• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

On What grounds can we draw and on what grounds can we open fire

K

kchau

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
53
Location
Renton, Washington, USA
imported post

I understand most other things about owning and carrying a gun around, what I dont understand is on what grounds can we draw and/or fire, with you as the target, and you as a bystander.

thank you
 
9

911Boss

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
753
Location
Gone... Nutty as squirrel **** around here
imported post

That's the $64,000 question...

I'd suggest reading the relevant RCW's, reading some related case files and court opinions, then you should have a pretty good idea. While there are a few "black and white" answers, there are very few "black and white" situations. The world is filled with gray and everything you do will be dissected and analyzed in the bright light of day. A split-second decision you made will be gone over for hours and hours.

Anytime you resort to deadly force, you put yourself in legal jeopardy. Even if you do everything "right" as you may still be charged and/or sued. Even if you win, you will have spent a lot of money to defend yourself.

It is not to be taken lightly.
 
BigIrish

BigIrish

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
76
Location
edmonds, wa, ,
imported post

The way I understand it, it is a tricky thing!:cuss: you can draw if you or another person is in serious body injury or death, or if the person is in the ACT of a felony. That said I also beleve that any ordanary person would feel the same. ( if I we're there would I react the same way, or if I felt my or anothers around me is in danger for they're life )

On my interpritation and understanding.......read the RCW'S carefuly
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
imported post

kchau wrote:
I understand most other things about owning and carrying a gun around, what I dont understand is on what grounds can we draw and/or fire, with you as the target, and you as a bystander.

thank you
Click to expand...
"I know it when I see it," to steal a quote from Justice Potter Stewart
 
D

Django

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
16
Location
Tacoma, WA, ,
imported post

Also look into U.S. Court of Appeals, 9th Circuit. This is not good for anyone (law enforcement included) that shoots and injures another person.... get a good lawyer.
 
amzbrady

amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
imported post

I have also asked this very question when I first got on here. I wish there were some definite answers.As said though, every case is different. I always wondered, since I am short and not as agile as I used to be and have been sober for years now I also have found what pain is, I dont like it. I would like to think that I could draw to deter someone from beating me to a pulp, but it seems like there is an amount of blood loss that must occure first. just how close to death you must be, before drawing a weapon is anybodies guess. I also think I read that weapons must be equal in deadly force before you can draw. I know I have also read that if someone has beaten, stabbed and robbed you that you can not shoot them if they are running away from you.
 
BigDave

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
imported post

kchau wrote:
I understand most other things about owning and carrying a gun around, what I dont understand is on what grounds can we draw and/or fire, with you as the target, and you as a bystander.

thank you
Click to expand...
What a great question and a very difficult one to answer in a forum setting.

Mark Knapp esq. has recently offering a class in the legal aspects of arming oneself foe self protection.

http://www.firearmslawyer.net/ Just go to his website and give him a call to get started.

Since you are asking this question I must asked are you carrying now? If one is then it can be hazardous to you and your family physically and financially if a wrong choice is made.

The short of it you can use your firearm "When You Are in Fear for Your Life or the Life of another" until you can gain a background in tactics and the law.

Here is a link to several very good articles or videos that may help http://www.packing4life.com/showthread.php?t=2284 and I am sure some will be surprised.

Again I commend you for your post, honesty and wiliness to seek out training to get up and running soon..

Big Dave
 
D

deanf

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
1,789
Location
N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
imported post

Read this: Defending the Self Defense Case.

This article is a starting point for attorneys representing clients in a self-defense case. It is focused on the common law of self-defense, using Massachusetts as its primary example, but the general principles are applicable in any state. It also introduces attorneys to some of the research regarding use of force conducted by police and self-defense instructors.
Click to expand...

It really is quite detailed in its explanation of justifiable force.
 
E

erps

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
265
Location
, ,
imported post

Thanks for posting that reference. That was pretty good.
 
J

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

Well let's see, you can draw or shoot on cemetery grounds, holy ground, play grounds, but you probably should do either on school grounds.

:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate
 
J

jddssc121

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
282
Location
, ,
imported post

kchau wrote:
I understand most other things about owning and carrying a gun around, what I dont understand is on what grounds can we draw and/or fire, with you as the target, and you as a bystander.

thank you
Click to expand...

You also want to re-word your question a bit. Change that from "when can we draw" to "I"..... because the reality is it's between you and the courts if something happens....

Don't get me wrong, there are tons of great people on this board who will show up and support you during trail, give advice, and even chip in a few bucks for a lawyer.

All i'm saying is it's your rear in the hot seat (and nobody else's) when you decide to take action. A prosecutor isn't going to give a rip that user XYZ on opencarry.org told you that drawing in ABC scenario was ok.

So let others guide you where to read and research, even pay a lawyer for an hour of his/her time, but come to your OWN conclusions on what you're comfortable with doing. At the end of the day, you and only you are accountable for your actions, so make sure you're 100% ok with what you're prepared to do.
 
gsx1138

gsx1138

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
882
Location
Bremerton, Washington, United States
imported post

joeroket wrote:
Well let's see, you can draw or shoot on cemetery grounds, holy ground, play grounds, but you probably should do either on school grounds.

:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate
Click to expand...
I don't think you can on holy ground. Oh wait, that's Highlander.


Every situation is different. That's why you'll see responsible people react to a news story with, "I'll wait for more information before passing judgment." Unless the person shot is a career criminal. Then you get one of these. :celebrate
 
R

Ruger9mm

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
55
Location
Caldwell ID
imported post

Get "In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection" by Massad Ayoob. It's a good place to start until you can take a use of force class.
 
killchain

killchain

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
788
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
imported post

My view is this:

Are they going to take your wallet? Your car?

Me, personally, I'd hand it over; I can cancel the cards inside or report the car stolen and no one gets hurt (at least around me.) Cash can be re-earned, my car is insured. It sucks but I don't want to either:

a) Harm anyone who I don't have to
b) Some d-bag DA could run with that and have your backside.

Are they going to take your life? The life of your family?

a) Take theirs first.

EDIT: Also, check out the "Washington State Castle Doctrine" and "Justifiable Homicide."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine_in_the_United_States#Washington (Washington's Castle Doctrine. You can follow the cites to see the actual laws.)

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.040 (RCW: Justifiable Homicide)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top