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Thread: Starbucks Robbed by Armed Gunman

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    http://www.ocregister.com/news/polic...cks-beach.html



    Published: March 10, 2010
    Updated: 4:12 p.m.
    Photo: Police seeking Starbucks robbery suspect

    By JAIMEE LYNN FLETCHER
    THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER


    SEAL BEACH– Police have released video stills of a man suspected of robbing Starbucks in hopes the community will help identify and apprehend him.

    Police responded to reports of an armed robbery about 8:30 p.m. Feb. 17 at Starbucks in the 2300 block of Seal Beach Boulevard.




    Police are looking for the man pictured here who is suspected of robbing a Starbucks in Seal Beach. The man allegedly brandished a gun, forced employees to the ground and emptied the cash register.
    PHOTO COURTESY OF THE SEAL BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT,
    MORE PHOTOS »
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    A man allegedly entered the store, brandished a fire arm and forced several employees on the floor before emptying the cash register, police said.

    There were no customers in the store at the time of the robbery and nobody was injured, police said. An unknown amount of money was taken.

    The man is described as Hispanic, six feet tall, from 37 to 50 years of age and 200 to 250 pounds. He fled the store on foot; no vehicle was seen leaving the coffee shop, police said.

    Police are asking the public to help identify the man. Anyone with any information can call Detective Gary Krogman of the Seal Beach Police Department at 562-799-4100, ext. 1108.

    Contact the writer:[/b] 714-796-7953 or jfletcher@ocregister.com

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Was he OC'ing?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Mech's Avatar
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    Ok, I have a question: if I were in the store at the time, sitting in the corner, and while he came in and went straight for the cash register, I deployed my OC'ing piece, with his back turned towards me. Given that he's already brandishing his firearm, do I have to yell at him first to drop his weapon? Or should I simply shoot to stop the threat he's posing for the employees?

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    Was he OC'ing?
    Actually from the photo it looks like he's concealing. Guess the bradys will want starbucks to ban everyone from their stores now, since you just can't tell if an obviously unarmed person is a criminal or not, it helps them blend in
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Mech wrote:
    Ok, I have a question: if I were in the store at the time, sitting in the corner, and while he came in and went straight for the cash register, I deployed my OC'ing piece, with his back turned towards me. Given that he's already brandishing his firearm, do I have to yell at him first to drop his weapon? Or should I simply shoot to stop the threat he's posing for the employees?
    Armed Robbery is a felony. You have the right to use your firearm to stop a felony in progress.

    Personally, I'd give a warning like shouting "drop it". If the criminal moves in any manner other than dropping the weapon, BANG!.

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    Sirpuma..., I agree.

    If that dude made ONE wrong move..., BANG!

    It does not matter though, because; he is facing Armed Robbery Charges, which in The State of Washington is a Class A Felony.

    Armed Robbery is Codified under Washington Revised Statutes 9A.56.200.

    A Conviction for 9A.56.200 brings a standard 3 year sentence, since it is a Level IX Sentence Serious Level Offense, per Washington Codes 9.94A.500-9.94A.530.

    Technically, He could be facing up to 12 years in Prison, and a Class A Felony Conviciton that will never come off of His Criminal History.

    Furthermore, there are plenty of enhancers under Washington Code if He has engaged in any similiar conduct at any time prior to this Crime, if He is Convicted.



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    I'm not going to make a recommendation one way or the other, but just an observation:

    Personally, I'd give a warning like shouting "drop it". If the criminal moves in any manner other than dropping the weapon,
    Now you've moved from acting to reacting, and that's always slower.

    Just sayin'....

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    sirpuma wrote:
    Mech wrote:
    Ok, I have a question: if I were in the store at the time, sitting in the corner, and while he came in and went straight for the cash register, I deployed my OC'ing piece, with his back turned towards me. Given that he's already brandishing his firearm, do I have to yell at him first to drop his weapon? Or should I simply shoot to stop the threat he's posing for the employees?
    Armed Robbery is a felony. You have the right to use your firearm to stop a felony in progress.

    Personally, I'd give a warning like shouting "drop it". If the criminal moves in any manner other than dropping the weapon, BANG!.
    No words spoken. Just aim and pull the trigger. Remember the Tacoma Mall shooting the guy with the CPL made that mistake and now he is in a wheel chair.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Metalhead47 wrote:
    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    Was he OC'ing?
    Actually from the photo it looks like he's concealing. Guess the bradys will want starbucks to ban everyone from their stores now, since you just can't tell if an obviously unarmed person is a criminal or not, it helps them blend in
    Are you proposing that we all must be requried to enter Starbucks nude?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    Metalhead47 wrote:
    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    Was he OC'ing?
    Actually from the photo it looks like he's concealing. Guess the bradys will want starbucks to ban everyone from their stores now, since you just can't tell if an obviously unarmed person is a criminal or not, it helps them blend in
    Are you proposing that we all must be requried to enter Starbucks nude?
    Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!:what:

    Don't say that out loud! We know the bradys lurk this forum, don't give them any ideas!
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    I'm afraid that some of us would be better received nude than would others. :celebrate

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    I'll bet the robber had both an unregistered handgun (required in Kalifornia) and lacked a concealed carry permit (also required in Kalifornia). Boy, he's really in trouble now!

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    I knew it was a matter of time this would happen with enough media coverage going on. The Brady wars. Begun it has. :?

    I propose we burn this event into memory on our fateful Pi day and stay armed like great grandfatherintended.

    EDIT: I just realized so much crap went on March 10th that it isn't funny. Anyway this is the kind of situation that makes me wait for armed guards to enter the shop. These days when some large business gets media coverage they're more likely to be robbed by some nutcase. They always come out after the press gets there.

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    The arm waving about Starbucks began in the Bay Area around March 5, this year. The event in question occurred February 17. The article quoted and linked in the OP was dated March 10. It appears to me that that the robbery flew under the radar until somebody in the Bay Area made the connection as a result of then current events. To connect robberies of Starbucks shops to the open carry issue would require before and after statistics of armed robberies, showing a statistically significant increase in armed robberies after March 5 to 10.

    MD

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    OH CRAP! Was that in CALIFORNIA?! I thought this wasn't supposed to happen anymore!

    -_-
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    No words spoken. Just aim and pull the trigger. Remember the Tacoma Mall shooting the guy with the CPL made that mistake and now he is in a wheel chair.
    That is the first thing that went through my mind.

    He was a guy new to carrying and thought the perp (with a freaking rifle!) would back down if he drew his pistol. I am not sure he even pointed the pistol at the perp.

    Bad guy's response was to swivel at waist and put two 7.62 x 39 bullets in his gut and one in his spine.

    Remember Kids: When you see a guy shooting innocents in public, DON'T try to take him at gun point.



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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Ok first off it was Kalifoneeya, so if you were carrying, than he probably would have your gun cause he would have saw it, and pointed his loaded weapon at you before you could unholster you weapon and unholster your clip and get it loaded.

    Second, I dont think anyone wants to see me nude in a starbucks, I'm surprised I dont get indecent exposure fully dressed. 15 yrs ago, yea maybe, now, not an option.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    kparker wrote:
    I'm not going to make a recommendation one way or the other, but just an observation:

    Personally, I'd give a warning like shouting "drop it". If the criminal moves in any manner other than dropping the weapon,
    Now you've moved from acting to reacting, and that's always slower.

    Just sayin'....
    Actually....

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    phone guy wrote:
    sirpuma wrote:
    Mech wrote:
    Ok, I have a question: if I were in the store at the time, sitting in the corner, and while he came in and went straight for the cash register, I deployed my OC'ing piece, with his back turned towards me. Given that he's already brandishing his firearm, do I have to yell at him first to drop his weapon? Or should I simply shoot to stop the threat he's posing for the employees?
    Armed Robbery is a felony. You have the right to use your firearm to stop a felony in progress.

    Personally, I'd give a warning like shouting "drop it". If the criminal moves in any manner other than dropping the weapon, BANG!.
    No words spoken. Just aim and pull the trigger. Remember the Tacoma Mall shooting the guy with the CPL made that mistake and now he is in a wheel chair.
    That was slightly different, the Tacoma Mall guy was already shooting people. In that case, it's just a BANG!. In the robbery case, they usually aren't ready for someone to resist. Shouting for them to freeze or drop it from behind them means they have to turn around to see who's shouting at them. That's when the bang comes in. If you have the drop on them from behind as they're threatening the cashier and you order them to freeze or drop the weapon it will take them a second or two to turn and find a target. Once they start that turn, shoot them. Of course if they come in waving it around and threatening everyone, then once their back is turned, draw and shoot.

    ETA, I'm not saying wait till after you give the order to draw. I'm saying, draw, take careful aim, give order. Perp flinches wrong, it's only a trigger pull.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    In Washington State you are not required to announce your actions to a perp, if you feel you or the life of another is in immediate threat of life you are well with in our rights to eliminate threat.
    If you feel it will no one will be harmed it is still your choice to act or not to, as you will live with the end result in the aftermath.
    If you feel it an obligation to take out the perp and you feel it is raised to the level of a deadly threat then do so while keeping in mind if your rounds miss where they will hit.

    Note on the Tacoma Mall Shooting, I read after the incident McKown actually drew his weapon and feeling he could not be sure of hitting someone else if he missed, he put away his gun and asked the shooter Maldonado to put his gun and Maldonado shot him 5 times at close range.
    There is different reports as to he pulled his gun and then put it away to he was a faster draw then me and being shot twice versus five times.

    This is a testament if you are going to carry be prepared, if you are going to pull your gun and expose yourself be ready to take those shots, putting it away is beyond me still when so many lives to include your own were at stake.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
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    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    That is exactly why open carry is such a strong declaration to me. It says if you're going to carry it on you, you might have proficiencybut definitely haveconfidence in using it. To admit you havea willto takeaction is taken for granted. Accuracy is assumed.

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    aadvark wrote:
    Sirpuma..., I agree.

    If that dude made ONE wrong move..., BANG!

    It does not matter though, because; he is facing Armed Robbery Charges, which in The State of Washington is a Class A Felony.

    Armed Robbery is Codified under Washington Revised Statutes 9A.56.200.

    A Conviction for 9A.56.200 brings a standard 3 year sentence, since it is a Level IX Sentence Serious Level Offense, per Washington Codes 9.94A.500-9.94A.530.

    Technically, He could be facing up to 12 years in Prison, and a Class A Felony Conviciton that will never come off of His Criminal History.

    Furthermore, there are plenty of enhancers under Washington Code if He has engaged in any similiar conduct at any time prior to this Crime, if He is Convicted.

    Technically its Robbery in the First Degree. We don't call it Armed Robbery. Also, it can be committed while unarmed by inflicting bodily injury or by robbing a bank (interesting change in the law brought on because the feds weren't doing bank robbery cases if the perp wasn't armed).
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    I think Big Dave about says it. It's your call, your risk, your liability.No law says you have to act. I personally don't think starting a gun battle in any establishment would be a wise choice. The Gunman Brandished, forced them to the ground and went on to empty the register. Here it sounds he was after cash, not blood. Gunman already has the upper hand, and most likely you’ve been forced to the ground as well long before you get a chance to whip out that model 29. Be at the ready by all means if you can in case it turns bad, or pay attention to description and direction of travel. I swear to protect my family and self, not the cash register of any overpriced establishment.
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    Mech wrote:
    Ok, I have a question: if I were in the store at the time, sitting in the corner, and while he came in and went straight for the cash register, I deployed my OC'ing piece, with his back turned towards me. Given that he's already brandishing his firearm, do I have to yell at him first to drop his weapon? Or should I simply shoot to stop the threat he's posing for the employees?
    Do you think Starbucks is gonna pay your attorney fees when you have to explain your actions in court or when you get sued by the deceased's children or relatives?
    I wonder about youse folks who need to go around looking for someone to shoot. Is it really worth all the trouble over $50 from the cash register? I know, you might be legally "right", but there's always the ambulance-chaser who is gonna try to cash in and claim you're some trigger happy gun-nut looking for a confrontation. To me, it just isn't worth the hassle unless someones life is in imminent danger. Sure, you might prevail in civil court over a "lottery lawsuit", but you still have to cost of defending your actions.

    This is one reason why convenient stores (and banks)require their employees to just hand over the cash rather than fight back. Defense of money just aint worth it. Your piece is for defense of LIFE.

    I remember an incident in Houston when I was there. A repo man was repoing the wrong car in the middle of the night and the homeowner, hearing all the noise, came out and shot him. In Texas, this is legal. After the investigation, it was decided the homeowner, who thought his car was being stolen, was justified. No charges were filed. But after the repo man's wife finished her lawsuit the shooter had to sell his house and cars and was basically made indigent in order to pay her civil judgement.

    And he was totally justified in the shoot.





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    Anthony_I_Am wrote:
    Do you think Starbucks is gonna pay your attorney fees when you have to explain your actions in court or when you get sued by the deceased's children or relatives?
    I wonder about youse folks who need to go around looking for someone to shoot. Is it really worth all the trouble over $50 from the cash register? I know, you might be legally "right",
    Problem that I see is that if a guy has a gun out, you have no idea whether he is going to shoot someone until after he does. He may seem like he is just robbing the register, but what if his plan is to take the cash and then eliminate the witnesses. We've seen it happen. If he is holding a gun and committing a crime, you are taking a huge risk that he is just going to walk away rather than shoot you for seeing him. At that point I am not acting to protect their profits, I am stopping an armed criminal of unknown intent who is putting me and mine in danger by his presence.

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