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Thread: Interview with antiguners

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Northwest Nights with Frank Shiers (7:00 pm)

    In this interview with the LIB, the LIB states that at a michigan OC picnic someone discharged there weapon, is this true or was that a lie? I havent heard anything about this.

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    It's sadly somewhat true.

    After the picnic ended and most all (but about 3 people) had left, a member who had attended had a negligent discharge in the parking lot.

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    NICE I didnt hear a thing about that not goodwhat a D___A__ I was hopeing it was a lie. Thanks Ziggy hope to see you tomorrow.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    It's sadly somewhat true.

    After the picnic ended and most all (but about 3 people) had left, a member who had attended had a negligent discharge in the parking lot.

    the person was not a member of michigan open carry but was on the ocdo forum!!!

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 12:57 PM.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 12:57 PM.

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    It only happened because of the stupid law that he had to follow about unloading the firearm to store in his trunk to transport it.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 12:57 PM.

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    I just hate to have any fule for the anti gunners.Be smart be safe and carry on!!

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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 12:57 PM.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    It was unfortunate and the way it was handled in that the people involved drove away instead of staying to face the music.

    Also as others have said if he would not have had to handle the firearm it would not have happened.

    Another point is that the gun was brand new and he had not carried it before. This is why practice with a certain firearms before carrying is very important. It is also a good idea to practice loading and unloading at the range many times before Ocing if you do NOT have a CPL as you will have to do it multiple times a day.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    It was unfortunate and the way it was handled in that the people involved drove away instead of staying to face the music.

    Also as others have said if he would not have had to handle the firearm it would not have happened.

    Another point is that the gun was brand new and he had not carried it before. This is why practice with a certain firearms before carrying is very important. It is also a good idea to practice loading and unloading at the range many times before Ocing if you do NOT have a CPL as you will have to do it multiple times a day.
    +1
    Don't be too quick to just blame the incredibly ridiculous laws surrounding gun ownership. Personal responsibility is paramount when it comes to handling loaded firearms. A gun needs the trigger pulled (or other operator error) in order to discharge, unless there is a serious problem with it. To this persons credit, it was pointed in a safe direction, so it wasn't the worst possible scenario. Rocks and dirt don't bleed.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

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    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Yes the observance of at least one of the rules is what kept this from being a very bad day.

    That is why there is redundancy built into the gun safety rules.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I hate to sound like a broken record but LEO's have ND's all the time and they are never sited for it......just sayin.......
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    True but we all know that they are held to a diff standard in most places... not that it is right.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    It's sadly somewhat true.

    After the picnic ended and most all (but about 3 people) had left, a member who had attended had a negligent discharge in the parking lot.
    What evidence do you have that allowed you to come to the conclusion that the incident was a negligent discharge as opposed to possibly having been an accidental discharge?

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Some people feel there is no such thing as an accidental discharge. I personally feel that both are possible.. as guns can have mechanical problems.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    It's sadly somewhat true.

    After the picnic ended and most all (but about 3 people) had left, a member who had attended had a negligent discharge in the parking lot.
    What evidence do you have that allowed you to come to the conclusion that the incident was a negligent discharge as opposed to possibly having been an accidental discharge?
    http://www.mlive.com/news/kzgazette/...xml&coll=7

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    It's sadly somewhat true.

    After the picnic ended and most all (but about 3 people) had left, a member who had attended had a negligent discharge in the parking lot.
    What evidence do you have that allowed you to come to the conclusion that the incident was a negligent discharge as opposed to possibly having been an accidental discharge?
    As autosurgeon said: There's no such thing as an accidental discharge in my book. Anytime you didn't intend for the gun to go off and it does, it's due to negligence.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    It's sadly somewhat true.

    After the picnic ended and most all (but about 3 people) had left, a member who had attended had a negligent discharge in the parking lot.
    What evidence do you have that allowed you to come to the conclusion that the incident was a negligent discharge as opposed to possibly having been an accidental discharge?
    As autosurgeon said: There's no such thing as an accidental discharge in my book. Anytime you didn't intend for the gun to go off and it does, it's due to negligence.
    I asked you what evidence you have that it was a negligent discharge. You, not autosurgeon, are the one that made the quoted statement as if it were a matter of fact.

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    It's sadly somewhat true.

    After the picnic ended and most all (but about 3 people) had left, a member who had attended had a negligent discharge in the parking lot.
    What evidence do you have that allowed you to come to the conclusion that the incident was a negligent discharge as opposed to possibly having been an accidental discharge?
    As autosurgeon said: There's no such thing as an accidental discharge in my book. Anytime you didn't intend for the gun to go off and it does, it's due to negligence.
    I asked you what evidence you have that it was a negligent discharge. You, not autosurgeon, are the one that made the quoted statement as if it were a matter of fact.
    Did the gun fire a round? Yes.
    Was the shot intended? No.

    Therefore, a negligent discharge occurred.

    Negligence is defined as: Failure to take proper care in doing something.

    He succeeded in caring for muzzle control, but he did not properly mind his trigger control.

    Even if the shot was an accident (many negligent discharges are), it was still negligent.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I was shot by my CZ52 when it fell on the ground, and I believe that was negligence, not an accident. Same as in this case, because he chambered a modern handgun, then pulled the trigger and it fired.

    Trying to call that an accident, to me, holds no merit. It serves as a great lesson for all of us, especially those newer to guns. Obey the 4 rules, use good equipment, and don't carry chambered or do anything else with guns unless you are beyond confident in your ability to do it safely.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    It's sadly somewhat true.

    After the picnic ended and most all (but about 3 people) had left, a member who had attended had a negligent discharge in the parking lot.
    What evidence do you have that allowed you to come to the conclusion that the incident was a negligent discharge as opposed to possibly having been an accidental discharge?
    As autosurgeon said: There's no such thing as an accidental discharge in my book. Anytime you didn't intend for the gun to go off and it does, it's due to negligence.
    I asked you what evidence you have that it was a negligent discharge. You, not autosurgeon, are the one that made the quoted statement as if it were a matter of fact.
    Did the gun fire a round? Yes.
    Was the shot intended? No.

    Therefore, a negligent discharge occurred.

    Negligence is defined as: Failure to take proper care in doing something.

    He succeeded in caring for muzzle control, but he did not properly mind his trigger control.

    Even if the shot was an accident (many negligent discharges are), it was still negligent.
    So by your illogical conclusion I can ascertain that all of the collisions caused by sudden acceleration of Toyota vehicles are the result of negligent drivers and they should be charged criminally for such?

    You obviously have a very limited amount of firearm experience and/or involvement.

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    Michigander wrote:
    I was shot by my CZ52 when it fell on the ground, and I believe that was negligence, not an accident. Same as in this case, because he chambered a modern handgun, then pulled the trigger and it fired.

    Trying to call that an accident, to me, holds no merit. It serves as a great lesson for all of us, especially those newer to guns. Obey the 4 rules, use good equipment, and don't carry chambered or do anything else with guns unless you are beyond confident in your ability to do it safely.
    I have always given you the benefit of doubt in this incident. You have a severely defective firearm. It failed the simple drop test that all firearms are required.

    As I have stated to you before, the only negligence in your incident was owning a gun from some former Soviet Bloc country.

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    So by your illogical conclusion I can ascertain that all of the collisions caused by sudden acceleration of Toyota vehicles are the result of negligent drivers and they should be charged criminally for such?

    You obviously have a very limited amount of firearm experience and/or involvement.
    How is a car in any way similar to the way a gun operates? A full-auto - MAYBE, but those are a VERY small minority in the guns that a civilian typically sees in their lifetimes.

    If a mechanical failure causes a hammer to drop over a live round - that could be an accidental discharge - but it could also be that the owner of the firearm was negligent in maintaining the gun.

    If there's a manufacturer's defect which causes discharge - that's accidental. But that's also (anecdotally) a VERY minor percentage of discharges.

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