Firing Line this morning

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

Ahh, never been there was just wondering .. another anti-OC range. I'd like to see the 2A ranges and anti-2A ranges in a list.. I'd refuse to go there just like I refuse to go to Double Action .. even though it's down the street.

Pro 2A Ranges such as Southside Sportsmans Club in Battle Creek.

Click to expand...

OK, hold on a minute folks!  The Second Amendment applies to the government infringing on the the right to keep and bear arms, not a private entity.  I don't understand why some can't get this.  If a business does not want OC on their property, that does not make then anti 2A.  Now if you don't like it and don't want to do business with them, that's all fine and good, but that does not make them anti-2A.    :banghead:

Click to expand...

Correct. The 2A does apply to the federal government.

Support of it, without qualification, it what determines if an entity is for it or against it.

You can't have it both ways.

Either we stand together. Or we hang alone.

Click to expand...

Yes you can have it both ways, private property and public property are separate.  And they are supposed to be!!!    Any other way to have it is socialism.  Private propert rights are equally important.  If TFL has reasons for not wanting OC in THEIR store, so what.  They may not want you yelling profanity in there either; does that make them anti-1A?

Click to expand...

No comparison.

Yelling profanities in their store is unlawful I believe.

OC is lawful I believe.

Click to expand...

OK, lets mince words.  Profanity my be illegal some places, (wrongly), but it is a constitutionally protected right.  Sheeeeze!

Click to expand...

Unlawful activity is not constitutionally protected.

Click to expand...

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

Ahh, never been there was just wondering .. another anti-OC range. I'd like to see the 2A ranges and anti-2A ranges in a list.. I'd refuse to go there just like I refuse to go to Double Action .. even though it's down the street.

Pro 2A Ranges such as Southside Sportsmans Club in Battle Creek.

Click to expand...

OK, hold on a minute folks! The Second Amendment applies to the government infringing on the the right to keep and bear arms, not a private entity. I don't understand why some can't get this. If a business does not want OC on their property, that does not make then anti 2A. Now if you don't like it and don't want to do business with them, that's all fine and good, but that does not make them anti-2A. :banghead:

Click to expand...

Correct. The 2A does apply to the federal government.

Support of it, without qualification, it what determines if an entity is for it or against it.

You can't have it both ways.

Either we stand together. Or we hang alone.

Click to expand...

Yes you can have it both ways, private property and public property are separate. And they are supposed to be!!! Any other way to have it is socialism. Private propert rights are equally important. If TFL has reasons for not wanting OC in THEIR store, so what. They may not want you yelling profanity in there either; does that make them anti-1A?

Click to expand...

No comparison.

Yelling profanities in their store is unlawful I believe.

OC is lawful I believe.

Click to expand...

OK, lets mince words. Profanity my be illegal some places, (wrongly), but it is a constitutionally protected right. Sheeeeze!

Click to expand...

Unlawful activity is not constitutionally protected.

Click to expand...

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

Ahh, never been there was just wondering .. another anti-OC range. I'd like to see the 2A ranges and anti-2A ranges in a list.. I'd refuse to go there just like I refuse to go to Double Action .. even though it's down the street.

Pro 2A Ranges such as Southside Sportsmans Club in Battle Creek.

Click to expand...

OK, hold on a minute folks! The Second Amendment applies to the government infringing on the the right to keep and bear arms, not a private entity. I don't understand why some can't get this. If a business does not want OC on their property, that does not make then anti 2A. Now if you don't like it and don't want to do business with them, that's all fine and good, but that does not make them anti-2A. :banghead:

Click to expand...

Correct. The 2A does apply to the federal government.

Support of it, without qualification, it what determines if an entity is for it or against it.

You can't have it both ways.

Either we stand together. Or we hang alone.

Click to expand...

Yes you can have it both ways, private property and public property are separate. And they are supposed to be!!! Any other way to have it is socialism. Private propert rights are equally important. If TFL has reasons for not wanting OC in THEIR store, so what. They may not want you yelling profanity in there either; does that make them anti-1A?

Click to expand...

No comparison.

Yelling profanities in their store is unlawful I believe.

OC is lawful I believe.

Click to expand...

OK, lets mince words. Profanity my be illegal some places, (wrongly), but it is a constitutionally protected right. Sheeeeze!

Click to expand...

Unlawful activity is not constitutionally protected.

Click to expand...

Some municipalities have laws against OCing, but its still a constitutionally protected right.

Pat, you just like to be contrary, OK.

They probably don't want you yelling nonsense in their store.

I wouldn't want people openly worshiping satan in my business...does that make me anti-1A?

Click to expand...

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

Ahh, never been there was just wondering .. another anti-OC range. I'd like to see the 2A ranges and anti-2A ranges in a list.. I'd refuse to go there just like I refuse to go to Double Action .. even though it's down the street.

Pro 2A Ranges such as Southside Sportsmans Club in Battle Creek.

Click to expand...

OK, hold on a minute folks! The Second Amendment applies to the government infringing on the the right to keep and bear arms, not a private entity. I don't understand why some can't get this. If a business does not want OC on their property, that does not make then anti 2A. Now if you don't like it and don't want to do business with them, that's all fine and good, but that does not make them anti-2A. :banghead:

Click to expand...

Correct. The 2A does apply to the federal government.

Support of it, without qualification, it what determines if an entity is for it or against it.

You can't have it both ways.

Either we stand together. Or we hang alone.

Click to expand...

Yes you can have it both ways, private property and public property are separate. And they are supposed to be!!! Any other way to have it is socialism. Private propert rights are equally important. If TFL has reasons for not wanting OC in THEIR store, so what. They may not want you yelling profanity in there either; does that make them anti-1A?

Click to expand...

No comparison.

Yelling profanities in their store is unlawful I believe.

OC is lawful I believe.

Click to expand...

OK, lets mince words. Profanity my be illegal some places, (wrongly), but it is a constitutionally protected right. Sheeeeze!

Click to expand...

Unlawful activity is not constitutionally protected.

Click to expand...

Some municipalities have laws against OCing, but its still a constitutionally protected right.

Pat, you just like to be contrary, OK.

They probably don't want you yelling nonsense in their store.

I wouldn't want people openly worshiping satan in my business...does that make me anti-1A?

Click to expand...

Those ordinances are not lawful.

Preaching openly in a store is not lawful.

Click to expand...

I do not support anti-OC establishments period, end of story. If you support them feel free but remember that you're giving your money to a place that is against what we're trying to do here on OCDO. 2A is 2A either you support it or you don't. Telling people a legal method of carry is not allowed in your establishment is anti-2A in my opinion. Take it how you will. This is my opinion and I do not support any place that tells me I cannot carry my firearm in a legal manner especially some place thats suppose to be pro-2A.

As for anti-OC ordinances there are no legal ones in Michigan. You will need to go south to find those.

Click to expand...

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

Ahh, never been there was just wondering .. another anti-OC range. I'd like to see the 2A ranges and anti-2A ranges in a list.. I'd refuse to go there just like I refuse to go to Double Action .. even though it's down the street.

Pro 2A Ranges such as Southside Sportsmans Club in Battle Creek.

Click to expand...

OK, hold on a minute folks! The Second Amendment applies to the government infringing on the the right to keep and bear arms, not a private entity. I don't understand why some can't get this. If a business does not want OC on their property, that does not make then anti 2A. Now if you don't like it and don't want to do business with them, that's all fine and good, but that does not make them anti-2A. :banghead:

Click to expand...

Correct. The 2A does apply to the federal government.

Support of it, without qualification, it what determines if an entity is for it or against it.

You can't have it both ways.

Either we stand together. Or we hang alone.

Click to expand...

Yes you can have it both ways, private property and public property are separate. And they are supposed to be!!! Any other way to have it is socialism. Private propert rights are equally important. If TFL has reasons for not wanting OC in THEIR store, so what. They may not want you yelling profanity in there either; does that make them anti-1A?

Click to expand...

No comparison.

Yelling profanities in their store is unlawful I believe.

OC is lawful I believe.

Click to expand...

OK, lets mince words. Profanity my be illegal some places, (wrongly), but it is a constitutionally protected right. Sheeeeze!

Click to expand...

Unlawful activity is not constitutionally protected.

Click to expand...

Some municipalities have laws against OCing, but its still a constitutionally protected right.

Pat, you just like to be contrary, OK.

They probably don't want you yelling nonsense in their store.

I wouldn't want people openly worshiping satan in my business...does that make me anti-1A?

Click to expand...

Those ordinances are not lawful.

Preaching openly in a store is not lawful.

Click to expand...

I have come to the conclusion that conversing with you is pointless. :celebrate

Click to expand...

mikestilly wrote:

I do not support anti-OC establishments period, end of story. If you support them feel free but remember that you're giving your money to a place that is against what we're trying to do here on OCDO. 2A is 2A either you support it or you don't. Telling people a legal method of carry is not allowed in your establishment is anti-2A in my opinion. Take it how you will. This is my opinion and I do not support any place that tells me I cannot carry my firearm in a legal manner especially some place thats suppose to be pro-2A.

As for anti-OC ordinances there are no legal ones in Michigan. You will need to go south to find those.

Click to expand...

Seems like a very rigid and closed minded stance. They don't want OC'ing in their store. So what. I am under the impression that they have supported MOC events, I could be wrong.

One of the things I am getting from this thread is if you post about TFL, (or some others I suppose), you get taken to task. Seems a bit extreme eh?

Click to expand...

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

I do not support anti-OC establishments period, end of story. If you support them feel free but remember that you're giving your money to a place that is against what we're trying to do here on OCDO. 2A is 2A either you support it or you don't. Telling people a legal method of carry is not allowed in your establishment is anti-2A in my opinion. Take it how you will. This is my opinion and I do not support any place that tells me I cannot carry my firearm in a legal manner especially some place thats suppose to be pro-2A.

As for anti-OC ordinances there are no legal ones in Michigan. You will need to go south to find those.

Click to expand...

Seems like a very rigid and closed minded stance. They don't want OC'ing in their store.  So what.  I am under the impression that they have supported MOC events, I could be wrong. 

One of the things I am getting from this thread is if you post about TFL, (or some others I suppose), you get taken to task.  Seems a bit extreme eh?

Click to expand...

Eh, yes and no.  They posted their opinion of the store and their policies and technically, you took them to task, so it could go either way.  I see where you're coming from, I just don't agree, I don't think anyone is attacking you personally, but more the store, which they have the right to do as much as TFL has the right to ban OC.  Rights isn't what is in question here, it's the ridiculous notion of a gun store banning a legal form of carry, for no other reason than they don't like it.  It's been said before, does a few millimeters of fabric really make anyone safer, CC vs. OC?  It's a tad ridiculous and many here, including myself are tying to change the minds of these stores by not patronizing them and letting them know why.  It's pretty silly that I can OC all day long in Walmart, Best Buy and many other places, but if I want to go to a range, I have to cover with my shirt.  Is it their right, of course, does it make sense, not really.  Nobody is saying we should go down and picket, but why throw money at a store that sells us guns and ammo, but won't let us carry them?

Click to expand...

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

I do not support anti-OC establishments period, end of story. If you support them feel free but remember that you're giving your money to a place that is against what we're trying to do here on OCDO. 2A is 2A either you support it or you don't. Telling people a legal method of carry is not allowed in your establishment is anti-2A in my opinion. Take it how you will. This is my opinion and I do not support any place that tells me I cannot carry my firearm in a legal manner especially some place thats suppose to be pro-2A.

As for anti-OC ordinances there are no legal ones in Michigan. You will need to go south to find those.

Click to expand...

Seems like a very rigid and closed minded stance. They don't want OC'ing in their store. So what. I am under the impression that they have supported MOC events, I could be wrong.

One of the things I am getting from this thread is if you post about TFL, (or some others I suppose), you get taken to task. Seems a bit extreme eh?

Click to expand...

Eh, yes and no. They posted their opinion of the store and their policies and technically, you took them to task, so it could go either way. I see where you're coming from, I just don't agree, I don't think anyone is attacking you personally, but more the store, which they have the right to do as much as TFL has the right to ban OC. Rights isn't what is in question here, it's the ridiculous notion of a gun store banning a legal form of carry, for no other reason than they don't like it. It's been said before, does a few millimeters of fabric really make anyone safer, CC vs. OC? It's a tad ridiculous and many here, including myself are tying to change the minds of these stores by not patronizing them and letting them know why. It's pretty silly that I can OC all day long in Walmart, Best Buy and many other places, but if I want to go to a range, I have to cover with my shirt. Is it their right, of course, does it make sense, not really. Nobody is saying we should go down and picket, but why throw money at a store that sells us guns and ammo, but won't let us carry them?

Click to expand...

FatboyCykes wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

I do not support anti-OC establishments period, end of story. If you support them feel free but remember that you're giving your money to a place that is against what we're trying to do here on OCDO. 2A is 2A either you support it or you don't. Telling people a legal method of carry is not allowed in your establishment is anti-2A in my opinion. Take it how you will. This is my opinion and I do not support any place that tells me I cannot carry my firearm in a legal manner especially some place thats suppose to be pro-2A.

As for anti-OC ordinances there are no legal ones in Michigan. You will need to go south to find those.

Click to expand...

Seems like a very rigid and closed minded stance. They don't want OC'ing in their store. So what. I am under the impression that they have supported MOC events, I could be wrong.

One of the things I am getting from this thread is if you post about TFL, (or some others I suppose), you get taken to task. Seems a bit extreme eh?

Click to expand...

Eh, yes and no. They posted their opinion of the store and their policies and technically, you took them to task, so it could go either way. I see where you're coming from, I just don't agree, I don't think anyone is attacking you personally, but more the store, which they have the right to do as much as TFL has the right to ban OC. Rights isn't what is in question here, it's the ridiculous notion of a gun store banning a legal form of carry, for no other reason than they don't like it. It's been said before, does a few millimeters of fabric really make anyone safer, CC vs. OC? It's a tad ridiculous and many here, including myself are tying to change the minds of these stores by not patronizing them and letting them know why. It's pretty silly that I can OC all day long in Walmart, Best Buy and many other places, but if I want to go to a range, I have to cover with my shirt. Is it their right, of course, does it make sense, not really. Nobody is saying we should go down and picket, but why throw money at a store that sells us guns and ammo, but won't let us carry them?

Click to expand...

Maybe it didn't come out right. I don't think anyone attacked me personally.

As far as TFL policies; it doesn't make sense to you, but it obviously make sense to them, and I respect that. If they allowed OC, I would. They don't so I CC. I'm not worked up about their decision about how to run their store.

For me I guess, OC is about the government not infringing on my right to protect myself. Private property owners can do what they want as far as I concerned, but that's just me. My OP was just about seeing if anyone here would want to join me for some shootin'

Some of us are not as zealous as others; there ought to be room for that.

Click to expand...

a2fireball wrote:

FatboyCykes wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

I do not support anti-OC establishments period, end of story. If you support them feel free but remember that you're giving your money to a place that is against what we're trying to do here on OCDO. 2A is 2A either you support it or you don't. Telling people a legal method of carry is not allowed in your establishment is anti-2A in my opinion. Take it how you will. This is my opinion and I do not support any place that tells me I cannot carry my firearm in a legal manner especially some place thats suppose to be pro-2A.

As for anti-OC ordinances there are no legal ones in Michigan. You will need to go south to find those.

Click to expand...

Seems like a very rigid and closed minded stance. They don't want OC'ing in their store. So what. I am under the impression that they have supported MOC events, I could be wrong.

One of the things I am getting from this thread is if you post about TFL, (or some others I suppose), you get taken to task. Seems a bit extreme eh?

Click to expand...

Eh, yes and no. They posted their opinion of the store and their policies and technically, you took them to task, so it could go either way. I see where you're coming from, I just don't agree, I don't think anyone is attacking you personally, but more the store, which they have the right to do as much as TFL has the right to ban OC. Rights isn't what is in question here, it's the ridiculous notion of a gun store banning a legal form of carry, for no other reason than they don't like it. It's been said before, does a few millimeters of fabric really make anyone safer, CC vs. OC? It's a tad ridiculous and many here, including myself are tying to change the minds of these stores by not patronizing them and letting them know why. It's pretty silly that I can OC all day long in Walmart, Best Buy and many other places, but if I want to go to a range, I have to cover with my shirt. Is it their right, of course, does it make sense, not really. Nobody is saying we should go down and picket, but why throw money at a store that sells us guns and ammo, but won't let us carry them?

Click to expand...

Maybe it didn't come out right. I don't think anyone attacked me personally.

As far as TFL policies; it doesn't make sense to you, but it obviously make sense to them, and I respect that. If they allowed OC, I would. They don't so I CC. I'm not worked up about their decision about how to run their store.

For me I guess, OC is about the government not infringing on my right to protect myself. Private property owners can do what they want as far as I concerned, but that's just me. My OP was just about seeing if anyone here would want to join me for some shootin'

Some of us are not as zealous as others; there ought to be room for that.

Click to expand...

I'm FatboyCykes and I approve this post I agree 100%.

As to my previous comment about you posting again, it just seemed like it had been awhile since you posted last. There has been a lot of new members lately and I remember when you signed up but haven't seen much from you lately, then again, there has been a lot that I've missed with all the new people and new forums/posts

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a2revolver on MGO)

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

Ahh, never been there was just wondering .. another anti-OC range. I'd like to see the 2A ranges and anti-2A ranges in a list.. I'd refuse to go there just like I refuse to go to Double Action .. even though it's down the street.

Pro 2A Ranges such as Southside Sportsmans Club in Battle Creek.

Click to expand...

OK, hold on a minute folks! The Second Amendment applies to the government infringing on the the right to keep and bear arms, not a private entity. I don't understand why some can't get this. If a business does not want OC on their property, that does not make then anti 2A. Now if you don't like it and don't want to do business with them, that's all fine and good, but that does not make them anti-2A. :banghead:

Click to expand...

Correct. The 2A does apply to the federal government.

Support of it, without qualification, it what determines if an entity is for it or against it.

You can't have it both ways.

Either we stand together. Or we hang alone.

Click to expand...

Yes you can have it both ways, private property and public property are separate. And they are supposed to be!!! Any other way to have it is socialism. Private propert rights are equally important. If TFL has reasons for not wanting OC in THEIR store, so what. They may not want you yelling profanity in there either; does that make them anti-1A?

Click to expand...

a2fireball wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

Ahh, never been there was just wondering .. another anti-OC range. I'd like to see the 2A ranges and anti-2A ranges in a list.. I'd refuse to go there just like I refuse to go to Double Action .. even though it's down the street.

Pro 2A Ranges such as Southside Sportsmans Club in Battle Creek.

Click to expand...

OK, hold on a minute folks! The Second Amendment applies to the government infringing on the the right to keep and bear arms, not a private entity. I don't understand why some can't get this. If a business does not want OC on their property, that does not make then anti 2A. Now if you don't like it and don't want to do business with them, that's all fine and good, but that does not make them anti-2A. :banghead:

Click to expand...

Correct. The 2A does apply to the federal government.

Support of it, without qualification, it what determines if an entity is for it or against it.

You can't have it both ways.

Either we stand together. Or we hang alone.

Click to expand...

Yes you can have it both ways, private property and public property are separate. And they are supposed to be!!! Any other way to have it is socialism. Private propert rights are equally important. If TFL has reasons for not wanting OC in THEIR store, so what. They may not want you yelling profanity in there either; does that make them anti-1A?

Click to expand...

+1000 without private property we'd have no place to keep OUR GUNS, or to be SECURE in our PERSONS, HOMES, and EFFECTS.

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