View Poll Results: When I choose to carry a firearm:

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  • I always open carry (I don't have a CPL, so I can't concealed carry)

    6 13.33%
  • I always open carry (even though I have a CPL).

    1 2.22%
  • I usually open carry.

    9 20.00%
  • I sometimes open carry, sometimes concealed carry.

    23 51.11%
  • I usually concealed carry.

    4 8.89%
  • I always concealed carry, unless CC is illegal or impossible in a given situation.

    1 2.22%
  • I always concealed carry, if CC is illegal or impractical, I just don't carry.

    1 2.22%
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Thread: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry ... your reasons for choosing OC?

  1. #1
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    First, my apologies if this topic has already been covered. I searched the forum and couldn't find an appropriate thread ... but I may have just searched the wrong key words.

    Second, I just want to make it clear that I support both OC and CC ... this thread is NOT intended to convince people that CC is better: I started it because I'd like to learn something.

    Having said that ... I am curious as to why those of you who choose to carry primarily open do so?

    Even though I know that OC is legal in Michigan, I must admit that I've never done it. About the closest I've come is just throwing an open jacket or flannel shirt over a medium frame .357 magnum revolver in a belt holster (when hiking out in the wilderness). Not exactly open ... but certainly not concealed past the "first glance" level. Whenever I'm "in public" I always CC with an IWB holster.

    My reasoning is both tactical and practical.

    Tactical because if something does "go down" I'd like the element of surprise: rather than having the criminal KNOW I'm armed (and perhaps making myself his/her first target) I figure I have a tactical advantage if he/she doesn't know I have a weapon.

    Practical because I'd like to avoid confrontations with members of the general public or LEOs who don't know the law. I just read a thread about an OC experience in Grayling that made my hair stand up on end ... a LEO apparently walked up behind a guy (who was OCing) and tried to GRAB HIS GUN (without first identifying himself). I can see about a million ways that scenario could have ended in tragedy. And what if it hadn't been a LEO (who may have been a doofus, but didn't have ill intent) ... what if it was a criminal? There are also at least a dozen threads that aren't quite as scary, but still involve "harassment" that leads to arguments, tickets, handcuffs etc.

    So for those of you who do OC regularly is it because:

    1) You don't want / see a need to get a CPL (based on the fact that the 2A and Michigan law allows OC)?
    2) You feel there's a tactical advantage to OC (i.e. you can get at your gun more quickly / it's very difficult to CC a large caliber / high capacity firearm)?
    3) You want to make a statement and educate the public about OC?
    4) You feel tactical deterrence outweighs tactical surprise (i.e. bad guy will think twice about a caper if he/she sees there's an armed person around)?
    5) It's just more comfortable to OC (IWB holsters CAN be a pain ... I admit that).

    All of the above? Reasons I'm missing?




  2. #2
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    I prefer open carry, but my wife prefers concealed. So it's about a 50/50 split depending on if she's with me. :-P

  3. #3
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    I opencarry as much as possible

  4. #4
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    Even after I have my CPL, I'll OC as much as possible. Reason, I can carry my full size gun much easier open, my LCP .380 will be my BUG.

  5. #5
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    OK ... cool beans guys ... thanks for replying. Would you mind sharing the reasons WHY (as Scot did). That's really what I'm interested in.

    (In terms of raw numbers, I'm guessing that most folks on an OC forum will tend to OC!)

  6. #6
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    CrimDoc wrote:
    OK ... cool beans guys ... thanks for replying.*** Would you mind sharing the reasons WHY (as Scot did).** That's really what I'm interested in.

    (In terms of raw numbers, I'm guessing that most folks on an OC forum will tend to OC!)
    Why? My reasons are tactical.

    A visibly armed person is never a soft-looking target.

    I am also able to carry a full-size weapon, which is more accurate, and holds more rounds.

  7. #7
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    CrimD
    snip.....

    So for those of you who do OC regularly is it because:

    1) You don't want / see a need to get a CPL (based on the fact that the 2A and Michigan law allows OC)?

    2) You feel there's a tactical advantage to OC (i.e. you can get at your gun more quickly / it's very difficult to CC a large caliber / high capacity firearm)?

    3) You want to make a statement and educate the public about OC?

    4) You feel tactical deterrence outweighs tactical surprise (i.e. bad guy will think twice about a caper if he/she sees there's an armed person around)?

    5) It's just more comfortable to OC (IWB holsters CAN be a pain ... I admit that).

    All of the above? Reasons I'm missing?
    To give you a perspective from another state - Virginia.

    1) I have a CHP, yet I OC 99.8% of the time - the balance I CC.

    2) There is definitely a time advantage to OC.

    3) Education of the public is one of the more important elements. Making a political statement is lower on the priority list.

    4) "Tactical surprise" is an aggressive mind set, not a defensive posture. Deterrence is truly an operative benefit.

    5) Comfort is an acquired thing. I personally prefer a good belt slide holster w/active retention. Being defenseless is uncomfortable and is not an option.

    Also to paraphrase Mike & John, a right unused is a right lost.

    No other person, entity or government is responsible for my safety. I do not care how you carry, but if you chose to do so, do so responsibly. I respect the rights of others and expect them to respect mine.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I concealed and open carry...

    Concealed for a back up gun.

    Open for a variety of reasons..... (in no special order)

    -The gun is easier and faster to get to without any possibility of clothing restricting the grasp/draw sequence.

    -Interested folks see that I am a citizen just like them and become curious enough to ask questions. I then have the opportunity to educate them on the legality of open carry.

    -I believe that open carry is necessary in order to make the sight of a holstered gun a common everyday occurrence as a way of overcoming the decades of fearmongering indulged in by the leftist anti gun agenda.

    -Open carrying a gun is also a statement that I take responsibility for my own safety seriously. A statement that implies that others can do the same.

    -A gun carried concealed makes me look exactly like every other soft target victim in the eyes of the bad guy... there is nothing outwardly showing that I will resist. The supposed "element of surprise" of a concealed gun is far surpassed by the bad guys superior "element of tactical superiority" by being the aggressor and me being at the disadvantage of having to respond hoping to "surprise" him that I have a gun... if I have the opportunity to even get to it. But....

    -A gun in plain sight is a statement to any bad guys looking at me intending to victimize me... it is a statement to the bad guys that I won't submit quietly. A statement that sends said bad guys looking for an easier target... perhaps someone carrying concealed.

    -Open carry is more comfortable.

    -Last, but perhaps the most important reason of all:

    I want to.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  9. #9
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I CC and OC about 50/50

    I like the deterrence factor and the education piece. I also am way faster on the draw OC. So I can get into action much faster!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  10. #10
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    I CC when I have to because I am at work, and also at times out of convenience because I don't have my OC rig with me, or maybe I'm too lazy to put it on. Such as tonight, I was with Evil Creamsicle, he was OCing and I was CCing because I didn't have my Safariland with me.

    I do also at times CC because I am with anti gun family members like my grandma, who is a life long anti gunner, and I won't try to change her ways when she's in her late 80s.

    The worst is at my college classes, and I am disarmed of my gun. But I do have other *defensive strategies*.

    Whatever is left, which seems like it's never enough of the time these days, I OC.

    I prefer OC, because in my personal experience, it scares lowly street criminals, and gets them to high tail it out of my area.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    I carry both ways and it's mostly dependent on what I'm wearing. My jackets all hang lower than my firearm so when the coat is on I'm CC but if it comes off I'm usually OC. In weather that doesn't require a jacket I primarily OC.

    I have several different reasons.

    Sorry for the length of this.

    Tactical: The research that I've read (and I cannot for the life of me remember where I read it) says that a large majority of felons told the researchers that their #1 fear when commiting a crime against another person was that the victim was armed. They also told researchers that they would go for the soft target over the hard target even if the the hard target would garner them a bigger take. They would rather rob 30 little old ladies for $10 each than one muscle bound cage fighter for $300.

    The OC of a firearm places the wearer squarely in the "hard target" category making them a less desirable target.

    Many people say that they prefer CC because they want the "element of surprise", this just doesn't make sense to me. Surprise is a great tactic for an offensive manuever like an ambush but it is a lousy tactic for defending against one. The very fact that you need to draw your weapon means that you are already smack-dab in the middle of a life and death situation....how does surprise help you at that point? According to the NRA in the VAST majority of self-defense uses of a firearm the mere presence of the gun was enough to deter the attacker. Logic tells me that the sooner the presence of the gun is known the sooner the attacker chooses to find another target.

    This brings me to the OODA loop. In any interaction (this is very simplified) we go through a series ofsteps these are Observe, Orient, Decide, and Act. We first observe and take in all the information around us,we then orient to that informationand run it through the filters of our experience, morals, ethics, desires, etc., we then decide what to do and then we do it.

    When a criminal attacks you he is already four steps ahead of you. He is in the Act phase of his OODA loop. He has already observed you and found you to be a desirable target. You on the other hand are on the first stage of your OODA loop as you observe the attack unfolding (hopefully). CC of a firearm does absolutely nothing to affect the attackers OODA loop until you can rally your self to action....at least four steps behind your attacker. OC of a firearm however provides the attacker with information during the initial Observe phase of his loop and that information is that you are most definitely a hard target. It is my contention that CC of a firearm does NOTHING to prevent the attack from ever happening while the deterent effect of OC convinces the majority of criminals to look elswhere.

    Now, onto the idea that if a criminal sees the openly carried firearm that they will choose you as a target and make their attack plans in order to steal your gun.If I put a security system in my house with the window decals that say "protected by XYZ alarm systems" could a criminal interested in breaking into my house go on the internet and learn all about XYZ alarm systems and learn how to disarm them? Sure. Could that criminal get a job with XYZ alarm systems and then learn exactly what system I have so he could disarm it and rob me? Sure he could. But the chances are much higher that he will go down the street to find an easier target that doesn't have an alarm system.

    Are there people who may target you for your gun? Yes there are, but this is a numbers game and I feel the OC of a pistol will offer a deterent to greater number of people than it will entice.

    And due to the way Michigan law is written by OCing AND having a CPL I can legally carry in more places. I can open carry inmost of the PFZswhere a concealed carrier must disarm.

    Technical: Others have mentioned they can draw faster from OC and I agree. I also agree that I can carry a larger firearm and as Clint Smith from Thunder Ranch has said:

    "I never met a man that had been in a gunfight and wished that he had a smaller gun. Ever."
    And for me the most important aspect is that I can easily draw one handed. I don't have to fumble with a cover garment with my off hand. This is important for me becausebeing able to draw one handed frees up my other hand for fending off a physical attack.

    Social: CC of a firearm also does nothing to show the antis and theneutrals that law abiding citizens with firearms are not to be feared. They need to see us WITH our firearms, going about our business with our families and doing normal every day things, with guns on our sides. Fear is bred from unfamiliarity and the only way to make people not fear guns is for them to become familiar with them and the only way for them to become familiar with them is to actually SEE them.

    Political: This one will be short. A right not used is a right given away. I don't say it's lost because if we freely choose to not usethe rights guaranteed to us by the U.S. and Stateconstitutions then we freely give those rightsaway. They were notlostand nobody took them from us. We rolled over and meeklyhanded them over.

    Thanks for askin'

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  12. #12
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    Bronson thanks for sharing that!! You put in words what would have taken me a lifetime to explain to someone. I used your reasons for my blog post on Facebook today. I should print that out and make anyone who CC's and is anti-OC read it and then try to tell me what's wrong with open carry.

  13. #13
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    Bronson,

    Please don't apologize for the length of your reply ... if I hadn't wanted to know, I wouldn't have asked.

  14. #14
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    I do the 50/50 deal. It all depends on where I'm at, whatI'm wearing,and who I'm with. Later, Bob
    Life Member: NRA (Benefactor), GOA, SAF, MUCC, and Case Collectors Club
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  15. #15
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    I do both. It depends on several factors. Where I'm going. Whom I am with. Convenience. Tactical.

    Being currently in a state that has a statute against OC has made me realize that 2 things have happened.

    1. It is very inconvienient to have CC. Can't get out of car to pump gas. Can't ride motorcycle w/o cover.

    2. Tactical... w/o cover I have to carry smaller caliber pocket gun. W/ cover tactical access is hindered. W/O OC deterrent is absent.

  16. #16
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    Most of the time, I CC, because I work long hours, and aren't supposed to have any weapons at work (kind of a wink, wink, as long as it doesn't become a problem with other employees). After work, I OC almost all of the time. Reasons, comfort and draw speed. I am large enough to carrya full sized pistol concealed, but it is much more comfortable to carry in my Serpa, plus I don't have to untuck my shirt with my weakside.

  17. #17
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    First of all, Winter: CC/OC 80/20, Summer: CC/OC 40/60. The reason is this. If I'm wearing a coat or a bigger hoody I CC, because its actually easier. It all comes down to comfort to be honest. If my shirt is tucked in, I'm OCing, if its untucked, and depending on where I am I CC. When I'm at one of my jobs I CC, untill I lock the door at close than I OC, my employees feel safer with me around, or at least that iswhat they say. Also I have an anti cousin and aunt, I CC around these relatives. I normally carry a full size .45acp (G21), I am a larger guy (6" 250lbs), so CC isn't a big deal with most clothes, but I MUCH prefer to use my Blackhawk Serpa, than my ITWB (because I can run, jump and do anything without worry).

    To be honest though If I have lost my Michigan Open Carry Inc. brochure than I CC untill I get around a printer. Luckily, I have never been harassed, even back two years ago, when 99.999% of people didn't know it was legal (and before the brochure came out), but if I do I want to be prepared.

    I hope this answers your questions. Also to everyone on here, I am one of the "veterans" on here I guess (two years), I don't write a lot on here, but I read everyday! I am SO excited that this is taking off so well, and that we are finally getting some good traction, we are gaining members left over right, and I love it! Welcome everyone new! Stay! Read! Learn! Study! Practice Your Rights!!!!!

    God Bless
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    Bam!" - eastmeyers

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  18. #18
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    my reasons for OC over CC are...(remember i dont carry as of yet,but these are my reasons for it,when i actually start to)

    i cant carry concealed until im 21.

    its a provencrime deterrant.(this is the biggest reason)

    its said to be more comfy than CC.

    it brings gun ownership out of the closet.

    its a political statement,and promotes firearm ownership(guess that goes with taking gun ownership out of the closet though)

    its alot easier to carry a full sized handgun openly than concealed.

    faster draw.

    and though this doesnt apply to me either,it does to alot of people.

    you cant carry concealed in PFZ zones,yet you can OC in most PFZ zones if you have a CPL.

    (thanks al for mentioning that,i fixed it)

    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  19. #19
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    my reasons for OC over CC are...(remember i dont carry as of yet,but these are my reasons for it,when i actually start to)

    i cant carry concealed until im 21.

    its a provencrime deterrant.(this is the biggest reason)

    its said to be more comfy than CC.

    it brings gun ownership out of the closet.

    its a political statement,and promotes firearm ownership(guess that goes with taking gun ownership out of the closet though)

    its alot easier to carry a full sized handgun openly than concealed.

    faster draw.

    and though this doesnt apply to me either,it does to alot of people.

    you cant carry concealed in PFZ zones,yet you can OC in most PFZ zones.
    IF you have a CPL.
    Big Gay Al
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    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  20. #20
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    my reasons for OC over CC are...(remember i dont carry as of yet,but these are my reasons for it,when i actually start to)

    i cant carry concealed until im 21.

    its a provencrime deterrant.(this is the biggest reason)

    its said to be more comfy than CC.

    it brings gun ownership out of the closet.

    its a political statement,and promotes firearm ownership(guess that goes with taking gun ownership out of the closet though)

    its alot easier to carry a full sized handgun openly than concealed.

    faster draw.

    and though this doesnt apply to me either,it does to alot of people.

    you cant carry concealed in PFZ zones,yet you can OC in most PFZ zones.
    What is this based on?

    The OP specifically asked the following:
    " I am curious as to why those of you who choose to carry primarily open do so?"


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