T Vance
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T, I wish to say that I respect ANYONE'S right to stand or not stand, to join in or to refrain from reciting The Pledge of Allegiance. There was a time when I would not recite the Pledge with the word God in it as I did not believe at that time. Even as a non-believer, I still held firm the idea that others had the right to do so. There was never any disrespect intended. Things are different now.springerdave.marshaul wrote:I'm content not to say the pledge of allegiance, both because "god" is silly, but more importantly because my allegiance to the ideals of liberty is far greater than my allegiance to any government or symbol thereof -- government no longer deserves my allegiance when it fails to serve liberty, whereas if government enhances my liberty it will not need a pledge to gain my allegiance.
Some people probably won't like me saying this, but there was a period whenif I was some place that would have everyone stand for the National Anthem, I would remained seated.
I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone, its just that I felt this was something pushed on people by the government, and I didn't/don't like what the government (of today...not when our country was founded)stands for. It was my way of protesting it.
Show me.Seperation of church and state....
Seperation of church and state....
Considering that religious freedom is still protected in this country, I wonder what "extremes" you could be referring to.T Vance wrote:Seperation of church and state....
Nowhere in the constitution is there a Seperation of church and state. It's a fact that the liberals have takenn the concept to an extreme to say that we should remove god from our lives in relation to our government.
The fact is the founders were religious men whom built many basic principals and concepts and backed them up with their religious views. If you dont believe me I suggest you read the full text and underlying notes the founders published to explain their principals.
Liberalism has taken separation of church and state to an extreme which was contrary to the founding principals of this country.
Now, as to what Jefferson meant by his "wall", that is up for debate. But pretending that the notion is some "liberal" creation simply because it wasn't mentioned in the constitution is quite disingenuous. Jefferson's writings are way closer to the constitution than you'll ever be.Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
Honestly, no this wouldn't make sense at all.And before that fact gets dashed, consider this: How is that wrong when today we study evolution in schools? Isn't evoltion the opposite of religion? To be equal wouldn't it make sense to study both so each person can make their own educated decision?
That's right, hence the 1st amendment, limiting government's control over individuals' beliefs. Practice what you wish, it's your right. Enumerated, no less.snip'
I completely understand that our great country was founded on Christian beliefs but we the people of this great country are not all Christians.