Starbucks Robbed by Armed Gunman

imported post

I never claimed to "know more than anybody" just because I am a combat vet. I was simply stating the way I would have responded to the OP's scenario. I'm sure that we can all agree that not everybody would react the same. If you want to shoot first and ask questions later, so be it. I've been blown up once and shot twice. It would take more than a man walking into a business with a gun not pointed at me to make me feel that my life was in danger.

My logic is that I'm a disabled vet, on disability, basically making ends meet. I would have to have a sorry-ass public defender to defend my actions, a lawyer who gets paid the same whether I go to jail or not, and who really doesn't give a shit, who gets to play golf longer if he can get my case outta the way quicker. To me, that isn't worth interjecting myself into a situation that basically, ain't none of my business until the gun is pointed at me.

You do it your way and I'll do it mine.

imported post

I whole heartily agree there are better things to discuss but I am tired some hating on vets and will stand up against it period.

imported post

Anthony_I_Am wrote:

I never claimed to "know more than anybody" just because I am a combat vet.  I was simply stating the way I would have responded to the OP's scenario.  I'm sure that we can all agree that not everybody would react the same.  If you want to shoot first and ask questions later, so be it.  I've been blown up once and shot twice.  It would take more than a man walking into a business with a gun not pointed at me to make me feel that my life was in danger. 

My logic is that I'm a disabled vet, on disability, basically making ends meet.  I would have to have a sorry-ass public defender to defend my actions, a lawyer who gets paid the same whether I go to jail or not, and who really doesn't give a @#$%, who gets to play golf longer if he can get my case outta the way quicker.  To me, that isn't worth interjecting myself into a situation that basically, ain't none of my business until the gun is pointed at me.

You do it your way and I'll do it mine.

 

Click to expand...

My response is to fix the issue that barely makes your ends meet. What in the hell kind of society has been created where the same folks that defended our country come home and defend no one because they can't afford to? I am so sick of our gov't giving everything to those that do not want to help themselves and then turning around and sh1tting on those who have helped everyone else.

imported post

Anthony_I_Am wrote:

I never claimed to "know more than anybody" just because I am a combat vet. I was simply stating the way I would have responded to the OP's scenario. I'm sure that we can all agree that not everybody would react the same. If you want to shoot first and ask questions later, so be it. I've been blown up once and shot twice. It would take more than a man walking into a business with a gun not pointed at me to make me feel that my life was in danger.

My logic is that I'm a disabled vet, on disability, basically making ends meet. I would have to have a sorry-ass public defender to defend my actions, a lawyer who gets paid the same whether I go to jail or not, and who really doesn't give a @#$%, who gets to play golf longer if he can get my case outta the way quicker. To me, that isn't worth interjecting myself into a situation that basically, ain't none of my business until the gun is pointed at me.

You do it your way and I'll do it mine.

Click to expand...

You have it right for you and that is what we call could hope for is to have many of these questions answered before being faced with it.

And may I be the first on the board to thank you for your service and what you have given up to make life better for us and others.

From one vet to another THANK YOU! for what you have done.

imported post

Anthony,

Perhaps it would be better if you posted in North Carolina forum.

We have different laws here in Washington State than in North Carolina and perhaps different attitudes that lead to conflict and misunderstandings. I am a vet as well, though I served as a Navy medic. (BigDave, don't thank me for my service, ok?)

I should note that you mentioned a tour in Iraq. Wouldn't a tour involving combat make you faster at both assessing a potential threat and a higher level of skill in dealing with it? Would not a combat soldier have a higher level of responsibility due to his Oath and training? If the robber kills the Barista because she is not handing over the money quickly enough, wouldn't you feel more responsible? Perhaps not.

And BigDave, the only one "misquoting" here is Anthony. I never said that we should be shooting "anyone we think might or could be a crook" nor did I bring in a Strawman argument about third world countries. Nor do I whine about how much money I have or kind of lawyer I can afford or what disability I have when speaking about a defense situation.

Yeah, your right. we should all go around shooting anyone we think might or could be a crook. They shoot thieves in other third world countries. Why shouldn't we be able to also?

Click to expand...

imported post

Wheelgunner wrote:

Anthony,

Perhaps it would be better if you posted in North Carolina forum.

We have different laws here in Washington State than in North Carolina and perhaps different attitudes that lead to conflict and misunderstandings. I am a vet as well, though I served as a Navy medic.

I should note that you mentioned a tour in Iraq. Wouldn't a tour involving combat make you faster at both assessing a potential threat and a higher level of skill in dealing with it? Would not a combat soldier have a higher level of responsibility due to his Oath and training? If the robber kills the Barista because she is not handing over the money quickly enough, wouldn't you feel more responsible? Perhaps not.

And BigDave, the only one "misquoting" here is Anthony. I never said that we should be shooting "anyone we think might or could be a crook" nor did I bring in a Strawman argument about third world countries.

Yeah, your right. we should all go around shooting anyone we think might or could be a crook. They shoot thieves in other third world countries. Why shouldn't we be able to also?

Click to expand...

Just saying.

Click to expand...

I never said you did and the misquoting was for another and he knows who he is, it was not directed at you.

I feel Anthony's post was fine taken in context.

imported post

Wheelgunner wrote:

I never said that we should be shooting "anyone we think might or could be a crook" nor did I bring in a Strawman argument about third world countries.

Yeah, your right. we should all go around shooting anyone we think might or could be a crook. They shoot thieves in other third world countries. Why shouldn't we be able to also?

Click to expand...

Just saying.

Click to expand...

Sorry. It was sarcasm without thinking about it.

imported post

I'm not saying that I wouldn't defend a third party. I'm not going to stand by while someone is raped or beat or shot. I just have to be 100% sure that I am 100% correct in my assesment of the situation. I can't afford the repercussion of capping some guy walking into starbucks and pulling out his cutsy little cigarette lighter pistol to show his girlfriend working behind the counter that he bought at the trinket shop and thinks is "cool".

On the other hand, if they walk in with ski masks, waving guns and screaming "get on the floor" then it's different, in my opinion.

Wouldn't a tour involving combat make you faster at both assessing a potential threat

Click to expand...

Define "potential threat". I've had bullets kicking up sand in my face and mortars going off in front of me. Some things just aren't as scary to me now. I wouln't even shoot a mugger unless he fired at me first. Not that I wouldn't be legally justified, but it just ain't skeery to me to have a loaded gun pointed in my face anymore. I figure if the Lord wanted me dead, I'd been dead years ago.

imported post

Anthony_I_Am wrote:

I'm not saying that I wouldn't defend a third party. I'm not going to stand by while someone is raped or beat or shot. I just have to be 100% sure that I am 100% correct in my assesment of the situation. I can't afford the repercussion of capping some guy walking into starbucks and pulling out his cutsy little cigarette lighter pistol to show his girlfriend working behind the counter that he bought at the trinket shop and thinks is "cool".

On the other hand, if they walk in with ski masks, waving guns and screaming "get on the floor" then it's different, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Again, a Strawman argument. No one said anyone can, Quote:

"afford the repercussion of capping some guy walking into starbucks and pulling out his cutsy little cigarette lighter pistol to show his girlfriend working behind the counter that he bought at the trinket shop and thinks is "cool".

Click to expand...

No one can afford that "repercussion", no matter what your income. Of course that was not the tactical situation we were discussing.

imported post

Anthony_I_Am wrote:

Define "potential threat". I've had bullets kicking up sand in my face and mortars going off in front of me. Some things just aren't as scary to me now. I wouln't even shoot a mugger unless he fired at me first. Not that I wouldn't be legally justified, but it just ain't skeery to me to have a loaded gun pointed in my face anymore. I figure if the Lord wanted me dead, I'd been dead years ago.

Click to expand...

Dude, you wait for the other guy to shoot first, you may not have the ability to react. We're not talking terrorists with AK's from 50+ yards here. Muggings & counter robberies tend to be pretty close encounters. To bring it back to the original post, I believe the guy walked in, pointed a gun at the barista, & demanded money. Now in that situation, do you honestly not believe her life was in imminent danger, thereby justifying a lethal response on your part, had you been present? How many folks out there are dead now even though they did exactly what the robber wanted, only to be shot anyway? You should be aware better than most, that not everyone out there is doing the Lord's bidding.

imported post

Anthony_I_Am wrote:

I figure if the Lord wanted me dead, I'd been dead years ago.

Click to expand...

If god actually existed, you wouldn't have had to go over there to get shot at in the first place. Theodicy remains unanswered except to the most easily swayed.

In a close encounter with an armed party, waiting for them to shoot is suicide.

imported post

Tawnos wrote:

Anthony_I_Am wrote:

I figure if the Lord wanted me dead, I'd been dead years ago.

Click to expand...

If god actually existed, you wouldn't have had to go over there to get shot at in the first place. Theodicy remains unanswered except to the most easily swayed.

In a close encounter with an armed party, waiting for them to shoot is suicide.

Click to expand...

This thread was just getting back on topic, let's not turn it into a religious debate, shall we?:uhoh:

imported post

aadvark wrote:

Sirpuma..., I agree.

If that dude made ONE wrong move..., BANG!

It does not matter though, because; he is facing Armed Robbery Charges, which in The State of Washington is a Class A Felony.

Armed Robbery is Codified under Washington Revised Statutes 9A.56.200.

A Conviction for 9A.56.200 brings a standard 3 year sentence, since it is a Level IX Sentence Serious Level Offense, per Washington Codes 9.94A.500-9.94A.530.

Technically, He could be facing up to 12 years in Prison, and a Class A Felony Conviciton that will never come off of His Criminal History.

Furthermore, there are plenty of enhancers under Washington Code if He has engaged in any similiar conduct at any time prior to this Crime, if He is Convicted.

Click to expand...

Not to be an AZZ or anything ....

Why are you quoting Washington State Law when this happen down in CA.

??????????????????????

imported post

More coffee shops robbed in Kalifornia: Note both Peet's and Starbucks. Especially note the quote in the last paragraph from the Peet's representative.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Suspect-arrested-in-string-of-coffee-shop-robberies-87740847.html







SAN FRANCISCO — A man accused of robbing as many as seven coffee shops at gunpoint — including some Peet’s and Starbucks stores — was arrested after the quick thinking of a downtown barista.

A man wearing sunglasses and a hoodie entered the Peet’s on Third and Mission streets Sunday afternoon and pointed a gun wrapped in plastic at the chest of an employee while demanding cash, police said.

After handing the gunman some cash, the barista ran after him and noted the license plate number of his getaway car.

Within hours of informing the police of the robbery, and providing the license plate number and a detailed description of the gun-wielding robber to San Francisco police officers, Jacob Schildgen was arrested at a nearby residential hotel.

"If the employee didn’t do that, we probably wouldn’t have caught anyone," said San Francisco Police Officer Craig Dong, who thanked the employee with two other officers at Peet’s on Monday.

The employee, who asked to remain anonymous, said he positively identified Schildgen during a lineup Monday. The employee said it was the second time he has been robbed at gunpoint.

Police said Schildgen, 42, is suspected in two other robberies at the Third and Mission Peet’s — on March 8 and Feb. 22.

Starbucks coffee shops were victims of two other carbon-copy crimes within the past week, according to a prepared statement, but the company did not give any further details.

Police say Schildgen is a suspect in three other robberies — including two on March 12 that occurred within a half-hour of each other — and an attempted robbery. He is also being eyed as the suspect in a March 11 holdup of a coffee shop on Divisadero Street.

In each robbery, police say employees were threatened with use of a gun.

Peet’s Coffee responded with a prepared statement.

"Nothing is more important to Peet’s Coffee & Tea than the safety and security of our customers and our own employees in our stores," the statement said. "We have clear protocols that are designed to keep everyone as safe and comfortable as possible in a wide range of situations. We are cooperating with the San Francisco Police Department in their investigation."

kkelkar@sfexaminer.com

imported post

Hmm... More proof that gun free zones are a lie.

imported post

I believe the guy walked in, pointed a gun at the barista, & demanded money.

Click to expand...

My apologies. I obviously didn't catch the demanded money part.

In a close encounter with an armed party, waiting for them to shoot is suicide.

Click to expand...

Really? I was shot from2 feet away, in the face, with a 22 magbelt buckle pistol. Bullet entered my right nose fold, the copper jacket fragemented thru the brain, and the slug is still in my 3rd vertebrate. They said leave it there because fooling with it might paralize me. IGuess there's an exception to every rule.

You'd be suprised the incidents where cops get in a shootout with the BG at a 3 foot distance, both parties empty their gun, and nobody gets hit. Panic and adrenaline will do that to you. Don't think it is going to be like at the range where you get a good stance, breathe calmy and take a good aim and pull the trigger carefully. Just don't happen that way in real life.

imported post

Sorry for the confusion. I was relying soley on this scenario:

Ok, I have a question: if I were in the store at the time, sitting in the corner, and while he came in and went straight for the cash register, I deployed my OC'ing piece, with his back turned towards me. Given that he's already brandishing his firearm, do I have to yell at him first to drop his weapon? Or should I simply shoot to stop the threat he's posing for the employees?

Click to expand...

not the original post where the BG was forcing everyone to the ground and stuff.

imported post

heresolong wrote:

Anthony_I_Am wrote:

Do you think Starbucks is gonna pay your attorney fees when you have to explain your actions in court or when you get sued by the deceased's children or relatives?
I wonder about youse folks who need to go around looking for someone to shoot. Is it really worth all the trouble over $50 from the cash register? I know, you might be legally "right",

Click to expand...

Problem that I see is that if a guy has a gun out, you have no idea whether he is going to shoot someone until after he does. He may seem like he is just robbing the register, but what if his plan is to take the cash and then eliminate the witnesses. We've seen it happen. If he is holding a gun and committing a crime, you are taking a huge risk that he is just going to walk away rather than shoot you for seeing him. At that point I am not acting to protect their profits, I am stopping an armed criminal of unknown intent who is putting me and mine in danger by his presence.

Click to expand...

Bingo!!!! I totally agree. If he then pulled the trigger and killed someone when I could have stopped it I would feel very badly afterword.

imported post

sudden valley gunner wrote:

heresolong wrote:

Anthony_I_Am wrote:

Do you think Starbucks is gonna pay your attorney fees when you have to explain your actions in court or when you get sued by the deceased's children or relatives?
I wonder about youse folks who need to go around looking for someone to shoot. Is it really worth all the trouble over $50 from the cash register? I know, you might be legally "right",

Click to expand...

Problem that I see is that if a guy has a gun out, you have no idea whether he is going to shoot someone until after he does. He may seem like he is just robbing the register, but what if his plan is to take the cash and then eliminate the witnesses. We've seen it happen. If he is holding a gun and committing a crime, you are taking a huge risk that he is just going to walk away rather than shoot you for seeing him. At that point I am not acting to protect their profits, I am stopping an armed criminal of unknown intent who is putting me and mine in danger by his presence.

Click to expand...

Bingo!!!! I totally agree. If he then pulled the trigger and killed someone when I could have stopped it I would feel very badly afterword.

Click to expand...

I personally would hate to be caught in a situation like that in Cali. The reason being, you have to be unloaded to OC in Cali. You would have to be quick and quite to be able to snap a mag in and rack one. Hoping not to be seen doing this while in a small coffee shop.