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Thread: First time OC

  1. #1
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    Went to the music store to buy some drumsticks and next door to get some keys made at the hardware store.

    I felt pretty concerned knowing there are no laws against carrying unloaded in a holster fully viable.. I had the laws printed out in my pocket and my iphone (takes video).

    I am still a little worried about someone calling in and saying I was "brandishing" it, or for someone to say I was covering it/a cop saying he saw me having it concealed....

    any words of wisdom?

    thanks

  2. #2
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    Tintman wrote:
    I felt pretty concerned knowing there are no laws against carrying unloaded in a holster fully viable.. I had the laws printed out in my pocket and my iphone (takes video).

    I am still a little worried about someone calling in and saying I was "brandishing" it, or for someone to say I was covering it/a cop saying he saw me having it concealed....

    any words of wisdom?

    thanks



    Get a better video recorder that you can use exclusively while UOC.

    There is no brandishing without intent, you must physically wield the gun in a threatening manner. Simply having it on your person does not qualify.

    There is no description of "holster" in the law, only that it must worn openly (no inside the waistband types). A full flap is still legal, despite the obvious fact that it completely covers the handgun.

    Forget the worry, go on with your private business in the manner you are accustomed to. When/if the LEO's arrive; be cordial, be factual, do not speak any more than required. If walking about, you do not need to carry any ID, and many of us do not while carrying ( I leave my drivers license in my truck). The LEO may tell you otherwise, but there is no "stop and identify" law in Calli. If you are fully aware you have done nothing illegal, there will be no RAS (reasonably articulated suspicion)for the LEO to act upon, though they may say that a man With A Gun call gives them RAS....it does not. There is nothing illegal about a man, with a gun.

    The law ONLY allows them to check for a loaded firearm ("e" check)...nothing more

    Should they physically detain you, ask repeatedly;"Am Ibeing detained or arrested, and am I free to leave now?" If they begin a pat down, remind them of the illegality of a "Terry" search that denies your 4th Amendment rights....then shut up completely. Not one more word. No law forces you to speak to an LEO when you have done nothing wrong.

    Be aware, that being taken to jail is a possibility. Make sure you tell someone where you are going, so you can make your phone call to THAT PERSON.That person can get the legal ball...and possibly bail...rolling immediately.

    UOC ain't for sissies, so wrap your head around the fact that LEO's do not knowgun laws and can/may/will violate your rights and ruin your day/weekend.



    Have fun




  3. #3
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    Army wrote:
    Tintman wrote:
    I felt pretty concerned knowing there are no laws against carrying unloaded in a holster fully viable.. * I had the laws printed out in my pocket and my iphone (takes video). *

    I am still a little worried about someone calling in and saying I was "brandishing" it, or for someone to say I was covering it/a cop saying he saw me having it concealed....

    any words of wisdom?

    thanks
    Watch the training videos.



    Get a better video recorder that you can use exclusively while UOC.

    There is no brandishing without intent, you must physically wield the gun in a threatening manner. Simply having it on your person does not qualify.

    There is no description of "holster" in the law, only that it must worn openly (no inside the waistband types). A full flap is still legal, despite the obvious fact that it completely covers the handgun.

    Forget the worry, go on with your private business in the manner you are accustomed to. When/if the LEO's arrive; be cordial, be factual, do not speak any more than required. If walking about, you do not need to carry any ID, and many of us do not while carrying ( I leave my drivers license in my truck). The LEO may tell you otherwise, but there is no "stop and identify" law in Calli. If you are fully aware you have done nothing illegal, there will be no RAS (reasonably articulated suspicion)*for the LEO to act upon, though they may say that a man With A Gun call gives them RAS....it does not. There is nothing illegal about a man, with a gun.

    The law ONLY allows them to check for a loaded firearm ("e" check)...nothing more

    Should they physically detain you, ask repeatedly;*"Am I*being detained or arrested, and am I free to leave now?" If they begin a pat down, remind them of the illegality of a "Terry" search that denies your 4th Amendment rights....then shut up completely. Not one more word. No law forces you to speak to an LEO when you have done nothing wrong.

    Be aware, that being taken to jail is a possibility. Make sure you tell someone where you are going, so you can make your phone call to THAT PERSON.*That person can get the legal ball...and possibly bail...*rolling immediately.

    UOC ain't for sissies, so wrap your head around the fact that LEO's do not know*gun laws and can/may/will violate your rights and ruin your day/weekend.

    *

    Have fun



  4. #4
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    Army wrote:
    Tintman wrote:
    I felt pretty concerned knowing there are no laws against carrying unloaded in a holster fully viable.. I had the laws printed out in my pocket and my iphone (takes video).

    I am still a little worried about someone calling in and saying I was "brandishing" it, or for someone to say I was covering it/a cop saying he saw me having it concealed....

    any words of wisdom?

    thanks



    Get a better video recorder that you can use exclusively while UOC. I have no arguement with this-I would add that having something that you can hang around your neck would be best, keeping your hands free ofanything that might look suspicious.

    There is no brandishing without intent, you must physically wield the gun in a threatening manner. Simply having it on your person does not qualify. I disagree with this in part. The PC lists the elements of the crime as display in a rude, angry or threatening manner. 'Display' doesnt necessarily mean 'handle'- its possible to brandish without the weapon leaving the holster. This could be completed by open carrying (display) and using language, posture or gestures that could be construed as rude, angry or threatening... Making threatening statements regarding using the weapon (might be more of a AWD charge). Actions such as placing your hand on the weapon as if to draw...Using your body language to convey your intent to use the weapon in an altercation.

    There is no description of "holster" in the law, only that it must worn openly (no inside the waistband types). A full flap is still legal, despite the obvious fact that it completely covers the handgun. Agreed. I would still make my intentions as clear as possible by selecting the holster that maintains the weapon in plain sight.

    Forget the worry, go on with your private business in the manner you are accustomed to. When/if the LEO's arrive; be cordial, be factual, do not speak any more than required. If walking about, you do not need to carry any ID, and many of us do not while carrying ( I leave my drivers license in my truck). The LEO may tell you otherwise, but there is no "stop and identify" law in Calli. If you are fully aware you have done nothing illegal, there will be no RAS (reasonably articulated suspicion)for the LEO to act upon, though they may say that a man With A Gun call gives them RAS....it does not. There is nothing illegal about a man, with a gun. Completely agree. Conduct yourself naturally and put your mouth in neutral.

    The law ONLY allows them to check for a loaded firearm ("e" check)...nothing more

    Should they physically detain you, ask repeatedly;"Am Ibeing detained or arrested, and am I free to leave now?" If they begin a pat down, remind them of the illegality of a "Terry" search that denies your 4th Amendment rights....then shut up completely. Not one more word. No law forces you to speak to an LEO when you have done nothing wrong. I think I would ask each question once and leave it at that. Im not sure how I feel about 'warning' an officer about how a 'Terry' search isnt permissable- If they want to pat you down, they are going to do it regardless of what you say.

    Be aware, that being taken to jail is a possibility. Make sure you tell someone where you are going, so you can make your phone call to THAT PERSON.That person can get the legal ball...and possibly bail...rolling immediately.

    UOC ain't for sissies, so wrap your head around the fact that LEO's do not knowgun laws and can/may/will violate your rights and ruin your day/weekend. Until the academy begins teachingabout armed citizen encountersand teaching that disarming the law abiding is unnecessary, there will always be a possibility of being hooked up.Before that happens we will have to teach them, one officer at a time.



    Have fun


    My commentary in red.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  5. #5
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    There are several elements of the crime, not just the one of "displayed". The DA would have to prove both 1 AND 2 happened without a defense of 3.

    I stumbled on this a while ago and decided that this is the best way to communicate PC because it is the actual jury instructions the court will use in cases. It much more clearly defines the elements needed to get a conviction.

    If you are interested CalCrim Jury Instructions are included. They have all the standard jury instructions for most of the penal code (but surprisingly not 626.9, they had to develop a unique one for my case.)



    CalCrim jury instructions

    983. Brandishing Firearm or Deadly Weapon: Misdemeanor (Pen. Code, § 417(a)(1) & (2))

    1. The defendant drew or exhibited a (firearm/deadly weapon) in the immediate presence of someone else;

    [AND]

    <Alternative 2A—displayed in rude, angry, or threatening manner>
    [2. The defendant did so in a rude, angry, or threatening manner(;/.)]

    <Alternative 2B—used in fight>
    [2. The defendant [unlawfully] used the (firearm/deadly weapon) in a fight or quarrel(;/.)]

    <Give element 3 when instructing on self-defense or defense of another.>

    [AND 3.

    The defendant did not act (in self-defense/ [or] in defense of
    someone else).]

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