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Thread: DISAPPOINTED IN MOC!!!

  1. #1
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    After 2 poorly attended events I am very disappointed. I asked myself was it how or where I organized the events. I don't believe so. I believe its more based on the leadership of our group. For both events only one board member showed up, the President of MOC, at the Detroit parade. Then he wasn't even OCing until others arrived. He was also at the Fox News interview not carrying a firearm!!! Shouldn't our President lead by example if we expect others to follow? What example did this set? How many people missed a chance to see someone OC and to be educated by the one person who should be OCing at every possible moment. Our VP was unavailable due to prior obligations but has been seen in public not OCing anyways in a business that supports the right to carry. Our treasurer did not show due to doing homework. I guess 3 hours out of the day is to much to dedicate to a group you were elected to lead. Once again though at all the events I've been to, and other events that members have brought to my attention, has not been seen OCing. The secretary I am unsure of where he was, but understand distance may have been a factor. How can our leadership lead without setting the right examples our membership deserves?

    So am I disappointed, damn straight I am.

  2. #2
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    Slow down. Take a deep breath.

    You did an exemplary job in both the Macomb Daily interview and at Starbucks.

    The new officers of MOC have only been at it a very short time. They also took over at a time when the organization was in a state of turmoil due to resignations in the midst of controversy.

    Keep doing what you are doing. Your example is stellar.

  3. #3
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Slow down. Take a deep breath.

    You did an exemplary job in both the Macomb Daily interview and at Starbucks.

    The new officers of MOC have only been at it a very short time. They also took over at a time when the organization was in a state of turmoil due to resignations in the midst of controversy.

    Keep doing what you are doing. Your example is stellar.
    Pat, please show us which "resignations in the midst of controversy." occurred. It's a fact that the resignations of board members had nothing to do with the so called non-event "controversy" you're referring to.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    What happened at the Detroit event I cannot comment on, because I wasn't there for reasons I've already explained. Nor do I feel it's my place to comment on the leadership of MOC and your particular complaints. However, I do feel it's appropriate for me to comment on participation by non MOC officials in general at all types of events.

    I've been saying for years that we are a group of volunteers. No one here is either required to or prohibited from doing as they please, so long as it is kept legal and safe. Different people have different priorities, and different people have different thresholds for things where right or wrong, they may perceive that an event is particularly a risk of legal trouble. And of course work and laziness can be serious road blocks too.

    Michigan is currently one of the busiest OC communities in the USA. This is a huge accomplishment that many here have worked very hard to achieve. All things kept in perspective, we are doing extremely well right now. However, striving for continuous quality improvement is the only good way to move forward, and frankly sprinklerguy, I think you are among the best leaders here for pushing everyone forward, and hard.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  5. #5
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Personaly I will not get in the middle of anything. Period, I dobt I will even check this thread again, just because I don't wanna deal with the politics. All I can suggest is if you have a problem with someone, or multiple people, than you need to bring it up with them, not with OCDO. Just my $0.02.

    God Bless
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  6. #6
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Some events are better then others..... don't let it get you down.

    I think this summer is going to be great.

  7. #7
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    mikestilly wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Slow down. Take a deep breath.

    You did an exemplary job in both the Macomb Daily interview and at Starbucks.

    The new officers of MOC have only been at it a very short time. They also took over at a time when the organization was in a state of turmoil due to resignations in the midst of controversy.

    Keep doing what you are doing. Your example is stellar.
    Pat, please show us which "resignations in the midst of controversy." occurred. It's a fact that the resignations of board members had nothing to do with the so called non-event "controversy" you're referring to.
    In the midst of the controversy. Not as a result of it.



  8. #8
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    This is the only post I will make on this thread.
    Remember there are two sides two every story. This matter will be dealt with internally with the staff of MOC, Inc. as it should have been handled from the start.
    I have no further comment on this issue.

  9. #9
    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    Wow I think this should have been a PM. We all are volunteers, we do what we can!

    That's all I got say bout that

  10. #10
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Slow down. Take a deep breath.

    You did an exemplary job in both the Macomb Daily interview and at Starbucks.

    The new officers of MOC have only been at it a very short time. They also took over at a time when the organization was in a state of turmoil due to resignations in the midst of controversy.

    Keep doing what you are doing. Your example is stellar.
    +1 ......I TOO Support this Statement ! Great Job Both .

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    To be honest I feel there were several reasons for turnout.

    1.) No headcount on the thread - First sign turnout is slim to none

    2.) Location - Do we have any members on the side of town? Most of our population is middle of the state to the Oakland/Macomb county borders.

    3.) Saint Clair Parade - Smaller parade, small interest, could be a factor. People arent really interested in parades maybe.

    4.) Was there a meet at Starbucks? I didnt even see that one posted.

    5.) Bad weather - It hard to enjoy yourself sitting in the freezing cold in the rain watching a parade.

  12. #12
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    mikestilly wrote:
    To be honest I feel there were several reasons for turnout.

    1.) No headcount on the thread - First sign turnout is slim to none

    2.) Location - Do we have any members on the side of town? Most of our population is middle of the state to the Oakland/Macomb county borders.

    3.) Saint Clair Parade - Smaller parade, small interest, could be a factor

    4.) Was there a meet at Starbucks? I didnt even see that one posted.

    5.) Bad weather - It hard to enjoy yourself sitting in the freezing cold in the rain watching a parade.
    +1.... I TOO support this statement .

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 12:54 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Eh, with all do respect, pretty tactless as a acting director to call out those in leadership, unless you tried in private and got nowhere, but that's just me.

    I have a lot of respect for these people the work they've done for much longer than you've been around. The simple fact that most of us are able to OC as hassle free as we're able to do has much to do with that hard work.

    I'm not saying that you don't have a legitimate issue, but I think it could be handled much better than this, it's kind of disappointing that you felt the need to air out in the public like this, this is the last thing we need right now, more controversy over what ends up being nothing. First KG, now this, all have proven themselves worthy of more respect than was shown in the OP, again, my opinion.

    I will also let this be my last post in this section as I don't think it deserves much of a public response. Elections aren't that far off, if you want to change things, feel free to put up.

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    dougwg wrote:
    Some events are better then others..... don't let it get you down.

    I think this summer is going to be great.
    +99999999 Lets keep it positive guys ...

  16. #16
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    My concerns are not of attendance only. I have no personal grudge with any of the board members of MOC. They are all great people. My point is MOC is a group of paid members who elect their leaders. I felt it was important for all of them to know what many have brought to my attention and what I have witnessed. If we are to be an "Open Carry" group, should not our leaders open carry? Our recent press coverage has demanded of us a higher sense of responsibility to our cause. How can we say a right unexercised is a right lost if we don't exercise ourselves regardless if we are being watched, in a group, or by ourselves?

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 12:54 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Eh, with all do respect, pretty tactless as a acting director to call out those in leadership, unless you tried in private and got nowhere, but that's just me.

    I have a lot of respect for these people the work they've done for much longer than you've been around.* The simple fact that most of us are able to OC as hassle free as we're able to do has much to do with that hard work.

    I'm not saying that you don't have a legitimate issue, but I think it could be handled much better than this, it's kind of disappointing that you felt the need to air out in the public like this, this is the last thing we need right now, more controversy over what ends up being nothing.* First KG, now this, all have proven themselves worthy of more respect than was shown in the OP, again, my opinion.

    I will also let this be my last post in this section as I don't think it deserves much of a public response.* Elections aren't that far off, if you want to change things, feel free to put up.
    I've been open carrying for 13 years. Those that know me know that at 18 I started fighting for all 2A rights. I do not discount the work that anyone has done and I applaud it. However as paying members of a group our leaders need to embrace our goals and lead us by example. Our members have paid for a membership expecting this and need to know if they are getting what they pay for. I would not pay to the NRA if their leaders didn't own guns. If the leadership of MOC disagrees with me then I am in an appointed position which can be revoked at anytime.

  19. #19
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Poor planning and misunderstandings happen.Perfection is not possible.Not to worry.I'm sure we'll continue to grow.We'll just get back up,dust ourselves off and do it all over again.Fear not and God Bless!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  20. #20
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    sprinklerguy28 wrote:
    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Eh, with all do respect, pretty tactless as a acting director to call out those in leadership, unless you tried in private and got nowhere, but that's just me.

    I have a lot of respect for these people the work they've done for much longer than you've been around.* The simple fact that most of us are able to OC as hassle free as we're able to do has much to do with that hard work.

    I'm not saying that you don't have a legitimate issue, but I think it could be handled much better than this, it's kind of disappointing that you felt the need to air out in the public like this, this is the last thing we need right now, more controversy over what ends up being nothing.* First KG, now this, all have proven themselves worthy of more respect than was shown in the OP, again, my opinion.

    I will also let this be my last post in this section as I don't think it deserves much of a public response.* Elections aren't that far off, if you want to change things, feel free to put up.
    I've been open carrying for 13 years. Those that know me know that at 18 I started fighting for all 2A rights. I do not discount the work that anyone has done and I applaud it. However as paying members of a group our leaders need to embrace our goals and lead us by example. Our members have paid for a membership expecting this and need to know if they are getting what they pay for. I would not pay to the NRA if their leaders didn't own guns. If the leadership of MOC disagrees with me then I am in an appointed position which can be revoked at anytime.
    Cykes, I can understand your point of keeping things private, but on the other hand this forum is the only way to communicate to the entire membership of MOC. Certain issues are important enough for all paying members to know about. The fact anyone else who logs on to ocdo can see this is regrettable, but none the less a necessary evil. All paying members of MOC have a right to know what our leadership is doing on our behalf, or failing to do. Sprinkleguy28 is one of the most genuine supporters of OC I know. He works everyday to uphold all of 2A rights. His intentions are not to harm MOC but to make it stronger. Shouldn't our elected board members be our BIGGEST advocates, supporters and PRACTITIONERS of OC? That is the key issue at hand. One I agree with.

  21. #21
    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    Disagree 100% with you scot Professional courtesy would have been nice! Not mandatory, but professional.

  22. #22
    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    sprinklerguy28 wrote:
    My point is MOC is a group of paid members who elect their leaders.
    Did you mistype something here?
    Should have been Paying Members

  23. #23
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The only thing I will say is this. We have had events in the past that were poorly attended and we will in the future.

    Expecting the leadership to be at every event is also a stretch. Exspecting them to OC 100% of the time is also unrealistic. Just BC the believe in the cause does not mean they OC all of the time or at all.

    I think this thread needs to die as it is not productive nor beneficial in any way.


    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  24. #24
    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    I agree this thread needs to die. I guess I'm sort of defeating the purpose; but since ethics have been brought into question here, here I go. I will also make it known that I asked for the original post to be deleted before there was a single comment, but apparantly some folks do not respect their leadership.

    I have said before, in this very forum and before the vast majority were even here, MY LIFE IS AN OPEN BOOK. While I am confident most will see through the contents of this thread, I also would like to invite anyone with any questions whatsoever to contact me via email at jsayers@miopencarry.org


    United we STAND!

  25. #25
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    I don't think the thread should die. Paying members on here want to know what's going on.

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