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Thread: Court OKs ‘under God’ in Pledge of Allegiance

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    I love this descision. We are a nation founded under GOD and shouldn't have to hide from that fact. Way to go Appelate Court!

    SAN FRANCISCO - A federal appeals court in San Francisco upheld the use of the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on U.S. currency, rejecting arguments on Thursday that the phrases violate the separation of church and state.

    The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel rejected two legal challenges by Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow, who claimed the references to God disrespect his religious beliefs.

    "The Pledge is constitutional," Judge Carlos Bea wrote for the majority in the 2-1 ruling. "The Pledge of Allegiance serves to unite our vast nation through the proud recitation of some of the ideals upon which our Republic was founded."

    The same court ruled in Newdow's favor in 2002 after he sued his daughter's school district for forcing students to recite the pledge.

    That lawsuit reached the U.S. Supreme Court in 2004, but the high court ruled that Newdow lacked the legal standing to file the suit because he didn't have custody of his daughter, on whose behalf he brought the case.

    So Newdow, who is a doctor and lawyer, filed the challenge on behalf of other parents who objected to their children being required to recite the pledge. In 2005, a federal judge in Sacramento decided in Newdow's favor, ruling that the pledge was unconstitutional.

    "I want to be treated equally," Newdow said when he argued the case before the 9th Circuit in December 2007. He added that supporters of the phrase "want to have their religious views espoused by the government."

    In a separate 3-0 ruling Thursday, the appeals court upheld the inscription of the national motto "In God We Trust" on coins and currency.


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35821301...me_and_courts/

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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    I just think it's funny. Like it or not we are all under God. Just like we are all in the militia. Some things just aren't really up for debate like it or not.
    United we STAND!

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    I don't usually like to talk OT politics on OCDO because I feel it detracts from the main focus. So, I'll just say this and then be on my way: this is a terrible ruling. Find me on MGO if you want to discuss.

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    Haha...I guess I'll "****" on this one since it's not "really up for debate like it or not".

    Doh!





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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 12:57 PM.

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    CoonDog wrote:
    I don't usually like to talk OT politics on OCDO because I feel it detracts from the main focus. So, I'll just say this and then be on my way: this is a terrible ruling. Find me on MGO if you want to discuss.
    +1

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    scot623 wrote:
    "The Pledge of Allegiance serves to unite our vast nation through the proud recitation of some of the ideals upon which our Republic was founded."
    Hmmm, then why don't we say the pledge the way it was originally written?
    I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    "under God" was added in 1954.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    under god is a call for patriotism, NOT a call for church. it is meant to be god willing as in Lincolns Gettysburg address, however, it was grammtically incorrect.

    also, as an atheist I fully support the use of the words under god, I think people need to focus energy on things that matter, instead of things that do not matter whatsoever.

    if I was a judge, I would simply rule, "mind your own business, quit being a sissy" it would solve many of the worlds problems.

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    good ruling and good comment kyle.....

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    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

    Why cant we just say the original pledge?

    We are one nation under multiple gods, beliefs and religions and it is up to each and every one of us to decide on how we want to believe and shouldn't be the government telling people what to say.

    To me i dont want the government telling me where im not allowed to carry my gun and i dont want the government to tell me how to pledge allegiance to the flag of our great country.

    Everyone on here hates Govt intrusion when it comes to our guns and the second amendment but your ok with the government telling people what they have to say in the pledge of allegiance?

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    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    under god is a call for patriotism, NOT a call for church. it is meant to be god willing as in Lincolns Gettysburg address, however, it was grammtically incorrect.

    also, as an atheist I fully support the use of the words under god, I think people need to focus energy on things that matter, instead of things that do not matter whatsoever.

    if I was a judge, I would simply rule, "mind your own business, quit being a sissy" it would solve many of the worlds problems.
    great comment, and also as an atheist i guess if i were asked i would say the original pledge covers everyone. but......
    if i cared at all on the matter i would have said something a long time ago.

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    cvogtmann wrote:
    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

    Why cant we just say the original pledge?

    We are one nation under multiple gods, beliefs and religions and it is up to each and every one of us to decide on how we want to believe and shouldn't be the government telling people what to say.

    To me i dont want the government telling me where im not allowed to carry my gun and i dont want the government to tell me how to pledge allegiance to the flag of our great country.

    Everyone on here hates Govt intrusion when it comes to our guns and the second amendment but your ok with the government telling people what they have to say in the pledge of allegiance?
    You can. No one is stopping you. If you don't want to say something, no one can stop you. You can say nothing at all. It is your right.springerdave.

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    I agree, ONE NATION UNDER GOD!!!

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    This forum is to discuss Open Carry and things of the sort. that's all i come here for.

    Devery

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Right now we're "one nation, under the weather"...

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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    Well, if the right to defend yourself is inherent with life itself, then wouldn't a "supreme being" that gave us that life also be the author of our rights?

    Doesn't the author of our rights deserve recognition for such?
    United we STAND!

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    JeffSayers wrote:
    I just think it's funny. Like it or not we are all under God. Just like we are all in the militia. Some things just aren't really up for debate like it or not.
    Your conclusion depends on the existence of God. I reject this premise outright.

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    marshaul wrote:
    Your conclusion depends on the existence of God. I reject this premise outright.
    Not dependant upon God, but upon a supreme being yes. This would include the ideology of the majority of the world. Certainly there are many who believe in no supreme being of any sort, and I respect that,although I don't live my life trying to avoid offending them.

    While I would neverpass a chance to offer the viewpoints of my belief, I won't make anyone's ears (or eyeballs in this case) bleed either. However, should anyone be interested in a private discussion, I am available.
    United we STAND!

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    My point is merely thus: I believe in no "supreme being" of any sort. I consider such to be superstition at best.

    Now, what are the ramifications of that? Not much. I'm content not to say the pledge of allegiance, both because "god" is silly, but more importantly because my allegiance to the ideals of liberty is far greater than my allegiance to any government or symbol thereof -- government no longer deserves my allegiance when it fails to serve liberty, whereas if government enhances my liberty it will not need a pledge to gain my allegiance.

    But don't expect this decision to excite me. This is a big ol' :quirky to me. I don't care about the pledge in the first place. But if I did, I'd probably be inclined to side with those who do not approve of this decision.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 12:55 PM.

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    T Vance wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    I'm content not to say the pledge of allegiance, both because "god" is silly, but more importantly because my allegiance to the ideals of liberty is far greater than my allegiance to any government or symbol thereof -- government no longer deserves my allegiance when it fails to serve liberty, whereas if government enhances my liberty it will not need a pledge to gain my allegiance.
    Some people probably won't like me saying this, but there was a period whenif I was some place that would have everyone stand for the National Anthem, I would remained seated.

    I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone, its just that I felt this was something pushed on people by the government, and I didn't/don't like what the government (of today...not when our country was founded)stands for. It was my way of protesting it.
    T, I wish to say that I respect ANYONE'S right to stand or not stand, to join in or to refrain from reciting The Pledge of Allegiance. There was a time when I would not recite the Pledge with the word God in it as I did not believe at that time. Even as a non-believer, I still held firm the idea that others had the right to do so. There was never any disrespect intended. Things are different now.springerdave.

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    Seperation of church and state....
    Show me.


    This is what is in the Constitution:

    Amendment I:
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.





    This prohibits the gov't from forcing you to practice "X" religion, as well as prohibits gov't from forcing you NOT to practice "X" religion. It does NOT say that the gov't itself can't have religious slogans or pictures, icons, images, etc. in or on buildings, currency, correspondence, etc., or that the gov't itself can not abide by or practice "X" religion.

    Our country was founded on Christian principles, and while I'm probably agnostic, I believe that Christian values are good ones, worth teaching, and worth hanging on to. I grew up in and around Christian families. What was taught is worth knowing. It is a solid groundwork of moral character that I hold dear. When enough people started crying about religion vs. state, I think we lost a lot of moral ground as a country.

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    T Vance wrote:
    Seperation of church and state....
    Nowhere in the constitution is there a Seperation of church and state. It's a fact that the liberals have takenn the concept to an extreme to say that we should remove god from our lives in relation to our government.

    The fact is the founders were religious men whom built many basic principals and concepts and backed them up with their religious views. If you dont believe me I suggest you read the full text and underlying notes the founders published to explain their principals.

    Liberalism has taken separation of church and state to an extreme which was contrary to the founding principals of this country.

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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    Wasn't the Bible a standard textbook in this nation's early years?

    And before that fact gets dashed, consider this: How is that wrong when today we study evolution in schools? Isn't evoltion the opposite of religion? To be equal wouldn't it make sense to study both so each person can make their own educated decision?

    Uh oh... I think the anti christian liberals union "ACLU" is knocking on my door now...


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