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Thread: Legalities of Medical Marijuana & CCW/background check forms.

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    Post Legalities of Medical Marijuana & CCW/background check forms.

    I had an acquaintance who was asking me about OC and CC, and we got to talking about the forms you fill out with a FFL where it says something about Drug treatment, etc.. and he said he would love to get his CCW as well as OC, but he thought that because he was a card carrying LEGAL, prescribed medical marijuana patient that he might be denied purchase or the CCW.

    I was/am stumped. I have no idea if being a Med. Maryjane patient would prevent him in this efforts. I mean I know that they don't ask you if you take insulin because you are diabetic.. so would they even ask re the marijuana? and whether they did or did not ask, would an honest answer keep him from buying/wearing/legally concealing a firearm??

    Anyone have any clue?

    (I was not sure exactly where to ask this.. but since the guy is here in NV with me, I figured I'd start here)

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    Interesting question. I'd like to see what everybody else thinks as well, but will offer my opinion. I can very much see the possibility of denied the purchase. Medical marijuana card or not, it is still illegal according to the federal government. All a medical marijuana card does legally is prevent the state or local government from prosecuting, it doesn't prevent the federal government from prosecuting, and by that stance, I could see how admitting to illegal activity (in the eyes of the federal government) might be grounds for denial in the background check.

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    The original message is a bit old but still worth discussing.

    I know someone that has both a CCW and medical marijuana card from the state of Nevada. A FFL might be different since MM is still not allowed by federal law...there is some tolerance, but still illegal.

    I the one case that I am familiar with he got a CCW a few months (maybe 3 or 4) before getting his MMC. Fingerprinting is required for both. And yes, he had to get fingerprinted twice and pay two FBI fees. If he had done them at exactly the same time it might have been different...though no one could give him a straight answer on that one.

    It is illegal to carry while "under the influence" of many substances including some prescription meds, marijuana, and alcohol. The problem, IMHO, with marijuana testing is that they're actually testing for the metabolites and not THC so it doesn't really show if you're currently impaired.

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    Kathy England wrote:
    The original message is a bit old but still worth discussing.
    The original message was posted today... at 2pm... :?

    I the one case that I am familiar with he got a CCW a few months (maybe 3 or 4) before getting his MMC.
    Might not be the same scenario as the OP was asking, though it does shed some hope. In effect, the person you knew got a Medical Marijuana card even though he already had a CCW. OP is wondering about the exact opposite. Having both is having both so it shouldn't make a different, but it still may.

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    gmijackso wrote:
    Kathy England wrote:
    The original message is a bit old but still worth discussing.
    The original message was posted today... at 2pm...
    Oops...I was looking at the joined date in 2006. Sometimes I can read.

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    Oh yeah, the NV MM program is supposed to be completely confidential and no one outside of the department should be able to access the information. Now if that policy is followed...who knows. I'm also not sure what confidentiality rights you sign away on the application.

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    A link to a third party discussion board on this specific topic. I can't vouch for them, and they may be no more of an authority than anyone here, but it's another avenue to look at.

    http://medicalmarijuanareferrals.com...#forumpost2300

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    A friend of mine had a MM and CCW...he was pulled over for only one license plate on his car...when they walked up to his car they smelled POT...the cop ask him if he was smoking...he said no but when the cop checked they found a joint on him...my friend told them he had a MM....They arrested him for DUI, towed his car and confiscated his gun which was in the car. He went to court..found guilty of DUI and lost his licence and CCW .... The gun is still at the police station waiting for him to clear things up......
    I dont know if it would be worth the hassle....


    Maybe he could use the defense from the Declaration of Independence. ... "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"….. lol



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    Kathy England wrote:
    The original message is a bit old but still worth discussing.

    I know someone that has both a CCW and medical marijuana card from the state of Nevada. A FFL might be different since MM is still not allowed by federal law...there is some tolerance, but still illegal.

    I the one case that I am familiar with he got a CCW a few months (maybe 3 or 4) before getting his MMC. Fingerprinting is required for both. And yes, he had to get fingerprinted twice and pay two FBI fees. If he had done them at exactly the same time it might have been different...though no one could give him a straight answer on that one.

    It is illegal to carry while "under the influence" of many substances including some prescription meds, marijuana, and alcohol. The problem, IMHO, with marijuana testing is that they're actually testing for the metabolites and not THC so it doesn't really show if you're currently impaired.
    This is why drug tests, like BAC tests, ought not to be sufficient for any conviction. They ought to have no more value than as corroborating evidence for an otherwise solid intoxication offense.

    Guy stumbling around? Don't need a BAC test, even as it is now.

    Guy coherent enough it takes a blood test to know he's been drinking? He's probably in better control than the cop. Why should he be prohibited from whatever?

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    Kathy England wrote:
    It is illegal to carry while "under the influence" of many substances including some prescription meds, marijuana, and alcohol.
    I believe you're OK up until .10 BAC in the state of Nevada, although I don't advise drinking and carrying.

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    Correct, 0.10 is the limit. The law is NRS 202.257



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    I am not a doctor but I think I have read that 0.10 computes to 1 beer consumed in 1 hr...Of course there is always exceptions to every rule...
    I cant remember when i couldn't drink 1 beer in 1 hr...lol......
    It is a very good idea not to carry a weapon and mix it with booze....

    Just my opinion...


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    I would never advocate carrying under the influence of ANY substance at a level of impairment, including Nyquil, but of course that level is subjective. My curiosities lie not in the legality of carrying while "medicated" per say, (which is a whole other ball of hair) but rather on the legality of obtaining or holding either a CCW permit, or just a simple FFL purchase.

    I agree that I can (and should be allowed to) carry in a bar, and I do so, on the rare occasion I might have reason to be in a bar these days... but then I don't drink, and I would not personally carry if I had imbibed anything more than one beer, or I suppose, one "hit" if I were so inclined...

    According to the "Dr. Reefer" Medical MJ link, (thanks Tim) you CAN hold a CCW and a MM card at the same time, but not a CDL... (which makes sense to me) but as I see it,that site is selling a service to get you through the application process.. (at $300, btw) and I am not sure I would just blindly take that as legal gospel. I guess the guy asking needs to talk with a Lawyer specifically about this issue.

    Thanks for the responses though, everyone.. Struck me as an interesting question.

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    Here is another thought .......
    On the ATF form 4473...
    question ; 11, sub part ;e.... "are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to MJ, etc..etc...or any other elegal substance????

    To answer this with a NO...would be an untruth...which under the federal law is punishable by 10 years or $250,000....

    under the law if you lie to a officer of the law it can be classified as a felony...

    so do you think the state would issue you a CCW, when by the letter of the law you would be ineligible in the eyes of the feds....


    maybe it would be simpler if you were to just quit tokin for a while, through the MM card away then do your CCW....

    But it is just my opinion....


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    I'm pretty sure one's sincere belief that one's actions' legality under state law is sufficient for those actions to disqualify as "unlawful use of" is sufficient to escape a charge of lying on the form.

    As I understand it, the standard for truthfulness on such forms is essentially "to the limits of your understanding" or "to the best of your ability".

    In essence, they'd have to prove you willfully lied, and the existence of state law rendering your behavior lawful in-state would make this very hard to prove.

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    And of course you are correct...Marshal....
    I have to say it would be a question for a lawyer...



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    On this forum, I've often made the argument that state preemption overrides local laws. The reason I don't feel the same way about the federal law overriding state law is the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution:

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    Obviously, the federal government has taken way more power than the Constitution allows, whether it be through blatant disregard for the 10th amendment, or more sneaky, by mandating state legislatures make changes to state law or face losing federal funding. The DUI law is a perfect example. See NRS 484.379. It appears twice because the first one applies due to federal law requiring it, and the other one reads it becomes effective (again) when the federal law is repealed.

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Nrs/NRS-4...l#NRS484Sec379

    As far as the NV CCW permit goes, there doesn't seem to be anything that prohibits also having a MM card. I wonder though whether the same is true for say, the UT or FL permits... But yes, if it's important enough to you, check with a lawyer.

    I'm willing to bet some of the free attorney services would be able to help you, or even if you had to pay an attorney for an hour service to write you a letter giving his opinion.

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    I think it should just be legalized and taxed, period.
    Or just grow it yourself without having to worry about getting thrown in jail.
    EDC=XDm40 16+1+16+16

    RED DRAGONS!!!!

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    doninvegas wrote:
    Here is another thought .......
    On the ATF form 4473...
    question ; 11, sub part ;e.... "are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to MJ, etc..etc...or any other elegal substance????

    To answer this with a NO...would be an untruth...which under the federal law is punishable by 10 years or $250,000....

    under the law if you lie to a officer of the law it can be classified as a felony...

    so do you think the state would issue you a CCW, when by the letter of the law you would be ineligible in the eyes of the feds....


    maybe it would be simpler if you were to just quit tokin for a while, through the MM card away then do your CCW....

    But it is just my opinion....
    Yep answering on paper can come and bite you later on in life. My best friend and I both joined the air force in 1976, he answered on paper that he had smoked pot but doesn't anymore. 2 years later when they stopped him randomly at the front gate of Nellis AFB and caught him with pot, they looked up his original enlistment papers, saw that he smoked pot at least 2 years ago and kick him out with a dishonorable for being a long time user.



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    doninvegas wrote:
    Here is another thought .......
    On the ATF form 4473...
    question ; 11, sub part ;e.... "are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to MJ, etc..etc...or any other elegal substance????

    To answer this with a NO...would be an untruth...which under the federal law is punishable by 10 years or $250,000....
    If he is a legal MM user, then the correct answer would be "no". The question asks if you are an "illegal user" of marijuana.

    There are many federal laws against marijuana: importing, distributing, dealing, and even possession... but unless someone can provide a cite to the contrary, I don't believe there is a federal law against simple personal use of marijuana.


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    If MM was legal and acceptable one should be able to get a state issued CDL, workers compensation, fight getting fired for smoking it, or hold a government job..or even stay out of jail if caught with MJ…..All I know is what happened to my friend last year as I mentioned above …He was arrested for DUI just because the cop smelled it, Lost his CCW and still don’t have his gun or DL back…Clark county is very harsh….and yes he had an atty….But they let him keep his MM card….
    I guess maybe some one should just give it a try and let us know?????

    just my opinion....


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    Question

    I already have a MMC and I have a question. I want to obtain a ccw but I am uneasy about the background check. Will my MMC show up in the check? Someone please answer this question for me. Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by .45lover View Post
    ....I have a question....
    First of all, it might be a good idea to, you know, talk about other people in your circumstance (rather than yourself), since you are skating around the edge of the law. You know -- not that I know -- but according to someone else, that's what people do on the internet when discussing behavior they'd rather not be tied to.

    But, you know, say you had a friend in your circumstance. Well, your friend is in a legal grey area. This very issue is currently working its way through the Oregon supreme court, but of course Oregon is not California.

    First of all, I'm not sure why your friend would have got the "card". Bad idea, IMHO. I would never advise going on a government list if there isn't a gun to your head. And in California the card isn't required to benefit from prop 215, SB420 and resulting case law. Maybe you can ask about taking your name off the list? I dunno if they can do that. A doctor's recommendation is confidential doctor-patient privilege, but who knows what confidentiality those cards have?

    As for whether the locally-issued ID cards are reported to sheriffs and police, I really have no idea. What county do you live in? There's a few where I would advise just going ahead and submit an application. Worst they're gonna do is deny you.
    Last edited by marshaul; 05-17-2011 at 01:30 AM.

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    Instead of arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, maybe we should just demand that Federal candidates promise to legalize medical marijuana.

    It's INSANE that the last three presidents have been sending ninjas to break down doors and kill people who do the same thing that they OPENLY ADMIT having done!

    It's INSANE that a doctor can prescribe the most dangerous and addictive "controlled substances" -- or even RAT POISON -- but not something which the Feds didn't even care about until the 1960s.

    When I can say that -- I don't use dope, I don't smoke, I don't drink alcohol, I don't even drink COFFEE -- how can anyone who does use those things think that the Dope War is a good thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    First of all, I'm not sure why your friend would have got the "card". Bad idea, IMHO. I would never advise going on a government list if there isn't a gun to your head.
    He's on one government list "MMC" and wants to get onto another government list "CFP."

    .45 lover, is this question about the California CC permit or an NV permit?

    For an NV permit here are the requirements:

    NRS 202.3657 Application for permit; eligibility; denial or revocation of permit.
    1. Any person who is a resident of this State may apply to the sheriff of the county in which he or she resides for a permit on a form prescribed by regulation of the Department. Any person who is not a resident of this State may apply to the sheriff of any county in this State for a permit on a form prescribed by regulation of the Department. Application forms for permits must be furnished by the sheriff of each county upon request.
    2. Except as otherwise provided in this section, the sheriff shall issue a permit for revolvers, one or more specific semiautomatic firearms, or for revolvers and one or more specific semiautomatic firearms, as applicable, to any person who is qualified to possess the firearm or firearms to which the application pertains under state and federal law, who submits an application in accordance with the provisions of this section and who:
    (a) Is 21 years of age or older;
    (b) Is not prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to NRS 202.360; and
    (c) Demonstrates competence with revolvers, each specific semiautomatic firearm to which the application pertains, or revolvers and each such semiautomatic firearm, as applicable, by presenting a certificate or other documentation to the sheriff which shows that the applicant:
    (1) Successfully completed a course in firearm safety approved by a sheriff in this State; or
    (2) Successfully completed a course in firearm safety offered by a federal, state or local law enforcement agency, community college, university or national organization that certifies instructors in firearm safety.
    Such a course must include instruction in the use of revolvers, each semiautomatic firearm to which the application pertains, or revolvers and each such semiautomatic firearm and in the laws of this State relating to the use of a firearm. A sheriff may not approve a course in firearm safety pursuant to subparagraph (1) unless the sheriff determines that the course meets any standards that are established by the Nevada Sheriffs’ and Chiefs’ Association or, if the Nevada Sheriffs’ and Chiefs’ Association ceases to exist, its legal successor.
    3. The sheriff shall deny an application or revoke a permit if the sheriff determines that the applicant or permittee:
    (a) Has an outstanding warrant for his or her arrest.
    (b) Has been judicially declared incompetent or insane.
    (c) Has been voluntarily or involuntarily admitted to a mental health facility during the immediately preceding 5 years.
    (d) Has habitually used intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired. For the purposes of this paragraph, it is presumed that a person has so used intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance if, during the immediately preceding 5 years, the person has been:
    (1) Convicted of violating the provisions of NRS 484C.110; or
    (2) Committed for treatment pursuant to NRS 458.290 to 458.350, inclusive.
    (e) Has been convicted of a crime involving the use or threatened use of force or violence punishable as a misdemeanor under the laws of this or any other state, or a territory or possession of the United States at any time during the immediately preceding 3 years.
    (f) Has been convicted of a felony in this State or under the laws of any state, territory or possession of the United States.
    (g) Has been convicted of a crime involving domestic violence or stalking, or is currently subject to a restraining order, injunction or other order for protection against domestic violence.
    (h) Is currently on parole or probation from a conviction obtained in this State or in any other state or territory or possession of the United States.
    (i) Has, within the immediately preceding 5 years, been subject to any requirements imposed by a court of this State or of any other state or territory or possession of the United States, as a condition to the court’s:
    (1) Withholding of the entry of judgment for a conviction of a felony; or
    (2) Suspension of sentence for the conviction of a felony.
    (j) Has made a false statement on any application for a permit or for the renewal of a permit.
    4. The sheriff may deny an application or revoke a permit if the sheriff receives a sworn affidavit stating articulable facts based upon personal knowledge from any natural person who is 18 years of age or older that the applicant or permittee has or may have committed an offense or engaged in any other activity specified in subsection 3 which would preclude the issuance of a permit to the applicant or require the revocation of a permit pursuant to this section.
    5. If the sheriff receives notification submitted by a court or law enforcement agency of this or any other state, the United States or a territory or possession of the United States that a permittee or an applicant for a permit has been charged with a crime involving the use or threatened use of force or violence, the conviction for which would require the revocation of a permit or preclude the issuance of a permit to the applicant pursuant to this section, the sheriff shall suspend the person’s permit or the processing of the person’s application until the final disposition of the charges against the person. If a permittee is acquitted of the charges, or if the charges are dropped, the sheriff shall restore his or her permit without imposing a fee.
    6. An application submitted pursuant to this section must be completed and signed under oath by the applicant. The applicant’s signature must be witnessed by an employee of the sheriff or notarized by a notary public. The application must include:
    (a) The name, address, place and date of birth, social security number, occupation and employer of the applicant and any other names used by the applicant;
    (b) A complete set of the applicant’s fingerprints taken by the sheriff or his or her agent;
    (c) A front-view colored photograph of the applicant taken by the sheriff or his or her agent;
    (d) If the applicant is a resident of this State, the driver’s license number or identification card number of the applicant issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles;
    (e) If the applicant is not a resident of this State, the driver’s license number or identification card number of the applicant issued by another state or jurisdiction;
    (f) The make, model and caliber of each semiautomatic firearm to which the application pertains, if any;
    (g) Whether the application pertains to revolvers;
    (h) A nonrefundable fee in the amount necessary to obtain the report required pursuant to subsection 1 of NRS 202.366; and
    (i) A nonrefundable fee set by the sheriff not to exceed $60.
    (Added to NRS by 1995, 2721; A 1997, 1175; 2001, 612, 618, 2579; 2003, 8, 11; 2007, 3151
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 05-17-2011 at 12:22 PM.

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