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Man sues Carrollton PD

Deanimator

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ecocks wrote:
Hopefully he'll get their attention with a win on his lawsuit and appropriate damages which force policy changes.
The individual officers need to be hammered. That's the ONLY way there'll be deterrence. Otherwise, they'll commit crimes with impunity and let the taxpayers foot the bill.
 

cloudcroft

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That's what's happened before with other police departments in order for them to wise up, and probably will continue to happen again and again until OC becomes more commonly seen out in public.

If OC ever comes to places like DC, Chicago, Detroit and other such crime-ridden repressive liberal cities, imagine being one of the first THERE to exercise your rights: "OCer meets cop" might get pretty interesting! Especially in aplace like Chicago where King Daley might have his cops arrest OCers anyway regardless of what any lawor SCOTUS ruling says.

So expect more such "cops out of control" incidents to happen...just like wecan expect more school, workplace andmall shootings, too.

But you know, the CHIEF is supposed to be in charge of his/her force...so he/she should be punished along with the "perp" street-cops.

-- John D.
 

AbNo

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cloudcroft wrote:
If OC ever comes to places like DC, Chicago, Detroit and other such crime-ridden repressive liberal cities, imagine being one of the first THERE to exercise your rights:
Better bring a video crew.... :uhoh:


mark edward marchiafava wrote:
eye95 wrote:
I really don't think we should generalize the actions of a few LEOs to a larger group of them.
Yes, we should.
While all this was taking place, where were the so-called "good" cops?
Just as I figured.............
No, Mark, we shouldn't. :banghead:

Where were the good cops?

Same reason we carry: Because they can't be everywhere.

That being said, I'd like to see these jackasses run up a flagpole by and in only their underwear.
 

Grapeshot

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
No, AbNo, we should.
I carry for a totally separate reason than most here: to remind those who "serve" in government who their bosses are.
Your reason is different from most here. I see it as frequently in conflict with the stated purpose and rules of OCDO, yet you persist in ranting, often in demeaning and insulting terms.

There once existed the opportunity to be recognized as someone that could be held up as a shining example to others - you carried the flag around which others rallied. Since then you've tarnished your own image and we've found your feet to be of clay. You've become a square peg in a round hole whose time would seem to have passed - that's unfortunate.

I offered this suggestion in your home state section: Generate your own movement, start your own organization - dedicate it to the principles you wish to promote, in the manner you see fit - you decide what, when, where and how.

Yata hey
 

eye95

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AbNo and Grapeshot: Thanks for making the OC movement a rational one. You help convince people that OC can be the kind of choice that ordinary people can make every day.
 

bigdaddy1

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Its hard not to stereotype the police. In many instances they are the enemy or at the least worth avoiding. For example, your driving your car and a marked LEO is behind you, your probably not thinking Oh goody, a cop is behind me. I feel much safer now. How ever if your stuck on the side of the road after your car breaks down and you see a cop pulling up behind you, I don't doubt you feel relief for the potential assistance.

Just like the police are generalizing (stereotyping) people with guns (open or concealed) as criminals until proven otherwise.

I have had both negative and positive interactions with the police. One time while armed, on my own property. (that was a positive one)

To say "thou shalt not generalize" is pretty high thinking, but not really going to happen.
 
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This morning on CNN was a story of some podunk Georgia town who's police department may be disbanded, due to lack of funds.
While the locals were up in arms, I was thinking, "Gee, I wish that would happen in Baton Rouge."
Some people just don't know when something good happens to them.
 

eye95

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
This morning on CNN was a story of some podunk Georgia town who's police department may be disbanded, due to lack of funds.
While the locals were up in arms, I was thinking, "Gee, I wish that would happen in Baton Rouge."
Some people just don't know when something good happens to them.

They shouldn't be "up in arms." They should get armed!
 

cash50

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I hope this guy from Carrolton breaks the bank on this town. Complete BS.
 

rpyne

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We need to support our LOCAL police and help keep them independent. The biggest problem with police departments is that they are becoming federalized and militarized.

We especially need to support our county sheriffs because they are the only elected law enforcement officers and, if they will stand up and do it, have more authority than any state or federal law enforcement.

An Open Letter to American Law Enforcement
Article archived from sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com

“Choose this day whom you will serve.”: An Open Letter to American Law Enforcement.

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- William Butler Yeats, “The Second Coming.”

Gentlemen and Ladies of American Law Enforcement,

There is a growing perception among many Americans that we are headed for one of those periodic moments in our history when our reactions to events will redefine who we are as a people, where we are going as a country and who gets to call the shots when we get there -- what George H.W. Bush called “that vision thing.” This is happening in the middle of unprecedented external and internal stresses on our social order, the results of which you see daily on the streets.

It is going to get worse.

Odds are, it is going to get MUCH worse before it gets better.

IF it gets better any time soon, which I doubt.

And so, ladies and gentlemen of American law enforcement, the prudent among you should be considering this question now, rather than later: “What am I going to do when we get to ‘much worse’?”

Consider first where we are.

The Justice Department's National Gang Intelligence Center estimated last year that there were over a million hard-core gang members in this country who were responsible for over 80% of the crimes. Other experts have suggested that when you add in the gangs’ “extended families” and wannabes the number is closer to between five and ten million. As unemployment has increased, their numbers have likewise swelled.

But the gangs, as bad as they are and as great a threat as they pose to public order, are nothing compared to the larger problem, and that is this.

Respect for duly constituted authority and social trust are essential ingredients of civilization. These elements represent the basic glue of society.

Respect for duly constituted authority is, as every cop knows, at an all-time low. There are two general reasons for this, one systemic and the other so personal that if you look yourselves honestly in the mirror you can see it.

Systemically, “duly constituted authority” derives its legitimacy from the founding documents of our country, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and from the Founders’ concepts of the rule of law. These have all been under attack for a hundred years or more by both corrupt political parties and their union and business familiars. The Constitution has become for some a joke and for others an inconvenient speed bump on the road to tyranny. As long as this degradation of the legitimacy of our political and legal system was perceived by a narrow portion of the population, it was manageable in a societal sense. This is no longer true. When a president and Congress robs one set of people to enrich their cronies, when they violate the settled rule of law regarding bankruptcy to stiff secured creditors in the case of General Motors while rewarding anointed unsecured creditors -- their political allies, the auto unions -- the rest of the population cannot fail but conclude that we are no longer under the rule of law, but the rule of men, which is to say, the law of the jungle. Or, put another way, they -- the “authorities” -- can do anything that the citizenry can’t or won’t stop them from doing. This is the societal Catch 22 we are now in (and have been for a while) that I call “Waco Rules.”

Other cases such as that of David Olofson, a veteran and marksmanship instructor and family man who was railroaded by the ATF on an automatic weapons charge when his semi-automatic AR-15 malfunctioned -- and he was chosen for prosecution simply because the ATF did not care for his low opinion of them -- have convinced many that a fair trial is no longer possible in federal court if an agency decides to “deal with” them. And if we are no longer guaranteed a fair trial in the federal court system, then if we are innocent and decide that we do not wish to play drop the soap with either the Aryan or Muslim Brotherhoods, our only guarantee is the right of an unfair gunfight when the ATF comes calling.

And remember that Olofson is merely one example of federal misadventure. There are many others, as there are plenty of similar cases in local and state jurisdictions. When the law-abiding rightfully no longer trust the law enforcers and begin to view them as a class of criminals merely acting under color of law, anarchy is not far away.

Yet, you will say, “don’t blame me, I enforce the law, I don’t make it.” True, but insufficient as an excuse, and here we get down to that look in the mirror.

My friend and fellow gun rights blogger David Codrea over at WaronGuns has a description for feral cops. He calls them the “Only Ones.” His daily blog is filled to overflowing with example of rogue cops, their partners who never rein them in and the prosecutors and judges who find reasons to go easy on even the most heinous of criminals with badges. You know who I’m talking about. If you say there are none of these currently operating or in the making within your department then you are either lying or uninterested in seeing the truth, which amounts to the same thing.

Everyone knows what happens to honest cops who “rat out” their uniformed criminal associates. They are hounded, despised, disciplined and shunned -- and that’s on a good day. Can you blame many of us who pay attention to such law enforcement corruption for concluding that you may merely be a member of an “official gang” as opposed to a freelance one? Such dereliction of duty begs the question: If your excuse is that you don’t make the law, you just enforce it, and then you don’t enforce it upon yourselves, why should we be paying tax dollars to support “official” law breaking?

There is another image that many of you can see in the mirror if you choose to take an honest look -- that of tax collector and nanny state bully boy. Yes, we know, you didn’t make the laws, some liberal puke with a control fetish did. But when you write speeding tickets for 3 miles over the limit because you’ve been told to write “x amount” of dollar value or when you pull people over for “seatbelt violations” at random roadblocks and then ransack their cars without probable cause, can you understand how such behavior eats away like acid on your reputation -- individually and collectively -- as servants of the citizenry? What part of “to protect and serve” does that represent?

But worse than all that is the militarization of the police -- in equipment, tactics and, worst of all, attitude -- and the federalization of all law enforcement over the past forty years, but especially in the last ten. There were, last time I checked a few years ago, something like 750,000 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. Add to that another 150,000 or so full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government. With the growth of new agencies like the TSA during the “war on terror” (who, because of political correctness can’t seem to figure out who the real “terrorists” are so they merely oppress the rest of us in order to be “fair”) that number has certainly risen.

In any case, there are hardly enough Feds to work the administration’s will upon a nation so vast and a people so numerous, so much thought and effort has gone into suborning and subverting local and state law enforcement for federal purposes -- “Joint Task Forces” and “fusion centers” being two principal ways. Yet, as the Founders quite clearly understood, it is one of the duties of local law enforcement, especially the county sheriffs, to interpose themselves between the federal government and the people of their jurisdictions when the federal government becomes oppressive.

Now, however, local law enforcement is looked upon by federal agents as force multipliers and willing stooges -- “local yokels” in their parlance. And as a mark of how successful their campaign has been, many local law enforcement officers agree and happily lick the boots that kick them.

A recent case in point. Two county sheriff’s deputies showed up at the doorstep of a man out west who had expressed his contempt for Nancy Pelosi and and other federal politicians in letters and emails. These deputies, saying that the FBI had sent them, interrogated the man, threatened him “with Leavenworth” and engaged in intimidation of political speech. These local cops, having no jurisdiction to do anything of the sort, would have been laughed off of my porch here in Alabama and told to bugger off and return with real federal cops, if that was in fact their intention. Too often these days, when the federal man says “frog” many of you merely ask “how high?”

Of course, if this intimidation had back-fired on the locals in any way, the Fibbies would have been the first to disavow them, leaving them hanging out in the legal laundry to dry. So when y’all are looking in that mirror, ask yourselves how truly stupid you actually are when it comes to enforcing an agenda and not the law just because the Feds ask you to.

Because here’s the essential thing: you, ALL OF YOU, took an oath to, among other things, “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” You swore that, the overwhelming majority of you, to God. Did you think that oath had a shelf life? Do you think that now that you have by your reckoning faithfully upheld that oath for, say, twenty years now that tomorrow it is okay to forget it? You swore, whether you realized it at the time or not, an OATH, before GOD, and it was a LIFETIME oath.

While you are looking in the mirror, evaluate your career based upon that oath. It was not to a man, or an administration, or a political party but to an idea -- the idea of ordered liberty as codified in the Constitution of the United States of America. So ask yourself, did you or did you not intend to faithfully uphold that oath? Because the answer to that question is going to become very important very quickly as this politically divided and morally fractured society continues to spin out of control.

To quote Joshua, “Choose this day whom you will serve.”

Katrina showed us many things. It showed that in a disaster many cops will look to their families and not the public duty, leaving their fellow law enforcement officers with an even greater burden. It showed us that cops can be opportunistic criminals as well, partaking in looting with as much energy as professional criminals. It also showed us that the police no longer trust the law-abiding citizen with arms, depriving them of their only means of self-defense once the cops have moved on, leaving them to the tender mercies of robbers, rapists and murderers. ^ It is perhaps dangerous to make too large of a generalization, for there are many rural jurisdictions where this still does apply, but the fact of the matter is that by and large, the police no longer trust the people they are supposed to protect, and they especially do not trust an armed citizen, even if he represents no danger to the cop. This is standing the oath on its head. The people do not exist to serve the servant, but rather the other way around.

When a policeman pulls over a driver whose computer record shows not only the driver’s license of the vehicle’s owner, but the fact that they have a concealed carry permit, it is too often SOP for the cop to approach the vehicle, gun drawn, order the man or woman from the car, put them on their knees and cuff them before anything else transpires. These are not the acts of public servants but rather of an occupying army. And with each breach of trust, the glue holding society together is further weakened. For the more you distrust us, the more we are reminded to distrust you.

It is important to remember, Mr. and Ms. Law Enforcement Officer, that you need us, the law-abiding armed citizenry, one [heck] of a lot more than we need you. Just ask any criminal. Who is it that they fear most? The encounter with a policeman or a would-be victim who turns out to be armed? I tell you this uncomfortable truth and I hope you have the honesty to admit it -- the criminals of this country are far more scared of the armed citizenry than they are of the police.

It is not the fear of the patrol car that inhibits criminal behavior the most, but rather the prospect of screwing up and getting his brains blown out by a citizen in righteous self defense. And so, when you participate in citizen disarmament efforts, whether gun seizures like Katrina, or merely identifying otherwise friendly peaceable folks as “the enemy” just because they are armed, you are alienating your most valuable friends and empowering your most vicious enemies. Not to mention the fact that you are violating that sacred oath you took.

So ponder that deteriorating social trust that holds civilizations together, and then ponder this: the worst is yet to come.

What will happen when we are faced, God forbid, with some dislocating national disaster -- natural or man-made -- that makes Katrina look like a kindergarten playground? Now, even if you intend to run off like some New Orleans policemen did to see to the safety of their families rather than keep order in the city, you are still going to need the cooperation of the armed citizenry in your home neighborhood to protect your family.

You -- ALL of you -- law enforcement officers, will then need us, the armed citizenry -- ALL of us willing and competent to muster -- to defend public order against the tide of chaos represented by five or ten million gang members and the tens of millions of panicked unprepared refugees or opportunistic criminals left unrestrained by a breakdown.

Do you seriously think that federal police, all 150,000 of them, will actually help you in that event, beyond issuing orders that they will not be personally endangered with carrying out?

You will then be on your own, and you will have us. At least those of you will who have the sense to plan now to make that happen in the event.

You might start by remembering your oaths, by beginning to trust us, by refusing to engage in petty harrassments of CCW permit holders and by strengthening your department’s auxiliary program (or starting one if you do not have one).

But first and foremost you must quit looking at and treating the law-abiding armed citizenry of the United States as the enemy. For if you don’t, we certainly will be.

Convince us by your actions that you are no better than the gangs who commit crimes without uniforms and we will treat you similarly. And there ain’t nearly enough of you to shove us around in a real national emergency.

Remember, Americans are nothing if not a practical people. We're predisposed to help and support you. Please, take our hand when it is offered, BEFORE it is needed.

Sincerely,

Mike Vanderboegh
The alleged leader of a merry band of Three Percenters
GeorgeMason1776@aol.com
sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com
Edit: formatting
 

AbNo

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eye95 wrote:
AbNo and Grapeshot: Thanks for making the OC movement a rational one. You help convince people that OC can be the kind of choice that ordinary people can make every day.
Thank you. :)

bigdaddy1 wrote:
Its hard not to stereotype the police. In many instances they are the enemy or at the least worth avoiding.
....
To say "thou shalt not generalize" is pretty high thinking, but not really going to happen.
Exactly. Personally, I've been lied to by police and dispatchers, quite to my detriment. I'm not anti-cop, but, because of my personal experiences, I do not feel that I can reliably place my trust in what I am told by an officer, unless I verify it myself.

For the record, the father of a roommate of mine works for the local PD, and he stops by all the time, often during his shift, and I have no problem with it. He's a pretty nice guy, and we get along well.

So yes, I am aware that I generalize, everyone does, but I try to keep it to myself, or keep it within what I consider more-than-reasonable. I say "more than" to give myself some headway against my own skewed perceptions. One of the benefits of excessive meta-thinking. :)


Because someone will ask, it involved a friend of mine's now ex-husband, a couple of minors, some alcohol, and him lying about my involvement in his infidelity after I left the house and called the police on him.

I was cleared of everything, but I'll never get that week of my life and freedom back.
Played a LOT of Monopoly, though.

"The officer would just like you to come over and answer some questions", my arse. :(
 

Grapeshot

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AbNo wrote:
The officer would just like you to come over and answer some questions", my arse. :(
That should always be a red flag and a no-no, not without my attorney.

If they won't talk on the phone, they have other plans.

Yata hey
 

Flashbang

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When this gentleman is finished with his lawsuit, the officers involved should be in jail and penniless. The supervisor on scene should be out of a job. The laughter would do it for me, if I sat on that jury. Everyone he came in contact with while attempting to file his complaint and obtain records should be out of a job. The city should have to ask the victim for a loan to meet payroll. I understand LEO's have a difficult job, but there is no excuse for such behavior.
 

zack991

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Flashbang wrote:
When this gentleman is finished with his lawsuit, the officers involved should be in jail and penniless. The supervisor on scene should be out of a job. The laughter would do it for me, if I sat on that jury. Everyone he came in contact with while attempting to file his complaint and obtain records should be out of a job. The city should have to ask the victim for a loan to meet payroll. I understand LEO's have a difficult job, but there is no excuse for such behavior.
That is the best outcome I could hope and pray for.
 

AbNo

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Grapeshot wrote:
AbNo wrote:
The officer would just like you to come over and answer some questions", my arse. :(
That should always be a red flag and a no-no, not without my attorney.

If they won't talk on the phone, they have other plans.

Yata hey
Well, I know that NOW. And it wasn't about anything I'd done, as far as I knew (lie).

Apparently, when a couple of people with badges came by and broke up the statutory party, one of the people there said I made a special trip to the beverage store for the girl.

It was nolle prosequi'd after I had a nice conversation with the guy's First Shirt, which only took a week.

So yeah. Back on topic, shall we?
 

Dustiniac

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eye95 wrote:
Master Doug Huffman wrote:
eye95 wrote:
I really don't think we should generalize the actions of a few LEOs to a larger group of them.
When you're a bit older then you may understand your error.

If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain. Francois Guizot, "Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head."
I've about had it with your self-serving arrogance.

This board really needs an ignore feature. However, I will just simply choose to breeze by your condescending drivel in the future. Have a nice life.
Hey we have to deal with his smug attitude in teh wisconsin forum everyday. An ignore feature would be nice.
 
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Dustiniac wrote:
eye95 wrote:
Master Doug Huffman wrote:
eye95 wrote:
I really don't think we should generalize the actions of a few LEOs to a larger group of them.
When you're a bit older then you may understand your error.
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain. Francois Guizot, "Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head."
I've about had it with your self-serving arrogance.

This board really needs an ignore feature. However, I will just simply choose to breeze by your condescending drivel in the future. Have a nice life.
Hey we have to deal with his smug attitude in teh wisconsin forum everyday. An ignore feature would be nice.
I wonder if Dustiniac has so little self-control that he is unable to ignore me or if he resents that others attend me and not Dustiniac? It must be tough to discover one's insignificance, and so young too!
 

AbNo

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Master Doug Huffman wrote:
I wonder if Dustiniac has so little self-control that he is unable to ignore me or if he resents that others attend me and not Dustiniac? It must be tough to discover one's insignificance, and so young too!


AbNo wrote:
So yeah. Back on topic, shall we?

:cuss:
 
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