Open Letter to all members of Michigan Open Carry

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To all members of Michigan Open Carry,

For those of you who are upset and angry over my post and have stated through posting, email, or voicemail that you expect a public apology and for me to remove the thread immediately, I will not. I did not attack anyone on a personal level and will never stoop to that level. If you are a leader and don't feel comfortable OCing, or do not have the time to donate due to other obligations I understand, however you need to reconsider if you are right for the position. I find it sad that several leaders feel it is okay for them not to OC as much as is possible. This is in direct contradiction to the goals and ideals of what MOC was founded on. I will not support that mind set nor can I allow myself to be led by those who feel its okay to not OC as a leader of MOC. Therefore effective immediately I resign my position of SE Coordinator. I will continue to fight for second amendment rights as I have my entire life. I will continue doing interviews with the media. Seeing as my views of OCing do not coincide with the leadership of MOC I will refrain from referring to the organization in any future interviews. This group has turned away dedicated individuals before me and is continuing to do so. I hope that leadership of the group will realize the only way to lead is by example. The derogatory voicemails and threats of personal attacks against me are uncalled for. My post addressed issues of open carrying, not once attacking someone as a person. Any future communications with me may be done via email at sprinklerguy28@yahoo.com.

Sincerely,
Scott Webb

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I would like to be the first to ask you to re-consider and try to let the BS roll off your back.

I think you are a huge asset to MOC Inc. and the OC movement in general.

Personally I thank you for your efforts.

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dougwg wrote:

I would like to be the first to ask you to re-consider and try to let the BS roll off your back.

I think you are a huge asset to MOC Inc. and the OC movement in general.

Personally I thank you for your efforts.

 

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I am very sad that sprinklerguy28 has decided to resign. With that being said, there is no "BS is to roll off his back". An elected board member has openly admitted to NEVER open carrying. That is not BS.

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I too feel you should reconsider Scott! It's ok to walk back the cat! I know I have had to do more times then I care to remember.

You have been doing a great job on the east side and we need people like you!

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Scott,

Your past efforts are appreciated regardless of your decision. This is truly an unfortunateday for MOC should you choose to part paths.Your passion is admirable, your dedication is honorable; it is unfortunate that your temper remains on a hair-trigger.

Whatever direction you walk Scott, on whatever journey in life it may be, walk it with a cautious step, don't let you anger get the best of you. Remember the 24 hour rule and you will be fine.

Should you have second thoughts about this, please do not be embarrased to let us know. I can only speak for myself at this point, but I believe we can move forward past this as patriots and men.

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Scott,

Whatever you do, I hope youkeep all of us (MOC or not) informedof your get-togethers and stayinvolved with others' get-togethers (MOC or not). Sounds like you will.It's fine if you stay in MOC and advocate for change from the inside (or run for a leadership role), but it's fine too if you don't. Open carry involvement comes first. . . membership,non-membership, agreements, disagreements, etc.withinincorporated organizationsis way down on mylist. That's my view.

Hope to be seein' ya soon!

Dan

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Shall I refuse my dinner because I do not fully understand the process of digestion?
Oliver Heaviside (1850-1925) English physicist.

In other words, is it absolutely necessary that all elected officers and membership are required to OC 24/7/365, if at all, to be productive representatives of MOC? I think not. As most of you know, there's much more to the objectives of MOC, Inc. then just walking around with a holstered pistol on your side. We have MOC members who, for reasons beyond their control, do not OC. Does that mean they are not worthy enough to bepart of the organization? No, of course not. Think about it folks.

And Scott, please reconsider your resignation.

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I have to say that since meeting Scott I've become much more active in my 2A volunteering activities. Just in the short time I've known him I can say I've learned a lot more from him in the few discussions we've had then the totality of all my experiences with 2A and open carry in general. I can trulely say that I've never met someone with such dedication to a cause. I hope to learn more from him in the future.

I donate a lot of time even though I don't have any extra and I've also started spending more money then I thought I would by driving across the state and printing out fliers. Even though this has got me in to arguments with my wife
I've managed to work out a budget and understanding from my family and they're supporting me. I'm going to continue and am never going to stop. I don't ask for anything in return because I'm not doing this because I want something in return. I do it because it makes me feel good and that I can make a difference.

As for MOC Inc. I don't know how much longer I can support this organization and that is why I've stated the below message.

I'm suppose to be working so I will keep this brief.


I see many problems with MOC from an organizational perspective. If the board is serious about taking MOC to the next level I would like to suggest planning an open meeting in a central location at a date that works for most people to discuss these issues. Listen we're all here fighting for the same cause and if the board is serious they will take heed as to what's being said and take actions to resolve them without resorting to personal attacks. There needs to be dialog between the members of the board and the members of MOC and I feel that it is quite lacking and that in itself is half the problem.

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I have not and will not say everyone needs to OC all the time. However when leadership openly admits to never OCing or does not OC until others arrive is unacceptable. Even more unacceptable was the threats made to me by several people. I can look past almost anything. Jeff, this is not a action based on quick temper so your 24hr rule is irrelevant. I will always support OC, take on legal battles with cities, and organize events. I would have loved to do this in stride with MOC. However, with the threats made to me in private which will never be stated or posted publicly caused me to lose respect for MOC. On MOC's website I encourage all of you to read the objectives and methods on the home page. I voiced my concern in these not being followed by our leadership as a whole. As individuals the board is full of great people, I just felt they were not leading by example and those who vote to elect them had a right to hear since not all can be everywhere to see. When new members show up to an event and are not able to locate the group because leadership is not OCing, this is a major concern. I can not agree with leadership never OCing. This does not make these people bad people, but I do question the ability to lead an open carry group. How can you advocate open carry and encourage others to follow when you do not practice what you preach? Would you take sky diving lessons from someone who has never or chooses not to jump out of a plane? For the pm's I have already received in support I thank all of you. I am not going anywhere. I will not stop fighting for our rights. It was a decision based on the comments made to me in private, that I feel I would not be able to continue to work in a positive manner with some of the leadership. To not be a cohesive leadership group would be detrimental and a disservice to all of you.

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mikestilly wrote:

I have to say that since meeting Scott I've become much more active in my 2A volunteering activities. Just in the short time I've known him I can say I've learned a lot more from him in the few discussions we've had then the totality of all my experiences with 2A and open carry in general. I can trulely say that I've never met someone with such dedication to a cause. I hope to learn more from him in the future.

I'm suppose to be working so I will keep this brief.


I see many problems with MOC from an organizational perspective. If the board is serious about taking MOC to the next level I would like to suggest planning an open meeting in a central location at a date that works for most people to discuss these issues. Listen we're all here fighting for the same cause and if the board is serious they will take heed as to what's being said and take actions to resolve them without resorting to personal attacks. There needs to be dialog between the members of the board and the members of MOC and I feel that it is quite lacking and that in itself is half the problem.

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Note refuting what you are saying Mike. BUT dialog goes both ways. And our email addresses are listed on the MOC website and we all have accounts here with PM available.

If people have a concern there are many ways to contact the MOC leadership.

Only a few people have emailed or PMed me and unless I know about a concern I cannot do anything about it. I would imagine this is the same for the board members as well.

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If someone or several people threatened you, we(read: members of MOC Inc. and the owners of OCDO) NEED to know who these people are and they need to be dealt with accordingly.

There should be no tolerance for that type of behavior.

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autosurgeon wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

I have to say that since meeting Scott I've become much more active in my 2A volunteering activities. Just in the short time I've known him I can say I've learned a lot more from him in the few discussions we've had then the totality of all my experiences with 2A and open carry in general. I can trulely say that I've never met someone with such dedication to a cause. I hope to learn more from him in the future.

I'm suppose to be working so I will keep this brief.


I see many problems with MOC from an organizational perspective. If the board is serious about taking MOC to the next level I would like to suggest planning an open meeting in a central location at a date that works for most people to discuss these issues. Listen we're all here fighting for the same cause and if the board is serious they will take heed as to what's being said and take actions to resolve them without resorting to personal attacks. There needs to be dialog between the members of the board and the members of MOC and I feel that it is quite lacking and that in itself is half the problem.

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Note refuting what you are saying Mike. BUT dialog goes both ways. And our email addresses are listed on the MOC website and we all have accounts here with PM available.

If people have a concern there are many ways to contact the MOC leadership.

Only a few people have emailed or PMed me and unless I know about a concern I cannot do anything about it. I would imagine this is the same for the board members as well.

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Well I hate to break it to you but informal emails is not the way to communicate consistently or professionally. Many times emails fall on deaf ears. I've myself voiced long emails to the board email address which I assume is everyone and received very little to none response in return. Matter of fact I've sent many detailed emails. The leadership of MOC Inc I feel has a lot to learn and is burning bridges with it's most active followers.

If personal attacks were made by members of the board toward an active member I feel those members of the board should be removed from their posts.

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I am not now and have never been a member of MOC. Lest that deter folks from reading further please understand that in order for an organization to encourage increased membership that organization must have credibility...

And in order to be looked upon as credible by the public an organization must hold true to it's goals while it's leaders practice what they preach.

Any anti can, and will, seize upon an organizations leadership not practicing what they preach in order to smear the entire organization and it's goals. And that tactic will work too.

Please note that I am not singling out any individuals nor am I unsympathetic to the circumstances that individuals have to deal with in life.

I am simply stating that for an organization to be looked upon as credible and for it's goals and beliefs to be looked upon as valid and worthy of respect... then it's leaders first must be true to the organizations founding principles.

If MOC wishes to grow, be effective, and be recognized as a legitimate pro rights organization then it's leadership must..... lead.... especially by example.

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dougwg wrote:

If someone or several people threatened you, we(read: members of MOC Inc. and the owners of OCDO) NEED to know who these people are and they need to be dealt with accordingly.

There should be no tolerance for that type of behavior.

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I agree with this as well!

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I feel the board members who made personal attacks against a member of the MOC should all admit responsibility immediately and action should be taken. If this is not done I will no longer support Michigan Open Carry.

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I for one will respond to any mail I receive whether via email,PM or snail mail. I may not have the answer but I will respond.

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mikestilly wrote:

I feel the board members who made personal attacks against a member of the MOC should all admit responsibility immediately and action should be taken. If this is not done I will no longer support Michigan Open Carry.

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i agree.

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Hey how about using teamspeak as a form of communication. Or if the there is going to be vote,then email the members and ask them for there input before you vote, that way you know what your members want !


I for one, am tired of all this bickering and feuding, and the best t way to solve the problem is to COMMUNICATE.

I offered in the beginning, to solve all of the I T issues using my son, who is a I T person but was told no thanks. So here we sit with NO (I T)

And yes he is only 25 but he is 1 of 2 in the state that has his qualifications.

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This is in the works Mastiff. We already use it for internal discussions and general skull sessions.

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mikestilly wrote:

I see many problems with MOC from an organizational perspective. If the board is serious about taking MOC to the next level I would like to suggest planning an open meeting in a central location at a date that works for most people to discuss these issues. Listen we're all here fighting for the same cause and if the board is serious they will take heed as to what's being said and take actions to resolve them without resorting to personal attacks. There needs to be dialog between the members of the board and the members of MOC and I feel that it is quite lacking and that in itself is half the problem.

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I'm serious about my above quote. The #1 issue I see is very poor communication specifically with paying members. I tend to get the feeling that the full board doesn't want to do the above for some reason. Confronting the brutal facts is a key for any organization to be successful.

As for it being a misunderstanding yeah thats very possible but the underlying problem is that nasty/unprofessional things were happening behind the scenes which kinda negates the possibilities of resolving a misunderstanding. Like I said above communication, communication, communication.

If the board is unable to address the underlying issues then everything I say or do it fruitless.


Mike

PS: if you would like to discuss this further dont hesitate to pm me.