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Thread: detained and released in Southgate

  1. #1
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    Was at Buffalo Wild Wings in Southgate on Eureka rd near Trenton.With my son and 5 friends. Was detained as the result of a citizen (read sheeple) complaint MWAG call. Was released, side arm returned. I was issued a ticket for a knife i was carrying, No further public comment at this time. Would be interested in pm or phone call from any of our legal beagles on the forum. Thank you in advance.

    P.S. Hello Murphy ! ! !



    :celebrateChuckWagon of the S.M.V.M.

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    Not looking for any more info, but I'm guessing the knife was in your pocket and their search won't hold up if the reason for them stopping you was your gun alone.

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    ChuckWagon-SMVM wrote:
    Was at Buffalo Wild Wings in Southgate on Eureka rd near Trenton.With my son and 5 friends. Was detained as the result of a citizen (read sheeple) complaint MWAG call. Was released, side arm returned. I was issued a ticket for a knife i was carrying, No further public comment at this time. Would be interested in pm or phone call from any of our legal beagles on the forum. Thank you in advance.

    P.S. Hello Murphy ! ! !



    :celebrateChuckWagon of the S.M.V.M.
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

    Edited to remove irrelevant information


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    craigm wrote:
    Not looking for any more info, but I'm guessing the knife was in your pocket and their search won't hold up if the reason for them stopping you was your gun alone.
    even if the knife is of illegal length of type it is fruit of the poisonous tree, and the charge should be dropped!
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    Don't quote me on this, but I think even if you had a live grenade in your pocket, the charges would not hold as your 4th Amendment was violated.

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    good job keeping the details quiet until after you have contacted a lawyer.

    sorry to hear about your ordeal.

    It should work out ok for you in the end.....

    are you working on your foia request today?

    did you have a recorder going?

    don't take this next part the wrong way....

    how did he end up looking in your pockets anyhow?

    I have heard several people when asked "do you have any other weapons"

    and their reply is "yes, i have a knife in my pocket"

    A better response is either no response at all, or a refusal to consent to any search or seizure.

    /rant off
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    ETA-2: I've been advised thisincident was notin Westland.



    You should just delete your post as it muddy's the water.

    Here is the law for Southgate:

    692.02 DANGEROUS WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
    (a) No person shall, in the City, possess any machine gun, sawed off shotgun, any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, sling shot, sand club, sandbag, switchblade knife or metal knuckles, or any instrument, attachment or appliance for causing the firing of any firearm to be silent or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any firearm, except as otherwise permitted by law.

    (1974 Code Sec. 9.69)

    (b) No person shall, while within the City, possess, with intent to use unlawfully against another or to use in an unlawful manner, whether directed at a person or object, any imitation pistol, dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, knife, bow, bow and arrow, arrow or other dangerous instrument or instrumentality.

    (Ord. 551. Passed 2-23-94.)

    692.03 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.
    No person shall have or carry any pistol, knife, dirk, knuckles, sling shot or other dangerous weapon concealed on his or her person.

    (Ord. 405. Passed 1-23-85.)

    692.04 WEAPONS IN VEHICLES.
    No person shall have or carry any pistol, knife, dirk, knuckles, sling shot or dangerous weapon, concealed or otherwise, in any vehicle operated or occupied by him or her.

    (Ord. 405. Passed 1-23-85.)
    http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.d...l:southgate_mi

    edit added:
    whoever violates or fails to comply with any such provision shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars ($500.00) or imprisoned not more than ninety days, or both, for each offense.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    And this is why I always carry a knife in a sheath or holster rather than my pocket anymore. ESP when carrying a gun. That way it is NOT concealed. I also make sure I know the knife laws for the are I will be traveling in as they are diff in each city/town.

    EDITED to add ... I see some unenforceable ord. there that need to be removed!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Any hope to get State preemption like we have with firearms?

  10. #10
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Hard to say but first there has to be enough people asking their legislature for it.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  11. #11
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    Call Dean Greenblatt. He will happily give you free advice.

    When are we going to have a meeting in Southgate?
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    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    Any hope to get State preemption like we have with firearms?
    Welcome to OCDO

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    FatboyCykes wrote:
    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    Any hope to get State preemption like we have with firearms?
    Welcome to OCDO
    Thanks, hope to OC for the first time soon. Need to get a OWB holster.

  14. #14
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    dougwg wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    ETA-2: I've been advised thisincident was notin Westland.



    You should just delete your post as it muddy's the water.

    Here is the law for Southgate:

    692.02 DANGEROUS WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
    (a) No person shall, in the City, possess any machine gun, sawed off shotgun, any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, sling shot, sand club, sandbag, switchblade knife or metal knuckles, or any instrument, attachment or appliance for causing the firing of any firearm to be silent or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any firearm, except as otherwise permitted by law.

    (1974 Code Sec. 9.69)

    (b) No person shall, while within the City, possess, with intent to use unlawfully against another or to use in an unlawful manner, whether directed at a person or object, any imitation pistol, dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, knife, bow, bow and arrow, arrow or other dangerous instrument or instrumentality.

    (Ord. 551. Passed 2-23-94.)

    692.03 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.
    No person shall have or carry any pistol, knife, dirk, knuckles, sling shot or other dangerous weapon concealed on his or her person.

    (Ord. 405. Passed 1-23-85.)

    692.04 WEAPONS IN VEHICLES.
    No person shall have or carry any pistol, knife, dirk, knuckles, sling shot or dangerous weapon, concealed or otherwise, in any vehicle operated or occupied by him or her.

    (Ord. 405. Passed 1-23-85.)
    http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.d...l:southgate_mi

    edit added:
    whoever violates or fails to comply with any such provision shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars ($500.00) or imprisoned not more than ninety days, or both, for each offense.
    But as people have stated the stop was unlawful so any search after that is inadmissible and this citation should be dropped. Unless he consented to the search which I hope to god he didn't.

    This is just an example of an ******* LEO that has to find something to try and discourage OC. Assbag!
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  15. #15
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    but we don't have all the infoso.....

  16. #16
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    dougwg wrote:
    but we don't have all the infoso.....
    Then let's make some up.

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    I had a chat with the owner of ram horn on fort st about having an oc meet and eat there he said he would research it and let me know will post what he says that was on friday.

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Viper068 wrote:
    I had a chat with the owner of ram horn on fort st about having an oc meet and eat there he said he would research it and let me know will post what he says that was on friday.
    Research what?
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

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  19. #19
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    That is why I contend asking permission is not a good idea... I have gone back and forth on this but have settled on the fact that asking permission to do something perfectly legal is just foolish and tends to lead to being told no out of hand without them ever getting to see what a non issue it really is!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  20. #20
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    That is why I contend asking permission is not a good idea... I have gone back and forth on this but have settled on the fact that asking permission to do something perfectly legal is just foolish and tends to lead to being told no out of hand without them ever getting to see what a non issue it really is!
    +1

    Asking permission leaves waaaaaay too much room for error (denial). e.g. I don't call my local PD and ask permission to drive to the store.

  21. #21
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    That is why I contend asking permission is not a good idea... I have gone back and forth on this but have settled on the fact that asking permission to do something perfectly legal is just foolish and tends to lead to being told no out of hand without them ever getting to see what a non issue it really is!
    1.I talk to the guy all the time so it was in polite conversation.
    2.He was not aware oc was legal gave hem a trifold and sent hem here said he would check it out.
    3.If he calls SGPD and they say it is not legal then they need a lot more training to get them up to speed.
    4.privet property rules win just saying.

  22. #22
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Yes private property rules are king. However why ask permission to do something that is perfectly legal? I have come to the conclusion that just showing up OCing and being ready to answer questions if they are asked is the better way to go.

    That way they get to see that none of there other customers freak out and that you are the same nice normal person you always have been. And that the only diff is a gun on your hip.

    And if they ask you to leave ... just leave it is that simple.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  23. #23
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Viper068 wrote:
    I had a chat with the owner of ram horn on fort st about having an oc meet and eat there he said he would research it and let me know will post what he says that was on friday.
    While this guy is doing his "research", I hope you have scheduled it somewhere else, preferably just down the street from him. That way, when he calls back, no matter what his decision, you can tell him while he was doing his "research", his competitornext doorgot the group's business this time around. But leave the door open for him if he says OC is welcome.

    It really sucks when you're a business owner and your competitors get your customers due to your own ignorance. It will really drive the lesson home for this guy, if he's smart, and future OC group requests will be met with an IMMEDIATE welcome.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

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  24. #24
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    Most Michigan knife laws that I'm aware of contain the "intent" proviso. I believe that is something that must be proven in court. And oh yeah, don't talk to the police.

    Carry on





  25. #25
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    Went to court today DISMISSED !!!


    stay tuned :celebrate


    pog mo thoin Murphy !

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