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Thread: Virginia Firearms Freedom Act - Libertarians trying to get it done!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    March 11, 2010


    Dear Friends of Liberty,

    State Senate Democrats Saslaw and Marsh continue to violate their own rules to prevent an up or down vote by the full Courts of Justice Committee on HB69, the Virginia Firearms Freedom Act. Such a vote would force Democrats to choose between their anti-gun position and the cold, hard reality of the fact that a recorded vote in strong pro-gun districts would make them vulnerable in Senate elections coming up in 2011.

    Yesterday, Senator Mark Obenshain tried to get a committee vote on HB 69. Chairman Marsh was so flustered that his political superior Senator Saslaw took over the committee and ruled all Senator Obenshain's motions out of order.

    Senator Obenshain then challenged the rule of the chair and lost 12-3. All senators except Hurt, McDougle, and Obenshain voted wrong. Senator Saslaw then tried to get the clerk not to record the vote.

    Some 30,000 tea party activists had requested assistance from the House to resurrect HB69. But Speaker Howell and House Majority Leader Morgan Griffith refused to substitute the language of SB501 with the language of HB69, stating "the bills are not germane."

    Meanwhile, a Conference Committee of both House and Senate legislators have no problem violating the "one subject" rule, Article 4, Section 12 of the Virginia Constitution, by embedding fee increases, a euphemism for raising taxes, in HB30, an appropriations bill.

    The state legislature makes it clear they are willing to violate Senate rules and even the Virginia Constitution to strip citizens of their lawful rights and to raise taxes in spite of campaign promises not to, but back down from perfectly legal maneuvers to protect states rights and individual liberties with an up or down vote on bills they don't like.

    There is only one option left, and that is to use a rare Senate procedure on the floor to get a recorded vote on HB69.

    Senator Jill Vogel has agreed to do this.

    She has not disclosed exactly how she will do it, but she agrees that it is critical that you contact your senator and urge them to support her efforts to get a vote on HB 69 on the Senate Floor.

    The biggest excuse against doing this will be that there is no precedent for such a maneuver. That may be true, but there is no rule preventing it either, and such transparent hypocrisy by legislators cannot be tolerated. It is outrageous that Senator Saslaw and Marsh have conspired to deprive us of a vote by breaking Senate rules.

    That's right!

    The Senate rules say that the subcommittee that Senator Marsh created to kill HB 69 can only make recommendations on bills, NOT kill a bill.

    Please email Senator Vogel at district27@senate.virginia.gov with the following message:

    "Dear Senator Vogel,

    I understand that you will make an attempt to get a recorded Senate vote on the Virginia Firearms Freedom Act. I want to thank you for agreeing to do all you can to get HB 69 to the Senate floor. I am urging my senator to support you.

    Sincerely,
    (Your name)"


    Then send a message to your senator. You can find your senator's contact information here.

    Suggested script:

    "Dear Senator ________________,

    It is unconscionable that Senator Saslaw and Marsh have conspired to break the Senate rules by not even allowing a vote on HB 69, which overwhelmingly passed the House.

    Senator Vogel is trying to get HB 69 to the Senate floor.

    Whatever motions she makes are appropriate for such a time as this.

    I urge you not to disregard my sacred liberties. Please stand up to the federal government and the violation of Senate rules by Senators Saslaw and Marsh by supporting Senator Vogel's effort to get an up or down vote on HB69.

    Sincerely,
    (Your name)"


    Thank you for hanging tough and for your continued effort to get a vote on the Virginia Firearms Freedom Act.


    Yours in liberty,

    Donna Holt

    Executive Director

    Virginia Campaign for Liberty

    Interim State Coordinator

    Campaign for Liberty National

    www.campaignforliberty.com
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Sen Vogel is mine so I certainly sent her a thank you.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Thank you sent to Vogel. Request sent to Locke.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thank you sent to Vogel. Request sent to Blevins.

  5. #5
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    Sent Senator Vogel a thank you.

    Since I live in 35, sent Saslaw a modified version asking him stop violating rules.

    Carl

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    My letter to my Senator

    Hello Senator Norment:

    I hope this e-mail finds you in good health and spirits. I recently received a letter from your office about your recent actions in the Senate in relation to your votes concerning specific "gun bills".

    Of the votes you cast in support of freedom and liberty for all Virginian citizens,I am greatful, and although you voted against repealing the "conceal carry in restaurant ban" I understand your reasons, though I disagree with them. Primarily because the interest of businesses should ALWAYS take a back seat to acitizens ability to effectively defend ourselves and our family, and further more, our fellow citizens from violent criminals. ThoughI do appreciate your honesty and fortitude of standing by your principles, even ifI think they are misled at times.

    As I am sure you are aware Senators Saslaw and Marsh have violated the rules of the Senate by using their Sub-committee appointment to "kill" bills that should have been voted on by the full committee. This tactic concerning especially HB69 is in direct conflict with your interest in keeping Virginia business healthy and productive.

    Removing the un-constitutional over reaching of Federal law into "intrastate" commerce concerning firearms, accessories, and ammunition, is vital in not only securing andenforcing our rights under the 10th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, butalso in making it easier for Virginia based businesses to get started in a profitable and patriotic industry.

    Businesses and individuals engaged in buildingarms, ammunition and accessories, must buy raw materials and tooling, both of which must be restocked and updated quite frequently. Thus stimulating our own state economy, in the purchase of materials and tooling and also creating employment for thelarger and more industrious of our fellow citizens.

    Senator Vogel is apparently aware of this gross violation of the Senate rules on behalf of Marsh and Saslaw, and is attempting to get a vote by the full committee on HB69. As an active voter and representee of district 3, I urge your support this effort.



    Sincerely

    Ryan Xxxxx

    804 642 xxxx

  7. #7
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Vogel.

    Wagner and McWaters.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Reply email from Sen. Vogel:



    Dear xxxxxx:

    Thank you so much for your email. I am very grateful for your support!

    Best regards,

    Jill

    District 27
    Senate of Virginia


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I got the same one today also.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Sen. Vogelis going to need lots of support in order to get a recorded vote out of the Virginia Senate.

    Why isn't herfuture demand for a recorded votein the VCDL Alert?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  11. #11
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:

    Sen. Vogelis going to need lots of support in order to get a recorded vote out of the Virginia Senate.

    Why isn't herfuture demand for a recorded votein the VCDL Alert?
    Good question.

    According to today's Minutes, there was no such action.

    However, the Senate will Saturday, March 12, 2010 at 11:00 a.m.

    So there is still time.

    We should rally to get Delegate Lingamfelter's HB49 included so we can repeal the one gun a month law as well.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:

    Sen. Vogelis going to need lots of support in order to get a recorded vote out of the Virginia Senate.

    Why isn't herfuture demand for a recorded votein the VCDL Alert?
    The latest news is that Bill Bolling is supporting Senator Vogel:

    Anti-gun bill panel creation broke Senate rules
    Yes, Democratic leaders in Virginia's Senate broke the rules when they killed a bunch of gun rights bills in a specially formed subcommittee. And, no, there's not a thing anybody can do about it.

    That's the upshot of a ruling that came down Friday from Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling (R), who is president of the Senate.

    The controversy began when Senate Majority Leader Richard Saslaw (D-Fairfax) and Courts of Justice Chairman Henry Marsh (D-Richmond) created a special subcommittee to consider several gun bills passed by the Republican-controlled House, including an attempt to repeal Virginia's ban on buying more than one handgun a month.

    Almost all of the gun bills, except those that were similar to measures adopted by the Senate, died there last week on party-line votes. Among the dead was Del. Scott Lingamfelter's (R-Prince William) closely watched attempt to repeal the gun-a-month law.

    Some gun-control advocates praised the end if not the means. Others criticized Senate leaders only for not thinking of the idea sooner. But gun-rights supporters derided the Courts of Justice special subcommittee as "the death star" committee and accused the Senate leadership of acting like autocrats.

    Other newly created subcommittees killed other unwanted House bills too, including one that would have protected Virginians from involuntary microchip implantation -- a measure derided by critics as the "mark of the Beast" bill.

    Saslaw wasn't shy about the purpose of the Courts of Justice special subcommittee, which was stacked with four Democratic senators and one moderate Republican. Saslaw said in interviews that the Democratic-controlled Senate was merely engaging in a little payback after years of watching bills roll out with significant majorities only to die at the hands of a few delegates on subcommittees in the Republican-controlled House.

    On Thursday, Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel (R-Winchester) tried to revive a gun-rights measure--shielding public access to the list of concealed weapon permit holders--by amending another gun-related bill on the floor of the Senate. She withdrew the amendment eventually, but not before criticizing the handiwork of the newly invented subcommittees and their propriety.

    Enter Bolling.

    His March 12 memo, citing Rule 20 (h), says:

    "Accordingly, and based on my objective interpretation of the Rules of the Senate, it is my belief that Senate subcommittees do not have the authority to take final action on any bill or resolution referred to them. The subcommittee can consider such bills and resolutions, but ultimately, the subcommitee is only empowered to make recommendations to the full Committee. The ultimate authority of taking final action on such bills and resolutions rests solely with the full committee."

    Bolling's memo also points out that, unlike the Senate, the House's rules specifically grant subcommittees the authority to take final action on bills.

    Bolling spokeswoman Ibbie Hedrick said the memo cannot force compliance of the rules. "It's just his opinion on the matter," she said.

    But Bolling's memo also included a genteel reminder to the senators to play nice:

    "As you know, the Senate has long prided itself on compliance with the Rules and traditions of the Senate. It is important that the Rules and traditions of the Senate be complied with when they advance members ultimate goals and objectives, and even when they do not."
    The plot thickens on the Senate's rules
    Well it took all week, but there has been some movement on whether the Virginia Senate's rules actually allow subcommittees to kill bills, rather than simply recommend their passage or defeat to the full committee.

    Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling's memo on the subject, issued today, states in part:

    ...based upon my objective interpretation of the Rules of the Senate, it is my belief that Senate subcommittees do not have the authority to take final action on any bill or resolution referred to them. The subcommittee can consider such bills and resolutions, but ultimately, the subcommittee is only empowered to make recommendations to the full Committee. The ultimate authority for taking final action on such bills and resolutions rests solely with the full committee.


    While Bolling does not offer a course of action, such as on those gun bills referred to, and killed by, Sen. Henry Marsh's special Court's of Justice subcommittee, Bolling would seem to have opened the door for a bit more debate, if not action, on the fate of those maybe-not-entirely-dead gun rights measures.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Come on Virginia, send th e-mail to your Senator. This is a real target mission
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  14. #14
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Come on Virginia, send th e-mail to your Senator. This is a real target mission
    Subcommittees' clout called limited
    Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling yesterday released a memo to members of the Senate stating that under his interpretation of the chamber rules, Senate subcommittees do not have the authority to take final action on any bill or resolution referred to them.

    Bolling's memo comes on the heels of Sen. Henry L. Marsh III, D-Richmond, creating a special subcommittee to hear a slew of gun bills sent over from the House of Delegates.

    Marsh appointed one Republican and three Democrats to the subcommittee, plus himself. Few of the major gun bills made it out alive.

    Bolling, a Republican, said in his memo that a subcommittee "can consider such bills and resolutions, but ultimately, the subcommittee is only empowered to make recommendations to the full committee.

    "The ultimate authority of taking final action on such bills and resolutions rests solely with the full committee."

    Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel, R-Fauquier, asked that Bolling dispense guidance on the matter. Guidance, by the way, is all it is.

    The responsibility for enforcing the rules when a bill is in committee rests with the committee chairman -- in this case, Marsh, who chairs the full Senate Courts of Justice Committee.
    In other words, the Fox guarding the henhouse.

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  15. #15
    Regular Member bmartinxd45's Avatar
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    A thank you e-mail was sent to Sen. Vogal, as well I sent a request for support to Sen. McDugal. To my knowledge this is the same sub commitee that killed HB854 which passed the House only to be killed in the senate.

    Dear Mr. Martin,

    Thank you for taking the time to express your support for HB 854, which was introduced by Delegate James Morefield. I am happy to report that I voted in favor of this bill, and HB 854 passed the House. Unfortunately, the legislation was defeated in the VA State Senate.

    I hope you will continue to stay in touch.

    Sincerely,

    John Cox


    From the office of:
    Delegate John Cox
    Hanover's 55th District
    804-698-1055
    email: DelJCox@house.virginia.gov



  16. #16
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Repeater wrote:
    The responsibility for enforcing the rules when a bill is in committee rests with the committee chairman -- in this case, Marsh, who chairs the full Senate Courts of Justice Committee.
    In other words, the Fox guarding the henhouse.
    Or maybe the inmates running the asylum!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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