Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 103

Thread: Resisting an unlawful arrest

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wayne, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    15

    Post imported post

    I saw a passage in one of the other topics about the right to resist an unlawful arrest. Just wondering how true this is ( not that it shouldn't be true). Is there literature on this subject somewhere? Is there any case law? Or is this just standing up for your rights from an unlawful arrest? Just wondering if any cases have been documented on this? I hope this would never have to happen to me or anyone else here, just curious on the subject!!!

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544

  3. #3
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772

    Post imported post

    http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

    Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest]
    “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”
    “An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.
    “When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.
    “These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.
    “An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).
    “Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).
    “Story affirmed the right of self-defense by persons held illegally. In his own writings, he had admitted that ‘a situation could arise in which the checks-and-balances principle ceased to work and the various branches of government concurred in a gross usurpation.’ There would be no usual remedy by changing the law or passing an amendment to the Constitution, should the oppressed party be a minority. Story concluded, ‘If there be any remedy at all ... it is a remedy never provided for by human institutions.’ That was the ‘ultimate right of all human beings in extreme cases to resist oppression, and to apply force against ruinous injustice.’” (From Mutiny on the Amistad by Howard Jones, Oxford University Press, 1987, an account of the reading of the decision in the case by Justice Joseph Story of the Supreme Court.
    As for grounds for arrest: “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)

  4. #4
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772

    Post imported post

    Damn...you quick Ziggy!

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wayne, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    15

    Post imported post

    wow...thanks guys...that didn't take long!!!

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    WOW!

    Thats good stuff, hopefully it will never happen. Be careful with this one y'all.

    Any Ideas on how to get this information to an attorney from inside the jail if this were to take place?

  7. #7
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    stainless1911 wrote:
    Any Ideas on how to get this information to an attorney from inside the jail if this were to take place?
    The best way to handle this one is not to do it.

    Resisting an unlawful arrest, especially for us, would be political suicide. It could very easily result in OCing being banned if someone here was stupid enough to shoot it out with the cops.

    Not to mention literal suicide, since the police would probably kill anyone who tried that. 5 cops or more wearing body armor WILL defeat one guy with a sidearm.

    It is a subject that frankly has no place here. Anyone who advocates physically resisting police actions that don't put lives in danger, in my opinion, should be banned from this forum. Furthermore, discussing the ins and outs of it doesn't seem to serve much purpose. I hope that this thread will be locked soon.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  8. #8
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772

    Post imported post

    None of us are advocating that at all. Even the OP states he was just curious. Info is never dangerous....how it is put to use is.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Wayne, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    15

    Post imported post

    my question didn't have to apply to OCing. it was just a broad question with no intentions behind it!!!!

  10. #10
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    The Open Carry movement and us OCer's are hated enough without bringing more hate upon ourselves.

    I FULLY understand the ability to talk about things here but all it does is give ammo to those that wish bad things for us.

    I can just hear the LEO's talking about this "You mean those crazya$$, John Wayne wanna be OCer's are talking about shooting cops now?"

    Can you smell what I'm stepping in?

    Take the discussion of physically resisting arrest by use of deadly force elsewhere please.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    I support this discussion.

    Michigander has valid points, but censorship is not the right answer. Anyone responsible enough to exercise this inalienable right of ours should have the good sense to use this information properly. But if SHTF, i.e. remember Katrina, then this information may well serve to save lives on both sides, as well as serve to protect the constitutions and rights to OC that are included in them.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    dougwg wrote:
    The Open Carry movement and us OCer's are hated enough without bringing I can just hear the LEO's talking about this "You mean those crazya$$, John Wayne wanna be OCer's are talking about shooting cops now?"
    I get you doug, but as I recall, they started talking about shooting at us first.

  13. #13
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    IT"S NOT CENSORSHIP IF THE PERSON SHUTS UP ON THEIR OWN.

    I asked nicely and gave reasons why I asked.

  14. #14
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    stainless1911 wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    The Open Carry movement and us OCer's are hated enough without bringing I can just hear the LEO's talking about this "You mean those crazya$$, John Wayne wanna be OCer's are talking about shooting cops now?"
    I get you doug, but as I recall, they started talking about shooting at us first.
    Are you ******** me?

    "But mom he hit me first"

    Really, you're going to go THERE?

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    Nah, just sayin'

  16. #16
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    942

    Post imported post

    Yea, that's all we need is LEO to be against OC here in MI....oh, wait....

    Not saying your wrong Doug, I can completely see where your coming from. Big picture, perception is reality and all that jizz, er jazz.

    I guess I see no real harm in the discussion, especially when you have the intellects actually saying and spelling out how bad something like this could be for OC in general. I dunno, I see no harm in the discussion, here or anywhere else.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    31

    Post imported post

    The discussion was NOT initiatedas a means toshoot police, it was initiated about the LEGAL rights of free American citizenstoresist UNLAWFUL, UNconstitutional arrest. The COURTS have stated that, in certain circumstances, resisting UNlawful arrest with deadly force is justified. I would think that the discussion of the legal rights of American citizens is EXACTLY what this forum is about.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Macomb County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    I would never suggest anyone to resist and unlawful arrest. It's a very bad idea with one exception. Let me explain. The best way to resist an unlawful arrest is so do it by using the legal system not physical violence. Now the exception I was talking about is if while being arrested you felt your life was in jeopardy then just like any criminal situation where you can defend yourself you can defend yourself using lethal force. It also wouldn't be the first time it was necessary against a police officer. The police are just like any other group of people and some of them are criminals and do criminal acts. Don't read more in to this then what I stated which was pretty clear.

    I carry my lawyers card with several other others on it laminated on me 24x7 in the event something ever were to happen. Being prepared is half the battle to getting things started.

    Mike

  19. #19
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772

    Post imported post

    You guys are unreal.....the only discussion is the one YOU guys have been making. The OP asked a question and two of us gave him a cite to answer it. End of posts!
    We did not initiate any discussion at all. If you all don't think it's appropriate... shut up and leave it alone.

    ETA: As stated, are there questions on this forum that are NOT supposed to be asked/answered.
    If so maybe one of you should make up a list of the BAD questions and post it so we don't scare everybody.

  20. #20
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Allegan co Michigan, USA
    Posts
    345

    Post imported post

    Michigander wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    Any Ideas on how to get this information to an attorney from inside the jail if this were to take place?
    The best way to handle this one is not to do it.

    Resisting an unlawful arrest, especially for us, would be political suicide. It could very easily result in OCing being banned if someone here was stupid enough to shoot it out with the cops.

    Not to mention literal suicide, since the police would probably kill anyone who tried that. 5 cops or more wearing body armor WILL defeat one guy with a sidearm.

    It is a subject that frankly has no place here. Anyone who advocates physically resisting police actions that don't put lives in danger, in my opinion, should be banned from this forum. Furthermore, discussing the ins and outs of it doesn't seem to serve much purpose. I hope that this thread will be locked soon.
    You should ask some of the surviving Jews ofEastern Europe how they feel about unlawful arrest.

  21. #21
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    WARCHILD wrote:
    You guys are unreal.....the only discussion is the one YOU guys have been making. The OP asked a question and two of us gave him a cite to answer it. End of posts!
    We did not initiate any discussion at all. If you all don't think it's appropriate... shut up and leave it alone.

    ETA: As stated, are there questions on this forum that are NOT supposed to be asked/answered.
    If so maybe one of you should make up a list of the BAD questions and post it so we don't scare everybody.
    This coming from Mr. more flies with Honey?

    It's legal to talk about ass rapping poodles too or maybe necrophilia would be a better topic.

  22. #22
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772

    Post imported post

    It wasn't a discussion Doug, till you guys turned it into one. None of us have advocated it, the OP simply asked a question for cryin' out loud.
    And if you want to call being courteous and being polite; flies & honey, then yes, as always I do advocate that fully.
    This is a good example of what I have said has gone wrong with this forum. Ask a valid, simple question and if it's not within the "NORM", or the forum "Governors" don't agree with it.....it shouldn't be asked?
    Doesn't a "Question" fall within the confines of the 1st? Or are we sinking to the judicial level of thinking: only recognize the rights that suit us at the time.

    I guess my first instinct was right, little has changed and I will fade back into the bushes so as not to offend anyone.

    This is truly sickening

  23. #23
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    You're going over board and exaggerating what I said.

    btw: the 1st amendment only restricts the Government from restricting free speech and has no barring on privately run internet message boards.

    But like I said, no body has restricted anything, it was a simple request.

  24. #24
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772

    Post imported post

    This coming from Mr. more flies with Honey?

    It's legal to talk about ass rapping poodles too or maybe necrophilia would be a better topic.

    This is included in your "simple request", and your reasoning for this comment is justified how?
    Are your cited topics firearm related?

    Thank you for making my point. If it's not an acceptable question no matter the topic, it shouldn't be asked on this forum...

    As my daughter says:........WHATEVER!

    Carry on discussing the discussion you don't want to discuss.


  25. #25
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Police State, USA
    Posts
    1,270

    Post imported post

    Oh come on, children.

    Yes, you're being called children by a barely-adult 21 year old kid.

    EVERYONE has blown EVERYTHING out of proportion here.

    I see two things that happened:

    One, a question was asked, and then answered.

    Two, it was suggested that, since a large number of police departments monitor this site, and may get the wrong idea, and I will reiterate suggested, that the topic be discussed through another medium if it was felt that further discussion was warranted.

    It is pretty straightforward. Chill the **** out.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •