognize the permits of other States. After 1-1-2011, Iowa will be a "shall issue" State to any Iowa resident who qualifies. And, Iowa will then recognize the CCW permits of all other States.

    Arizona had a CCW permit, but on the 29th of July Arizona will join Vermont and Alaska as a Constitutional Carry State.

    And, Wisconsin's Governor (Dictator Doyle), realizing he was not electable, has stepped aside. We all remember the vote to override his last veto on a CCW Bill and the lone traitor who changed his vetop over-ride vote at the last minute. (He was not reelected.)

    I know many of you want full 2nd Amendment Rights immediately. I agree, McDonald v Chicago established the right to own firearms as a Civil Right, however, the Court did not address the ways in which States may make reasonable laws and restrictions. That will come in future decisions.

    Wisconsin is a "right denied" State. However, while I no longer live in Wisconsin, my heart is there and my friends in Wisconsin, you can do something immediately following the November elections and even before. Write to your representatives and ask where they stand on concealed carry and open carry. If you don't like the answer, write back and tell them that you will give money to their opponent.

    Remind them that less guns means more crime. Use the information on NRA's site and other sites to cite fact versus supposition. Get the legislators to get rid of that "feel good" nonsensical Wisconsin law about the 1000 foot perimiter School Gun Free Zone. Hell, Utah allows concealed carry in any school and there has not been one single incident - well, the cops are getting nervous about their jobs because on-campus crime at the University of Utah did a nose dive.

    When I still lived in Wisconsin I had a Utah non-resident CFP and carried open in my home and concealed when I traveled. On one occasion I spoke with Wisconsin Senator Neil Kedzie (Senator - Elkhorn area) and asked him why I was denied a right in my home State that I enjoyed in 30 other States. While Neil is very pro-2nd Amendment, he was floored by the question. He asked me to put that question to his committee when a new bill is brought up after Doyle is gone. I will gladly traevel the 3000 miles round-trip to do just that.

    The Battle will not be over until each State has Constitutional Carry (imagine the dread in Kommie-fornia and New York, Maryland, and New Jersey.
    Last edited by jpm84092; 07-24-2010 at 07:57 PM.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Thanks John! That needed to be said.

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    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    Well, OK. I'll save my rantings of world domination for my minions :P

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    How you can be so optimistic in the face of the EPA considering banning all lead ammunition is a mystery.

    http://www.ammoland.com/2010/08/25/e...al-ammunition/

    What good is the right to carry a gun if you can't also carry ammunition?

    Yeah, I know...there's still copper and steel...for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by canadian View Post
    How you can be so optimistic in the face of the EPA considering banning all lead ammunition is a mystery.

    http://www.ammoland.com/2010/08/25/e...al-ammunition/

    What good is the right to carry a gun if you can't also carry ammunition?

    Yeah, I know...there's still copper and steel...for now.
    The article said that Congress exempted ammunition from that law in 1976. As far as I know, Congress STILL makes the laws, NOT the EPA. It is a petition, not a law, not yet anyway, This Congress and Adminstration has said very little regarding guns and things related, especially since it is an election year. Don't get your feathers ruflled just yet.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    The article said that Congress exempted ammunition from that law in 1976. As far as I know, Congress STILL makes the laws, NOT the EPA.
    That's never stopped an agency from "regulating" something into illegality anyway.

    Fortunately though, it appears the EPA has backed down (for now). I imagine the hundreds of thousands of death threats had something to do with it, though I'm sure they will never admit it:

    http://politics.usnews.com/news/wash...-protests.html

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Old thread, but everything in it is still very relevant. Reminding everyone to stay focused is never a bad thing.

    Welcome to the forum, Avid.

    Not a bad bump, inadvertant as it might have been.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Old thread, but everything in it is still very relevant. Reminding everyone to stay focused is never a bad thing.

    Welcome to the forum, Avid.

    Not a bad bump, inadvertant as it might have been.
    it was inadvertant- did not see the post date until after I posted.

    Thanks for the warm welcome..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_Perdition View Post
    Well, OK. I'll save my rantings of world domination for my minions :P
    thats hilarious! your avatar looks like he is patiently waiting for your next lecture lol

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    I'm glad this thread was bumped, so I could have the opportunity to read it.

    The message certainly sounds relevent for 2011.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpierce View Post
    And yet still there are those who would see the cup as half empty and draining.
    John, I fear our fight is far from over. As evidenced by recent threads, the antis have elevated events to the global realm.

    Our fight is far from over. So long as a sinful human element remains on God's good Earth, I don't think it will ever be over.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    the fight should have nothing to do with federal/general government. the 2nd amendment does not apply to states and we do not want it to. we want local laws not national. there we can control it ourselves. the feds have no business in our gun laws at all. the sovereign states have that pervue. most of the state constitutions are very close to the federal, but leave the feds out of gun rights. they do not belong. the bill of rights only applies to federal government, not states and localities.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Huh?

    Originally you could be correct, BUT the 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS decision McDonald vs Chicago has applied the 2A directly to the states. As far as the 2A rights go the Feds are compelled to protect them from infringement from all local state and federal government entities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwolfs69 View Post
    the fight should have nothing to do with federal/general government. the 2nd amendment does not apply to states and we do not want it to. we want local laws not national. there we can control it ourselves. the feds have no business in our gun laws at all. the sovereign states have that pervue. most of the state constitutions are very close to the federal, but leave the feds out of gun rights. they do not belong. the bill of rights only applies to federal government, not states and localities.
    This from a fella who don't live in Illinois, Maryland, Hawaii, D.C., California.....

    Oh, come now, if those citizens wanted a RTKBA then they would vote for folks who would give a RTKBA to them. The feds should have nothing to do with what should be strictly a state issue.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  20. #20
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwolfs69 View Post
    the fight should have nothing to do with federal/general government. the 2nd amendment does not apply to states and we do not want it to. we want local laws not national. there we can control it ourselves. the feds have no business in our gun laws at all. the sovereign states have that pervue. most of the state constitutions are very close to the federal, but leave the feds out of gun rights. they do not belong. the bill of rights only applies to federal government, not states and localities.
    If the second amendment does not apply than neither do the 4th, 5th, 6th, 1st, etc.

    The bill of rights is part of what the states agreed to abide by when they became states. So yes it does apply as restrictions against the states.

    By your logic then the power to coin money could not be barred from the states then either.

    Part of the reason for the bill of rights is so that a citizen of one state would not have to worry about his rights being ignored as he traveled through the many states. He should be able to travel through all the states with his pistol and rifle in hand without fear of being stopped, arrested, etc. He does not give up his right to self-defense simply by crossing from one state into another.


    Using your logic again, if I wanted to 'plead the 5th' in one state and walked across the boarder into another state who wanted to charge me for what I was being accused of in the other state they could lock me up for not confessing. That protection was put into the bill of rights to protect me from all levels of government. The only exception I could find is the 1st amendment where it clearly says that "congress shall pass no law" so the first amendment seems to be the only one that is not protected for you against a state/local government.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 08-10-2012 at 10:45 AM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwolfs69 View Post
    the fight should have nothing to do with federal/general government. the 2nd amendment does not apply to states and we do not want it to. we want local laws not national. there we can control it ourselves. the feds have no business in our gun laws at all. the sovereign states have that pervue. most of the state constitutions are very close to the federal, but leave the feds out of gun rights. they do not belong. the bill of rights only applies to federal government, not states and localities.
    That was true for a time ... until the 14th amendment was passed because of states violating ex-slaves rights..

    Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorpo...Bill_of_Rights


    Plus our gun rights pre-dated out county's formation...as acknowledged in Heller
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-13-2012 at 04:31 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    .... The only exception I could find is the 1st amendment where it clearly says that "congress shall pass no law" so the first amendment seems to be the only one that is not protected for you against a state/local government.
    Except that SCOTUS has repeatedly said that the First Amendment does in fact apply against the States. Being the arbiters of what the law is, what they say goes until they change their mind.

    Understanding the law is not about reading what the law says, but what the courts say the law says. I think it is that way to assure paralegals a career in legal research.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by John Pierce; 08-15-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Except that SCOTUS has repeatedly said that the First Amendment does in fact apply against the States. Being the arbiters of what the law is, what they say goes until they change their mind.

    Understanding the law is not about reading what the law says, but what the courts say the law says. I think it is that way to assure paralegals a career in legal research.

    stay safe.
    If it takes a court to understand a law then the law is void. In this case, the 1st Amendment, is really very clear.

    The judges ruling the way they have just shows how corrupt they are.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    First, I want to apologize to John Pierce as I may have inadvertently posted on this forum some of which he deems unwelcome on his board. I did not read this thread until today. I will try my best to remember not to post such things here as much of my opinions today, and I am unapologetic about that aspect, somewhat resemble that which he describes.

    Thread:
    Upon reading http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...-wake-insider/ today, I was struck by this quote:
    "Afghans can't be insulted and they have no conflict resolution capability. The smallest thing can set them off."
    The article reminded me that our government, and I suspect any government, when encountering an unyielding group under their authority, will eventually accept that is simply the way it is and act to work around the issue within the framework of how much that group is willing to acquiesce. We will only lose as much freedom as we allow.

    If it takes a court to understand a law then the law is void.
    Makes sense... I like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    ... The judges ruling the way they have just shows how corrupt they are.
    It is not that they are corrupt.

    When dealing with local judges it must be understood right up front that many of these are individuals, with law degrees, individuals who could not successfully compete in the local and very competitive world of legal services available in the local county - so they - some how these inept individuals get elected as judges where far too many spend the balance or most of their working lives doing damage to their communities; in what's currently called "public service."

    If you want to find out what judges are really like at the higher levels have a good look at PRACTICING PRO SE found in the legal directory at the front of this forum.

    tyc

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