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Resisting an unlawful arrest

dougwg

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WARCHILD wrote:
You guys are unreal.....the only discussion is the one YOU guys have been making. The OP asked a question and two of us gave him a cite to answer it. End of posts!
We did not initiate any discussion at all. If you all don't think it's appropriate... shut up and leave it alone.

ETA: As stated, are there questions on this forum that are NOT supposed to be asked/answered.
If so maybe one of you should make up a list of the BAD questions and post it so we don't scare everybody.:banghead::cuss:

This coming from Mr. more flies with Honey?

It's legal to talk about ass rapping poodles too or maybe necrophilia would be a better topic.
 

WARCHILD

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It wasn't a discussion Doug, till you guys turned it into one. None of us have advocated it, the OP simply asked a question for cryin' out loud.
And if you want to call being courteous and being polite; flies & honey, then yes, as always I do advocate that fully.
This is a good example of what I have said has gone wrong with this forum. Ask a valid, simple question and if it's not within the "NORM", or the forum "Governors" don't agree with it.....it shouldn't be asked?
Doesn't a "Question" fall within the confines of the 1st? Or are we sinking to the judicial level of thinking: only recognize the rights that suit us at the time.

I guess my first instinct was right, little has changed and I will fade back into the bushes so as not to offend anyone.

This is truly sickening:uhoh:
 

dougwg

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You're going over board and exaggerating what I said.

btw: the 1st amendment only restricts the Government from restricting free speech and has no barring on privately run internet message boards.

But like I said, no body has restricted anything, it was a simple request.
 

WARCHILD

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This coming from Mr. more flies with Honey?

It's legal to talk about ass rapping poodles too or maybe necrophilia would be a better topic.

This is included in your "simple request", and your reasoning for this comment is justified how?
Are your cited topics firearm related?

Thank you for making my point. If it's not an acceptable question no matter the topic, it shouldn't be asked on this forum...

As my daughter says:........WHATEVER!:banghead::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

Carry on discussing the discussion you don't want to discuss.
 

Evil Creamsicle

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Oh come on, children.

Yes, you're being called children by a barely-adult 21 year old kid.

EVERYONE has blown EVERYTHING out of proportion here.

I see two things that happened:

One, a question was asked, and then answered.

Two, it was suggested that, since a large number of police departments monitor this site, and may get the wrong idea, and I will reiterate suggested, that the topic be discussed through another medium if it was felt that further discussion was warranted.

It is pretty straightforward. Chill the **** out.
 

BreakingTheMold

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“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306.



I think makes it entirely situational, if there warrant has a typo, Call your lawyer, that's the best resistance at that point.

The situation (don't remember where and I've been looking for the cite) where officers abducted a teenage girl from her front yard. They were looking for a house with white female alleged prostitutes and instead they "arrested" this girl and searched her parents home without a warrant.

The officers were in plain clothes at the time, they easily could have been mistaken for kidnappers.

The girl they "arrested" went kicking and screaming, as would be expected from any young teen early in the morning. The police later came to her school to arrest her again for resisting her false arrest.


That is all from memory and I can still not find the cite, but it has been posted on OCDO in reference to this same topic. That's when I first heard of resisting false arrest. I'll post the cite ASAP.
 

WARCHILD

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I will reiterate suggested, that the topic be discussed through another medium

There was no discussion Evil, he asked a question; we answered, that's it.
The discussion was actually started by michigander stating we shouldn't discuss it. Now here it is 2 pages later of a discussion that didn't want to be discussed.
What other medium should this question have been asked, yeah, PM maybe but who would have thought so much of a $hit storm would have resulted from it.
Simple question, simple answer....blown out of proportion by some who didn't like it and didn't want to discuss it....yes you're right....very childish.
 

NicF

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wow!!! Didn't think so many people would get their panties in a bunch over a simple question. And that's all that it was, a question. I never asked how to do anything or even implied that i was going to do this or push anyone else to do this. I didn't realize that there are certain rights that we have that aren't to be discussed in this forum. I simply asked a question out of curiosity.

I have learned a lot in this forum over the last couple of months. And, I have no intentions of trying to reverse any of the progress that has been made by you fine people. I COMPLETELY support all of the advancements that this group of people have made and have no intentions of jeopardizing any of it.

But, I think a couple of you have also over reacted to a simple question. Maybe I'll just stick to CCing and leave the OCing to the rest of ya. I think I saw less reaction to the bulls$$t that Hombre1 used to say!!!
 

mikestilly

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It's a great question and if you weed through the cry babies you received some very good answers.

Just filter through the cry babies and keep on keeping it on. Was a good question in my opinion. I feel is someone doesnt like a question then they can go STFU dont look at the thread and move on to another one.
 

Big Gay Al

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NicF wrote:
But, I think a couple of you have also over reacted to a simple question. Maybe I'll just stick to CCing and leave the OCing to the rest of ya. I think I saw less reaction to the bulls$$t that Hombre1 used to say!!!
Stick around for a while, and you'll find out that over reacting is the main hobby here. One thing that this forum, and the Police forums have in common. At least from what I've seen. :)
 

Taurus850CIA

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, Michigan, USA
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Big Gay Al wrote:
NicF wrote:
But, I think a couple of you have also over reacted to a simple question. Maybe I'll just stick to CCing and leave the OCing to the rest of ya. I think I saw less reaction to the bulls$$t that Hombre1 used to say!!!
Stick around for a while, and you'll find out that over reacting is the main hobby here. One thing that this forum, and the Police forums have in common. At least from what I've seen. :)
This is a relatively recent development, though, to be fair.
 

Big Gay Al

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Taurus850CIA wrote:
Big Gay Al wrote:
NicF wrote:
But, I think a couple of you have also over reacted to a simple question. Maybe I'll just stick to CCing and leave the OCing to the rest of ya. I think I saw less reaction to the bulls$$t that Hombre1 used to say!!!
Stick around for a while, and you'll find out that over reacting is the main hobby here. One thing that this forum, and the Police forums have in common. At least from what I've seen. :)
This is a relatively recent development, though, to be fair.
Yeah, it has been a recent "new hobby." I'm just not sure if it's replacing personal attacks, or supplementing it. ;)
 

Big Gay Al

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stainless1911 wrote:
@NicF

You have done nothing wrong.

I agree totally. When the day comes we can't ask a viable question, then it's time for the revolution to begin. FYI, I think we're getting closer to that day. :)
 

sjalterego

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I don't know what the law is in Michigan but I can tell you that the case law being cited here is very old and not relied on at all. It may be that it has never been explicitly overturned but there are numerous state court decisions from various states that have severly limited the position stated in the cited text. By refusing to take these up on appeal the S.Ct. has implicitly caved in on the language of the cited cases.

The "general rule" in most states is that you may NOT use any force to resist an unlawful arrest by a LEO. That is a matter for the courts to determine. You are allowed to use reasonably necessary force to resist excessive force if necessary to preserve life or limb from injury. Unfortunately, this general rule is itself rarely observed in practice and courts and juries will bend over backwards to give the benefit of the doubt to the police officer.



Before you scream CITE. I will look up some citestomorrow.
 

CrimDoc

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My understanding has always been that you are justified in resisting a truly ILLEGAL arrest. However, you CAN NOT resist an arrest that's made based on probable cause, even if you are factually innocent.

So if a LEO decides to arrest you just because he doesn't like your face, and s(he) has no probable cause to believe you've committed an arrestable offense, you'd be justified in using the minimal amount of force necessary to resist the illegal arrest.

If the LEO has received a report that "a big white guy with a beard just robbed the bank", and s(he) decides to arrest you because you fit the description, you CAN NOT resist even if you aren't the big white bearded guy who committed the offense. If you do, you could be charged with (and convicted of) resisting arrest even if you are never charged with robbing the bank (or any other offense).

In practice, this means you're going to be on VERY shaky ground resisting. The cop is always going to claim that s(he) had probable cause to arrest you. Unless you're 100% certain that you can prove otherwise, it's much smarter / safer to comply, then have your lawyer argue the point in court, than to argue / fight the LEO on the street.

Moreover, if you resist and the situation escalates (which it probably will if you're both armed and determined ) one of two things is likely to happen:

1) The cop will shoot you (in which case, being "right" will be cold comfort).
2) You will end up shooting the cop (in which case, you're gambling on being able to convince the court that the arrest was completely illegal (i.e. in bad faith, with no probable cause) ... if you lose this gamble you'll end up in prison for the rest of your life, with no chance of parole. Not a chance I'd want to take).
 
G

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Why in the world are some of you guys constantly trying to catch flies?
 

mikestilly

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CrimDoc wrote:
My understanding has always been that you are justified in resisting a truly ILLEGAL arrest.   However, you CAN NOT resist an arrest that's made based on probable cause, even if you are factually innocent.

So if a LEO decides to arrest you just because he doesn't like your face, and s(he) has no probable cause to believe you've committed an arrestable offense, you'd be justified in using the minimal amount of force necessary to resist the illegal arrest.

If the LEO has received a report that "a big white guy with a beard just robbed the bank", and s(he) decides to arrest you because you fit the description, you CAN NOT resist even if you aren't the big white bearded guy who committed the offense.   If you do, you could be charged with (and convicted of) resisting arrest even if you are never charged with robbing the bank (or any other offense).

In practice, this means you're going to be on VERY shaky ground resisting.  The cop is always going to claim that s(he) had probable cause to arrest you.   Unless you're 100% certain that you can prove otherwise, it's much smarter / safer to comply, then have your lawyer argue the point in court, than to argue / fight the LEO on the street.

Moreover, if you resist and the situation escalates (which it probably will if you're both armed and determined ) one of two things is likely to happen:

1) The cop will shoot you (in which case, being "right" will be cold comfort).
2) You will end up shooting the cop (in which case, you're gambling on being able to convince the court that the arrest was completely illegal (i.e. in bad faith, with no probable cause) ... if you lose this gamble you'll end up in prison for the rest of your life, with no chance of parole.   Not a chance I'd want to take). 

3.) Or, you will be yelling don't tazzzzzeeee bro and turn the situation in to something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

Smart thing to do is to shut the hell up do not resist. If you are right it will pan out in court. Resisting is also a crime which is not easy to get dismissed and you're escalating a most likely dropped charge to a felony. The smart thing to do is what I said above.


750.479 --Penalty

324.1608 Obstructing, resisting, or opposing officers as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 1608.

A person who knowingly or willfully obstructs, resists, or opposes the department, an officer appointed by the department, or any other peace officer in the performance of the duties and execution of the powers prescribed in this part or in any statute or law, in making an arrest or search as provided in this part, or in serving or attempting to serve or execute any process or warrant issued by lawful authority, or who obstructs, resists, opposes, assaults, beats, or wounds the department, any officer appointed by the department, or any other peace officer while the department or officer is lawfully making an arrest or search, lawfully serving or attempting to serve or execute any such process or warrant, or lawfully executing or attempting to execute or lawfully performing or attempting to perform any of the powers and duties provided for in the statutes or laws described in section 1601, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable as provided in section 479 of the Michigan penal code, Act No. 328 of the Public Acts of 1931, being section 750.479 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. In making an arrest or search as provided in this part, or in serving or attempting to serve or execute any process or warrant, the department, any officer appointed by the department, or any other peace officer shall identify himself or herself by uniform, badge, insignia, or official credentials.
 
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