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Thread: NOW you've done it! California Legislator Lori Saldaña of San Diego trying to ban Open Carry.

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    Just found the following article, it appears that California Lawmaker Lori Saldaña of San Diego is introducing legislation to ban Open Carry in public in California.

    However, if they were actually able to pass it, I suspect this would actually backfire on them by sparking lawsuits claiming infringement of 2nd Amendment rights (as Incorporation seems likely) and actually end up GUARANTEEING the right, not only for open carry, but LOADED open carry for all, in all the states!

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/03...arry-gun-right


    California lawmaker would outlaw 'open carry' gun right
    Gun owners have been meeting in coffee shops, parks, and restaurants wearing holstered weapons. California Assembly Member Lori Saldaña says 'open carry' of guns can create ‘potentially dangerous situations.’

    By Michael B. Farrell Staff writer / March 10, 2010

    San Francisco

    A California lawmaker has stepped into a growing gun rights debate by introducing legislation that would essentially outlaw what's called the "open carry" of unloaded weapons on public property.

    The measure, which was first introduced last month but is not expected to have its first hearing until April, is meant to address the growing “open carry” movement, in which some gun owners have taken to meeting in coffee shops, parks, and restaurants while wearing holstered weapons to raise awareness about gun rights.

    “People should be free from the fear and the potential for violence firearms represent,” said Democratic Assembly Member Lori Saldaña of San Diego, in a statement. “These displays of firearms can create potentially dangerous situations.”

    Assembly Member Saldaña said she was compelled to introduce the bill to limit the open carry law in California, which is one of at least 38 states that allows the display of unconcealed weapons, following a gathering of some 60 armed open carry advocates at a southern California beach.

    “People were understandably concerned,” she said. “The police were called and the situation became frightening for the families simply enjoying a day at the beach.”

    In recent months, members of the grass-roots open carry movement have been turning up at many Bay Area cafes. In addition to bringing attention to gun laws, which allow unconcealed and unloaded weapons to be carried without a permit, the groups are also making a statement about the difficulty of obtaining concealed weapons permits.

    In a Monitor interview last month, Bay Area open carry advocate David LaTour said that unless someone is “well connected” politically, concealed weapons permits are essentially unobtainable.

    Following gatherings at Peet’s Coffee & Tea and California Pizza Kitchen, both chains opted to ban guns from their premises. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has called on Starbucks to follow suit.

    But the coffee chain, which has been thrust uncomfortably in the middle of this gun debate, said that it would abide by local laws and that the issues surrounding open carry should be decided in legislatures and courts.

    While the bill proposes placing limits on openly displaying weapons in public, it does not propose limits within businesses.

    Stanford University law professor Robert Weisberg, an expert on gun laws, says it's unlikely that the California legislature would endorse Saldaña’s bill. “The great majority from both political parties don’t want to cross the gun lobby,” he says.

    While the National Rifle Association, the nation’s most influential gun rights group, appears to have distanced itself from the open carry movement, it probably would back efforts to defeat any move to limit California's open carry law, says Professor Weisberg.

    “The safest course for the NRA would be to say it's unconstitutional and provide some legal assistance” to stop the measure, Weisberg says. He says the NRA is uncomfortable with the permissiveness of the open carry movement and may worry it could endanger laws that protect carrying concealed weapons.

    In some ways, Weisberg says, provoking a Democratic California lawmaker to go after open carry laws is a boon for the movement. “They wanted a generic California liberal to attack them," he says, "and they have succeeded in that regard.”

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    She should be careful what she asks for - could cost the state a lot of money.

    Awaiting SCOTUS decision with great anticipation.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Ms. Lori Saldaña, how do you think openly carrying firearms creates a "potentially" dangerous situation? Outside of an officer of the law unnecessarily escalating the situation by ignoring his or her directives, please explain how someone lawfully carrying their weapon visibly while holstered and retained is dangerous? Dangerous situations occur when criminals take advantage of unarmed people.

    Rape, serious injury, and death are bound to occur when no appropriate measure to protect life is available. And yes, guns are are appropriate. You think you want someone with a gun to get within fifteen of you to use that taser? Or even closer to use your pepper spray? Not all criminals encounter their victims within close personal range and by the time they do, it may be too late to use something less-than-lethal.

    To Hell With Not Being Armed!

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    I was watching Fight Science last night, and that Karachi fellow got hit with a Taser from like 15 feet, he then was able to not only remove the electrodes before he hit the ground, but then quickly got right back up and started to walk towards the guy using the Taser against him.

    He was not wearing a shirt andI could see the elcetrode and wires stuck in his body. Firearms are THE way to go IMO.

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    Seems pretty well to be expected. We the gun owning public are pushing harder than ever to regain our rights thanks to the organization we now have through the web. You can't expect the anti's to lose all their ground without a fuss.

    Unless the SCOTUS comes to a conclusion that the 2a doesn't apply to the states, this can't possibly do anything but create publicity for open carrying. Seems to me like a good thing.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Just another projecting, fear mongering, rabid anti beatin' that same tired alarmist drum.

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    Michigander wrote:
    Seems pretty well to be expected. We the gun owning public are pushing harder than ever to regain our rights thanks to the organization we now have through the web. You can't expect the anti's to lose all their ground without a fuss.

    Unless the SCOTUS comes to a conclusion that the 2a doesn't apply to the states, this can't possibly do anything but create publicity for open carrying. Seems to me like a good thing.
    It seems the fight for the RKBA is swelling and gaining a lot of ground lately, we all need to do what we can to keep this going, and we can win some decisive victories for freedom!

    If anyone wonders why we're fighting so hard when there's no major threats to our rights right now, I'm reminded of this quote:

    "If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Winston Churchill

    ...Orygunner...

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    Life is a potentially dangerous situation.

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    Actually Lori Saldaña is right. Think about it, she wants to "essentially outlaw what's called the "open carry" of unloaded weapons on public property." And, "These displays of firearms can create potentially dangerous situations."


    The reason I say she is right is because open carry of an unloaded firearm is just as dangerous as to the bearer as a person with a wad of money on both hands waving it around to the crowd. Its already proving to be difficult to obtain legal firearms in CA and the bad guys will certainly be targeting bearers of unloaded open carry weapons. If you hafta carry an unloaded open carry weapon, you would be better off with a baseball bat or hatchet. I don’t see the point in spending several hundred dollars for a club that has the appearance and function of a handgun that will never be used as a handgun.

    So in closing, yes CA does need to change the open carry laws and allow for open carry of loaded weapons in public. Or if Saldaña and the public at large have concerns with the perception of seeing open carry firearms, then perhaps CA should move to a "No permit concealed carry" law. That way the public will not hafta see exposed firearms and the anti-gun pansy fear mongers will be able to sleep better not having seen a bunch of "gun toting right wing extremist radicals" running around town.

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    Do you see now, why I left that state?

    What preposterous stupidity someone must cling to in order to somehow equate an unloaded firearm, of all things, with "imminent danger". Californian UOCer's should open carry paperweights.

    Surely the act of carrying in almost EVERY OTHER STATE of LOADED HANDGUNS with no reported incidents of personal or civil injury would be just TRAGIC in the gas lamp district, am I right?

    Once incorporation happens, and it will, what will the fear-mongers grasp for to try and substantiate their foundation-less arguments?

    It's not that her intentions aren't good, it's just that she knows so much that she really doesn't. (Yeah, I stole it from Reagan, so sue me.)
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    Basic wrote:

    Actually Lori Saldaña is right. Think about it, she wants to "essentially outlaw what's called the "open carry" of unloaded weapons on public property." And, "These displays of firearms can create potentially dangerous situations."


    The reason I say she is right is because open carry of an unloaded firearm is just as dangerous as to the bearer as a person with a wad of money on both hands waving it around to the crowd. Its already proving to be difficult to obtain legal firearms in CA and the bad guys will certainly be targeting bearers of unloaded open carry weapons. If you hafta carry an unloaded open carry weapon, you would be better off with a baseball bat or hatchet. I don’t see the point in spending several hundred dollars for a club that has the appearance and function of a handgun that will never be used as a handgun.

    So in closing, yes CA does need to change the open carry laws and allow for open carry of loaded weapons in public. Or if Saldaña and the public at large have concerns with the perception of seeing open carry firearms, then perhaps CA should move to a "No permit concealed carry" law. That way the public will not hafta see exposed firearms and the anti-gun pansy fear mongers will be able to sleep better not having seen a bunch of "gun toting right wing extremist radicals" running around town.
    I would agree in so much that the practice of "unloaded carry" (UOC) seems hazardous in that it creates the potential for a person carrying is such manner to be disarmed and assaulted, before they can laod and ready the weapon. Making it legal to OC "loaded" would be safer.

    Adopting a "Shall Issue" policy in California would be a massive improvement over the current "May Issue, depending on who you are" policy.

    I also believe that incorporation of 2A will put the stops on Saldanas' bill.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    What?? People are exercising rights in CA?? :shock: We need to put a stop to this right now!!!!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    The measure, which was first introduced last month but is not expected to have its first hearing until April, is meant to address the growing “open carry” movement, in which some gun owners have taken to meeting in coffee shops, parks, and restaurants while wearing holstered weapons to raise awareness about gun rights.
    So, is this an infringement on RKBA, right to peaceably assemble, or freedom of speech?

    I'd vote "yes".

    That's going to make for a hell of a field day in court. :celebrate
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    The measure, which was first introduced last month but is not expected to have its first hearing until April, is meant to address the growing “open carry” movement, in which some gun owners have taken to meeting in coffee shops, parks, and restaurants while wearing holstered weapons to raise awareness about gun rights.
    So, is this an infringement on RKBA, right to peaceably assemble, or freedom of speech?

    I'd vote "yes".

    That's going to make for a hell of a field day in court. :celebrate
    Its a threefer.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Whenever I heara female anti's rant, I have a fantasy of locking her in a small room with Tess for a few hours.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

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    riverrat10k wrote:
    Whenever I heara female anti's rant, I have a fantasy of locking her in a small room with Tess for a few hours.
    I've seen the results of that and it wasn't pretty - didn't take but a few minutes either.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I am an independent voter living in Ms Saldana's district. I disagree with AB1394. I have informed her office that I will not be supporting her during the primary (In California Independents can choose which party primary that they want to vote in) and the fall elections.

    I have not liked her voting record from the beginning. She is in a Democratic district but this district has had Republican representives.

    From the fifty plus times my block wall has been the subject of Gang Graffiti may be she is trying to save us from more gang violence. But I doubt it.

    My hope is that maybe her proposed bill can upset enough law abiding gun owners to support a candidate to defeat her in the upcoming election. I hope so.



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    bargainbob wrote:
    From the fifty plus times my block wall has been the subject of Gang Graffiti may be she is trying to save us from more gang violence. But I doubt it.
    Oh, I'm sure she is trying. Problem is she's either part of a massive anti conspiracy or just ignorant of the consequences of her proposed actions. Remember, kids. Never attribute to malice that which can be best explained by ignorance.
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

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