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Thread: Non-citizen OC & Gun Ownership?

  1. #1
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    I have met a few people recently that are not citizens of the USA but are here legally and I am not sure how they fit into the gun ownership and carry laws.

    So 1) are there any (additional) restrictions to buy a gun if you are not a citizen.

    2) What about CHP permits for non-citizens?
    3) I assume that if you can legally buy a gun you would be able to OC it regardless of citizenship, right?

    I have also considered taking one of the persons to the range for some target practice but didn't know if there were any other things to look out for.

    I wonder since the supreme court is determining if the 2A applies to states, how would the 2A apply to non-citizens? I would have posted this under "General Discussion" but the people I am talking about are in VA.

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    Regular Member Jero1987's Avatar
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    As far as I understand the law, you have to be able to legally own a firearm to OC it. Seeing that they are not citizens of the USA, they would not be able to legally own the firearm.

    As far as taking them to the range, I do not believe this extends to using the firearm.

    That is just my $00.02.

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    Jero1987 wrote:
    As far as I understand the law, you have to be able to legally own a firearm to OC it. Seeing that they are not citizens of the USA, they would not be able to legally own the firearm.

    As far as taking them to the range, I do not believe this extends to using the firearm.

    That is just my $00.02.
    Please cite your source.

    My father is a legal alien that purchased his sidearm lawfully at a dealer by providing his alien status and showing legal presence in Virginia.

    He also open carries and has never had an issue doing so.

    From

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

    Does one have to have U.S. citizenship to be eligible to purchase a firearm?
    A buyer who is not a citizen of the United States must have lawful alien status and must establish that he or she is a resident of a state by providing a valid photo identification and documentation such as a utility bill or lease agreement which would establish that he or she has resided in the state for at least 90 days prior to the date of the sale.

    Congress has passed prohibitions that apply to "any alien in the United States in a non-immigrant status" with certain exceptions and a waiver process. Contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives if you have questions about these regulations.

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    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    Jero1987 wrote:
    Seeing that they are not citizens of the USA, they would not be able to legally own the firearm.
    That's actualy incorrect. You don't have to be a citizen to own firearms. Permanent residents are allowed to purchase even via FFLs. I know that my FFL friend in another state (per BATFE guidelines) is supposed to collect additional proof of presence in the U.S. (e.g. recent utility bills). I have met one such gentleman here in VA who is from the UK, has a green card and has bought multiple firearms from FFLs without a problem. He even has a CHP that I have personally seen when he used it at a gun shop as an ID. Since carry permits are issued by states some states do require citizenship, but I guess some do not.

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input. Since there are sections of the form that ask about US citizenship and a place to list other citizenship I wasn't sure if that was something that was allowed or a disqualifier like if you accidentally checked yes/no incorrectly on another part of the form.

    My opinion would be if you are here legally the same gun rights should be allowed but the laws often don't seem to conform to my opinions.

    I'll forward the good news onto my friend. Thanks.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    There is an important and severe restriction not yet mentioned. Non-resident aliens (visa holders), cannot possess 'assault firearms' in Virginia it is a class 6 felony.

    ETA: Non resident aliens also must have a hunting license to possess arms or ammunition, see post below for cite.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...+18.2-308.2C01

    § 18.2-308.2:01. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by certain persons.
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport any assault firearm or to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, an assault firearm.
    B. It shall be unlawful for any person who is not a citizen of the United States and who is not lawfully present in the United States to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport any firearm or to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, any firearm. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony.
    C. For purposes of this section, "assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.
    (1993, c. 674; 2003, c. 976; 2004, cc. 347, 995; 2008, c. 408.)




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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    There is an important and severe restriction not yet mentioned. Non-resident aliens (visa holders), cannot possess 'assault firearms' in Virginia it is a class 6 felony.
    Hence the requirement to provide an additional ID proving citizenship when purchasing an "assault rifle" that so many gripe about. This was put in place after the shootings outside the CIA at Langley a number of years ago.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    My wife is from Croatia and is aLEGAL permanent resident of the United States. She has a valid CHP issued by Isle of Wight County, carries a 2" .357 Magnum 2" revolver everyday, concealed or open, and also has her own rifle (EBR) and shotgun.

    Yes! It is legal for a non-citizen to own and carry firearms in the United States. They just have to be here LEGALLY!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Not quite true, visa holders (nonresident aliens) are generally prohibited from possessing arms and ammunition under federal law, unless they meet the exceptions such as having a hunting license.


    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...2----000-.html

    (g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
    (5) who, being an alien— 8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));


    to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

    (y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant Visas.— 8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(3)); and 8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)).

    (2) Exceptions.— Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—

    (A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

    (B) an official representative of a foreign government who is— (i) accredited to the United States Government or the Government’s mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or (ii) en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;

    (C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or

    (D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.





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    Jero1987 wrote:
    As far as I understand the law, you have to be able to legally own a firearm to OC it. Seeing that they are not citizens of the USA, they would not be able to legally own the firearm.
    Under equal protection doctrine, aliens cannot be singled out for different treatment than American citizens.

    Under federal preemption doctrine, states cannot make up their own rules for aliens.

    As a result, federal law explicitly allows resident aliens, and some other legal non-immigrant aliens, to buy, possess, and carry guns.

    and state law should not discriminate against aliens either; suits to enforce gun rights for aliens under these doctrines have prevailed, most recently in Kentucky re concealed handgun permits.

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    Regular Member apollosmom's Avatar
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    Like ODA 226 sez....the real Apollosmomremains a German citizen, but has had a green card since 1980. She has favored her Smith Ladysmith ever sinceI gave it to her for her birthday...purchased through Franconia Jagd in Dusseldorf via our Rod and Gun Club, many, many moons ago. During a tour in Fairbanks, she took flying lessons and complied with Alaska law by packing our Mossy 500. Unfortunately, JAG advised we Army Aviators were exempt from Alaska law when flying....sure, we complied "wink wink"...

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    I'm still a little confused about this subject. A co-worker asked me about this today and I told him I would find the answer. He moved here recently from El Salvador and is in the US legally, but is not a citizen. He wants a shotgun to keep in his home. I told him that I'd be more than happy to give him a deal on one of mine if it was legal. So my question is...would that be legal?

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter45 View Post
    I'm still a little confused about this subject. A co-worker asked me about this today and I told him I would find the answer. He moved here recently from El Salvador and is in the US legally, but is not a citizen. He wants a shotgun to keep in his home. I told him that I'd be more than happy to give him a deal on one of mine if it was legal. So my question is...would that be legal?
    He must be a legal, PERMENANT RESIDENT, a GREEN CARD HOLDER to buy or possess a weapon.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    He must be a legal, PERMENANT RESIDENT, a GREEN CARD HOLDER to buy or possess a weapon.
    Are "Green Cards" only issued to "legal permanent residents", or is/are there other categories of individuals who qualify for one? Can one be a "legal permaent resident" and not have a "green card"?

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    He must be a legal, PERMENANT RESIDENT, a GREEN CARD HOLDER to buy or possess a weapon.
    doesn't seem right ODA 226. Got a cite for that requirement?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    See my cite above, visa holders can possess if they have a hunting license.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longwatch View Post
    See my cite above, visa holders can possess if they have a hunting license.
    Longwatch is correct here. I was thinking buying and carrying concealed.
    Last edited by ODA 226; 07-10-2010 at 01:13 PM.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Are "Green Cards" only issued to "legal permanent residents", or is/are there other categories of individuals who qualify for one? Can one be a "legal permaent resident" and not have a "green card"?
    A "Green Card", which isn't green BTW, is a "Permanent Resident Card". You must be a legal, permanent resident of the US in order to have one.

    The answer to your second question is NO.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Hunting licenses are cheap, might be easiest work around. Also, your friends right to self defense is one of those things that may be illegal yet morally correct. I'm just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    Hunting licenses are cheap, might be easiest work around. Also, your friends right to self defense is one of those things that may be illegal yet morally correct. I'm just saying.
    I'll just have him purchase a hunting license then. He can't really afford to buy a gun, so I'm going to just give him one of my older shotguns. He has told me some stories about the neighborhood he lives in, and after hearing them I really want to help him out.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longwatch View Post
    There is an important and severe restriction not yet mentioned. Non-resident aliens (visa holders), cannot possess 'assault firearms' in Virginia it is a class 6 felony.

    ETA: Non resident aliens also must have a hunting license to possess arms or ammunition, see post below for cite.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...+18.2-308.2C01

    § 18.2-308.2:01. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by certain persons.
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport any assault firearm or to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, an assault firearm.
    B. It shall be unlawful for any person who is not a citizen of the United States and who is not lawfully present in the United States to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport any firearm or to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, any firearm. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony.
    C. For purposes of this section, "assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.
    (1993, c. 674; 2003, c. 976; 2004, cc. 347, 995; 2008, c. 408.)
    Where does Virginia law say hunting license?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  22. #22
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Where does Virginia law say hunting license?
    The cited reference to hunting licenses was back in Post #9, and it is a federal law, not a Virginia law.

    TFred

  23. #23
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I can tell you that as an FYI, Utah has this info on the app for a Utah permit...

    VERIFICATIONS:
    If you are a resident alien or naturalized citizen you must include your Alien Registration Number or INS Registration Number on your application and fingerprint card. PLEASE DO NOT SEND A COPY OF YOUR PASSPORT!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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