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Thread: On What grounds can we draw and on what grounds can we open fire

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    I understand most other things about owning and carrying a gun around, what I dont understand is on what grounds can we draw and/or fire, with you as the target, and you as a bystander.

    thank you

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    That's the $64,000 question...

    I'd suggest reading the relevant RCW's, reading some related case files and court opinions, then you should have a pretty good idea. While there are a few "black and white" answers, there are very few "black and white" situations. The world is filled with gray and everything you do will be dissected and analyzed in the bright light of day. A split-second decision you made will be gone over for hours and hours.

    Anytime you resort to deadly force, you put yourself in legal jeopardy. Even if you do everything "right" as you may still be charged and/or sued. Even if you win, you will have spent a lot of money to defend yourself.

    It is not to be taken lightly.

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    Regular Member BigIrish's Avatar
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    The way I understand it, it is a tricky thing! you can draw if you or another person is in serious body injury or death, or if the person is in the ACT of a felony. That said I also beleve that any ordanary person would feel the same. ( if I we're there would I react the same way, or if I felt my or anothers around me is in danger for they're life )

    On my interpritation and understanding.......read the RCW'S carefuly
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    kchau wrote:
    I understand most other things about owning and carrying a gun around, what I dont understand is on what grounds can we draw and/or fire, with you as the target, and you as a bystander.

    thank you
    "I know it when I see it," to steal a quote from Justice Potter Stewart
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    Also look into U.S. Court of Appeals, 9th Circuit. This is not good for anyone (law enforcement included) that shoots and injures another person.... get a good lawyer.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I have also asked this very question when I first got on here. I wish there were some definite answers.As said though, every case is different. I always wondered, since I am short and not as agile as I used to be and have been sober for years now I also have found what pain is, I dont like it. I would like to think that I could draw to deter someone from beating me to a pulp, but it seems like there is an amount of blood loss that must occure first. just how close to death you must be, before drawing a weapon is anybodies guess. I also think I read that weapons must be equal in deadly force before you can draw. I know I have also read that if someone has beaten, stabbed and robbed you that you can not shoot them if they are running away from you.
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    there are lots of threads in TRUE TALES OF SELF DEFENSE . go to the main page to find that forum


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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    kchau wrote:
    I understand most other things about owning and carrying a gun around, what I dont understand is on what grounds can we draw and/or fire, with you as the target, and you as a bystander.

    thank you
    What a great question and a very difficult one to answer in a forum setting.

    Mark Knapp esq. has recently offering a class in the legal aspects of arming oneself foe self protection.

    http://www.firearmslawyer.net/ Just go to his website and give him a call to get started.

    Since you are asking this question I must asked are you carrying now? If one is then it can be hazardous to you and your family physically and financially if a wrong choice is made.

    The short of it you can use your firearm "When You Are in Fear for Your Life or the Life of another" until you can gain a background in tactics and the law.

    Here is a link to several very good articles or videos that may help http://www.packing4life.com/showthread.php?t=2284 and I am sure some will be surprised.

    Again I commend you for your post, honesty and wiliness to seek out training to get up and running soon..

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    Read this: Defending the Self Defense Case.

    This article is a starting point for attorneys representing clients in a self-defense case. It is focused on the common law of self-defense, using Massachusetts as its primary example, but the general principles are applicable in any state. It also introduces attorneys to some of the research regarding use of force conducted by police and self-defense instructors.
    It really is quite detailed in its explanation of justifiable force.

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    Thanks for posting that reference. That was pretty good.

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    Well let's see, you can draw or shoot on cemetery grounds, holy ground, play grounds, but you probably should do either on school grounds.

    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate
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    kchau wrote:
    I understand most other things about owning and carrying a gun around, what I dont understand is on what grounds can we draw and/or fire, with you as the target, and you as a bystander.

    thank you
    You also want to re-word your question a bit. Change that from "when can we draw" to "I"..... because the reality is it's between you and the courts if something happens....

    Don't get me wrong, there are tons of great people on this board who will show up and support you during trail, give advice, and even chip in a few bucks for a lawyer.

    All i'm saying is it's your rear in the hot seat (and nobody else's) when you decide to take action. A prosecutor isn't going to give a rip that user XYZ on opencarry.org told you that drawing in ABC scenario was ok.

    So let others guide you where to read and research, even pay a lawyer for an hour of his/her time, but come to your OWN conclusions on what you're comfortable with doing. At the end of the day, you and only you are accountable for your actions, so make sure you're 100% ok with what you're prepared to do.

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    joeroket wrote:
    Well let's see, you can draw or shoot on cemetery grounds, holy ground, play grounds, but you probably should do either on school grounds.

    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate
    I don't think you can on holy ground. Oh wait, that's Highlander.


    Every situation is different. That's why you'll see responsible people react to a news story with, "I'll wait for more information before passing judgment." Unless the person shot is a career criminal. Then you get one of these. :celebrate
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    Get "In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection" by Massad Ayoob. It's a good place to start until you can take a use of force class.

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    My view is this:

    Are they going to take your wallet? Your car?

    Me, personally, I'd hand it over; I can cancel the cards inside or report the car stolen and no one gets hurt (at least around me.) Cash can be re-earned, my car is insured. It sucks but I don't want to either:

    a) Harm anyone who I don't have to
    b) Some d-bag DA could run with that and have your backside.

    Are they going to take your life? The life of your family?

    a) Take theirs first.

    EDIT: Also, check out the "Washington State Castle Doctrine" and "Justifiable Homicide."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_...tes#Washington (Washington's Castle Doctrine. You can follow the cites to see the actual laws.)

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.040 (RCW: Justifiable Homicide)
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Correction, Washington State is a Stand Your Ground State, where you can defend yourself wherever you are legally allowed to be.

    A step better then the average Castle Doctrine.

    It appears to have been addressed here http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/15977.html
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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